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Supreme Court turns down NJ hollow point ban/restriction case

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Bet you didn't know this one was in play.

 

Brian Aitken brought his case to the US Supreme Court. He wanted to overturn NJ's ban on hollow point ammo.

 

Today the order list is out, and certiorari was denied. So it looks like NJ's hollow point ban/restriction stands (for now). 

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What do you expect this is just another example of "common sense" gun laws.  We all know that a hollow point .22LR is so much more deadly than a round nose .45 acp round :)

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Ryan,

 

Thank you for the update.  Since following the SCOTUS threads on this forum, I can only conclude that the SCOTUS does not give a rats as_ about the 2A supporters in the State of New Jersey.

 

Just another kick in the pants......

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Ryan,

 

Thank you for the update.  Since following the SCOTUS threads on this forum, I can only conclude that the SCOTUS does not give a rats as_ about the 2A supporters in the State of New Jersey.

 

Just another kick in the pants......

After reading some of the Open Carry related threads here, I am beginning to suspect that We, The People of NJ do not support 2A. We get what we elect and deserve.  Add to it that, over the period of time, NJ had been very clever in crafting laws, like we are an "issue" state, but we don't.   We would have been lot better if our rulers were just dumb and ban things all together.

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It is also a rather silly lawsuit. Sorry, but it isn't the SCOTUS's job to save us from every dumb law.  Realistically hollow point ammo can be owned and used in NJ, its issue is transportation. Yes it is a dumb law, but in the great scheme of things it is the least of our problems. 

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It is also a rather silly lawsuit. Sorry, but it isn't the SCOTUS's job to save us from every dumb law.  Realistically hollow point ammo can be owned and used in NJ, its issue is transportation. Yes it is a dumb law, but in the great scheme of things it is the least of our problems. 

If you could please elaborate on the issue of HP ammo and its transportation, I would really appreciate it.  Just curious and looking to gain some knowledge.  I reload my own pistol ammo and do use HP bullets.  Is there any restriction with transporting those to the range and back?  Are there are other transportation restrictions of HP ammo?  I'm curious to know.  Thank you, in advance! :)

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The short version is treat HP ammo like you treat your guns. You can own it. You can take it to the range and shoot it. You can buy it at the store and take it straight home. What you can not do is drive around with it in your trunk when you go food shopping or whatever.  The Aitken issue is that in theory there is no exception from moving, ie transporting it from old domicile to new domicile. 

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There are those HERE that preach driving to a range's parking lot before taking HP ammo from your old residence to your new residence.  I think that's a sign of tin foil hat wearing myself.  The INTENT of the law was preserved, namely don't drive around aimlessly, for a month or more, while in the process of moving, with HP ammo.  And don't have your Mom call the Cops on you because you're acting despondent and might hurt yourself.........

 

Just sayin......

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Here we go again.

 

If you really read the law, you can take HP ammo to the range, but there is no provision in the law legalizing taking the ammo from the range back to your house if you don't shoot it all.

 

Now has anyone ever been prosecuted over this?  Not to my knowledge.  But it's a felony if you bring it back, nothing to sneeze at.

 

So you can buy it, immediately take it directly home, and keep it there forever, take it to the range, but don't bring it back.  Don't bring it anywhere else.  Don't bring it when you move.  The stuff can never leave the house again or, if you bring it to the range, can never leave the range.  Reasonable?  More like ridiculous.

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Here we go again.

 

If you really read the law, you can take HP ammo to the range, but there is no provision in the law legalizing taking the ammo from the range back to your house if you don't shoot it all.

 

Now has anyone ever been prosecuted over this?  Not to my knowledge.  But it's a felony if you bring it back, nothing to sneeze at.

 

So you can buy it, immediately take it directly home, and keep it there forever, take it to the range, but don't bring it back.  Don't bring it anywhere else.  Don't bring it when you move.  The stuff can never leave the house again or, if you bring it to the range, can never leave the range.  Reasonable?  More like ridiculous.

 

 

Brian Aitken has, hence the reason for this lawsuit. 

 

Yes, I know some people want to be judge jury and executioner, and say he was an idiot for driving around with guns in his trunk. But the courts dropped all of the charges except for the hollow points. 

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Are the leaders of NJ stupid or what? Everyone knows that hollow points are safer as they minimize the risk of over penetration, need to shoot a person many more times and less likely to penetrate as much as a FMJ. You would think that an anti-gun State like NJ would force its gun owners to use on JHP ammo. After all, most LEO use JHP all over the USA while our military uses FMJ. Why does NJ insist on using only military ammo for gun carriers? I have never understood this since almost every other State does not have a problem with JHP ammo for its concealed carriers.

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Err he got prosecuted for driving with it around while in theory "moving" for weeks. Not for driving back from the range to his house.

It doesn't matter. On appeal all charges were dropped except the hollow point ammo and that's specifically what was at issue here.

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I have read in numerous places that HP ammo is treated like a handgun in this state. We can supposedly drive around with a long gun in our trunk, and/or round nose ammo, as long as the gun is not loaded. But the same restrictions apply for HP ammo as for handguns.

 

Hollow points got a bad rep about 30-40 years ago, when the media labeled them as "cop killer bullets." 

 

You drop a dud round at the supermarket while fishing for your keys, the NJSP officer behind you notices: 5-10 years automatic. Someone else robs the store at gunpoint and gets arrested. He probably gets out before you.

