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Jfoster99

Are Rifles in Parades exempt?

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That's why I said, "Maybe it violates hunting regs."

 

I don't hunt nor do I have a hunting license.

That makes no difference, poachers don't have hunting licenses or hunt either. They poach, thats why you could be charged regardless of if your a hunter or not. The laws apply to everyone not just licenced hunters. Its like saying "I don't have a drivers license, so the rules of the road don't apply to me when I'm driving".

 

Conservation officers are just state troopers with tan uniforms and more authority then regular troopers. Odds of being stopped by one are slim, but the odds are good of being stopped by a cop that hunts, and knows this law. could get you a ticket.

 

I don't know if a regular cop could actually charge you with a game code violation though, they may not have the authority to. so maybe my argument is moot... 

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That makes no difference, poachers don't have hunting licenses or hunt either. They poach, thats why you could be charged regardless of if your a hunter or not. The laws apply to everyone not just licenced hunters. Its like saying "I don't have a drivers license, so the rules of the road don't apply to me when I'm driving".

 

Conservation officers are just state troopers with tan uniforms and more authority then regular troopers. Odds of being stopped by one are slim, but the odds are good of being stopped by a cop that hunts, and knows this law. could get you a ticket.

 

I don't know if a regular cop could actually charge you with a game code violation though, they may not have the authority to. so maybe my argument is moot... 

 

I thought this was discussed and settled (somewhat) many times ....

 

Nappen referring to transporting / possessing with FID, 00:40

 

 

I could be wrong..

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It's a $71 fine for the hunting violation, even if it applied to a non-wildlife situation. I doubt there will be door kicking because a cop saw your uncased AR Ina a gun rack

I definitely agree on that. Hunting violations are civil violations normally. Very few are actually criminal.

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You people have WAY too much time on yer hands to be splittin' hairs over the American Legion and VFW carrying Garands in Parades.  Please stop yer Keyboard Commando BS and read the laws for yourselves PRIOR to commenting.  Ryan J.'s fingers must be worn-out by now explaining the law to folks who won't use the search feature on this forum, lol!

 

And to the comment that was made about someone wishing that these men and women be cuffed while performing an educational and patriotic duty.......words cannot describe the level of douche-canoe you project yourself to be.

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^^^ regardless I'm still glad guys like Ryan are here to answer questions and bring up good points. Not everyone can read a statute and understand the interpretation. I deal with plumbing, residential, and commercial mechanical codes for a living. I spent 4 years in school beyond the 4 years I spent in college to learn how to read and interpret the laws that are contained in those code books. So I have an understanding of what I read when I look at firearms laws, but I don't know everything. Hell most lawyers probably don't understand half of it. Thankfully Ryan doesn't just ignore questions previously asked from other threads, that he has probably already answered. I appreciate it at least. And next time he wares out a keyboard I'll spring for a new one for him...

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Please show me the law where it says it has to be cased. Maybe it violates hunting regs, but if I have my AR, as long as it is unloaded and I have my FID it is legal, uncased or not. 

Is this what you're looking for?

 

2C:39-6

 

g. All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b.,

subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried

unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package,

or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the

course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under

the circumstances.

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Is this what you're looking for?

 

2C:39-6

 

g. All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b.,

subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried

unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package,

or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the

course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under

the circumstances.

thats for handguns i believe

 

so ryan in your non lawyer opinion, i can have an unloaded AR in a rifle rack in the back of my jeep? does it have to be in the back or can it also be in the back seat?

 

is there any regulations on carrying the ammo and mags with it too? like having the ammo already loaded in the mags and having them in the glove compartment?

 

thanks 

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I thought this was discussed and settled (somewhat) many times ....

 

Nappen referring to transporting / possessing with FID, 00:40

 

 

I could be wrong..

this actually answers my question, so i can basically have my AR on my lap when driving down the road

 

now whats considered loaded? can i have my mags loaded with ammo on the passenger seat or in the glove compartment or do they have to be in the back?

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So if we can have an unloading, uncased AR inside of our vehicles then what law says we cant walk around with an unloaded uncased AR on a public street? I know there is a reason we don't do open carry long arm demonstrations in this state.

If you didn't have a driveway. And you parked your car in the street in front of your house, would you have to bring your rifle from the front door to your vehicle cased then uncase it once your inside the vehicle? If not they why cant we walk around town with an AR on a sling unloaded, as long as a FIDcard is carried?

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So if we can have an unloading, uncased AR inside of our vehicles then what law says we cant walk around with an unloaded uncased AR on a public street? I know there is a reason we don't do open carry long arm demonstrations in this state.