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I have read in numerous places that HP ammo is treated like a handgun in this state. We can supposedly drive around with a long gun in our trunk, and/or round nose ammo, as long as the gun is not loaded. But the same restrictions apply for HP ammo as for handguns.

 

Hollow points got a bad rep about 30-40 years ago, when the media labeled them as "cop killer bullets."

 

You drop a dud round at the supermarket while fishing for your keys, the NJSP officer behind you notices: 5-10 years automatic. Someone else robs the store at gunpoint and gets arrested. He probably gets out before you.

Probably? Definitely.

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Are the leaders of NJ stupid or what? Everyone knows that hollow points are safer as they minimize the risk of over penetration, need to shoot a person many more times and less likely to penetrate as much as a FMJ. You would think that an anti-gun State like NJ would force its gun owners to use on JHP ammo. After all, most LEO use JHP all over the USA while our military uses FMJ. Why does NJ insist on using only military ammo for gun carriers? I have never understood this since almost every other State does not have a problem with JHP ammo for its concealed carriers.

These are the same people that say a magazine change allows for enough time to tackle an active shooter. Yes, they are stupid.

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These are the same people that say a magazine change allows for enough time to tackle an active shooter. Yes, they are stupid.

Of course a magazine change allows for enough time to tackle the shooter, if you're Charles "bootielicious" Mainer, who has said it takes 20 seconds to change a mag.

 

You believe him, don't you?

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I lived in and out of NJ for over 40 years with the hope it would get better. It only got worse and worse over time so I moved to Florida. I do not see NJ ever getting more pro gun.  Too close to NYC and too liberal.  The big differences between here and there is:

 

- Pro gun State

- Pro gun population majority

- Real Republican politicians, not democrats in disguise.

- instead of the pro gun people constantly trying to squash or limit anti gun laws, here the anti gun people occasionally try to change all our great pro gun laws.

- In NJ gun owners are on the defense. Here they are on the offense proposing legislation to increase our gun rights.

 

Big difference that took me a while to absorb. When I first moved here I used to walk into one of the 8 local guns stores and ask them if the item I was interested in was legal. They always gave me a funny look. Hey, I could not buy a 100 round magazine in NJ so I did not know any better. :)

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Is there any chance we can ever vote out a change in our lifetimes or is escape from nj the only option ?

 

I doubt it. NJ laws are designed to make the most productive members of the population want to leave the state and attract less productive residents. It's slow, but people really are moving out of the state. NJ lost a congressional seat in 1990 and just lost another one in 2010.

 

Is there hope? In my lifetime? I don't believe so.

 

It took Rome more than 1000 years to recover. Detroit is still in a population death spiral. One problem with moving is where to move --  Pennsylvania is turning from red to purple, as is Virginia. We need to move to West Virginia and west, and to North Carolina and south to find America now.

 

Population_of_Rome.png

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when I see futeristic yrs like 2025, 2035 etc it reminds me of those sci-fi movies when the country is made up of different districts/zones. Some zones are well to do with a happy healthy populace and others are poor submissive jackbooted peasants. Guess where NJ will be?.

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I lived in and out of NJ for over 40 years with the hope it would get better. It only got worse and worse over time so I moved to Florida. I do not see NJ ever getting more pro gun. Too close to NYC and too liberal. The big differences between here and there is:

 

- Pro gun State

- Pro gun population majority

- Real Republican politicians, not democrats in disguise.

- instead of the pro gun people constantly trying to squash or limit anti gun laws, here the anti gun people occasionally try to change all our great pro gun laws.

- In NJ gun owners are on the defense. Here they are on the offense proposing legislation to increase our gun rights.

 

Big difference that took me a while to absorb. When I first moved here I used to walk into one of the 8 local guns stores and ask them if the item I was interested in was legal. They always gave me a funny look. Hey, I could not buy a 100 round magazine in NJ so I did not know any better. :)

Yep. The gf and I have been looking for a house since last Aug. Heading down again next week to look at a few.

 

I can't wait to leave this shithole!

 

Hey Old Dog, one piece of legislation you guys need to push was recently signed into law in 2 other states.

 

A law that compels CLEO to sign off on all NFA applications if the individual qualifies.

 

I've been told if the ATF does change the rules on trusts needing a sign off, the CLEO in the county we're looking in wont sign. :(

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when I see futeristic yrs like 2025, 2035 etc it reminds me of those sci-fi movies when the country is made up of different districts/zones. Some zones are well to do with a happy healthy populace and others are poor submissive jackbooted peasants. Guess where NJ will be?.

NJ isnt going anywhere. Remember, large corporations (specially white collar) are establishments. And establishments dont like subjects exercising powerful rights such as 2A.   NJ/NY protects large establishments, large establishments pay money and gets people to work, those people pay taxes, NJ/NY gets tons of money. Rinse and repeat.

 

In fact, I see the decease to spreading to other states.  As the "companies" and "tech" spreads to likes of Austin, Denver, Dallas etc, so is Anti-2A sentiment.

 

So called Repubs haven't done anything to curb the decease. We are no better at the Fed level either. We had Bush for 8 years and that guy could get Patriot Act done but not one (other than letting AWB expire) pro 2A act. If national Repubs were so pro 2A, why dont we have a national carry law by now ? 

 

If things continue the way they are, long term (20, 50, 100, 200 years) outlook for 2A doesnt look good.

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