If you didn't have a driveway. And you parked your car in the street in front of your house, would you have to bring your rifle from the front door to your vehicle cased then uncase it once your inside the vehicle? If not they why cant we walk around town with an AR on a sling unloaded, as long as a FIDcard is carried?

i think technically you can but youll probably be arrested and charged with disturbing the peace and a load of other crimes, and in a state in NJ the judge will probably agree with the charges 

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thats for handguns i believe

 

so ryan in your non lawyer opinion, i can have an unloaded AR in a rifle rack in the back of my jeep? does it have to be in the back or can it also be in the back seat?

 

is there any regulations on carrying the ammo and mags with it too? like having the ammo already loaded in the mags and having them in the glove compartment?

 

thanks

The statute says "all weapons" so if you ask me it means "all weapons" and not limited to just handguns.

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The use conservation officers on raids because they have more power

Please elaborate. IIRC police in NJ have jurisdiction in fish and game laws as they do in alcoholic beverage control, legalized games of chance, and a lot of other things not often discussed. What advantage is there to having a Conservation Officer on a raid?

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thats for handguns i believe

 

so ryan in your non lawyer opinion, i can have an unloaded AR in a rifle rack in the back of my jeep? does it have to be in the back or can it also be in the back seat?

 

is there any regulations on carrying the ammo and mags with it too? like having the ammo already loaded in the mags and having them in the glove compartment?

 

thanks 

 

In the video from Evan Nappen he says you can do it. He can offer legal advice, not me. :)

 

He did say that it is not advisable though, for obvious reasons. If a cop sees a gun, you're going to get pulled over, and you're going to have to explain why. You may even get arrested and sort it out with the judge. Hence, not advisable. 

 

Ammo in mags is a topic beaten to death here. Nappen says loaded mags "could" be construed as loaded firearm. Others here have said it's OK. I don't know. 

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^^^ regardless I'm still glad guys like Ryan are here to answer questions and bring up good points. Not everyone can read a statute and understand the interpretation. I deal with plumbing, residential, and commercial mechanical codes for a living. I spent 4 years in school beyond the 4 years I spent in college to learn how to read and interpret the laws that are contained in those code books. So I have an understanding of what I read when I look at firearms laws, but I don't know everything. Hell most lawyers probably don't understand half of it. Thankfully Ryan doesn't just ignore questions previously asked from other threads, that he has probably already answered. I appreciate it at least. And next time he wares out a keyboard I'll spring for a new one for him...

 

I'm just an ordinary gun owner just like you. I have no law degrees or magic powers. However, I do research into these things and talk to attorneys who do offer legal opinions and advice. So what you hear from me is usually what someone else told me, or I read in a book, or saw in a presentation from an actual attorney, or a judge in a court decision. 

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The statute says "all weapons" so if you ask me it means "all weapons" and not limited to just handguns.

 

It is indeed for all weapons. However, if you have a FID, it supercedes the exemptions.

 

Here is how we come to the conclusion that possession of long guns outside the exemptions is OK with FID. 

 

2C:39-5. Unlawful possession of weapons.

 

b.     Handguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the second degree. (2) If the handgun is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person it is a crime of the third degree.

 

     c.     Rifles and shotguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

Notice they are worded the exact same way, except they substitute the type of gun and document required, as well as the type of crime.

 

Therefore, the way it is worded, the FPIC can act as a permit to carry (possess) a rifle or shotgun.  There are exemptions listed in 2C:39-6 which we rely on for possessing firearms at home, at the range and other places. But since we have the FPIC, which is a possession permit for rifles and shotguns, we don't need to rely on those exemptions for those guns. However, since we don't have a permit to carry a handgun (most of us non-LEO and non-SORA anyway) we have to rely on the exemptions for handgun possession. 

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I'm just an ordinary gun owner just like you. I have no law degrees or magic powers. However, I do research into these things and talk to attorneys who do offer legal opinions and advice. So what you hear from me is usually what someone else told me, or I read in a book, or saw in a presentation from an actual attorney, or a judge in a court decision.

yep I knew your not a lawyer, as you have stated previously. But you definitely have a good knowledge base for NJ firearms laws. I like to think that I do as well. But like anything else its always good to have others opinions or interpretations, especially when it comes to laws. NJ's firearms laws in particular, they can be vague and easily misunderstood even by someone with a decent intellect.

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In the video from Evan Nappen he says you can do it. He can offer legal advice, not me. :)

 

He did say that it is not advisable though, for obvious reasons. If a cop sees a gun, you're going to get pulled over, and you're going to have to explain why. You may even get arrested and sort it out with the judge. Hence, not advisable. 

 

Ammo in mags is a topic beaten to death here. Nappen says loaded mags "could" be construed as loaded firearm. Others here have said it's OK. I don't know. 

yes i believe its pretty clear that if you get pulled over and have a visible rifle in your vehicle youll probably have guns pointed at you, your car searched and youll most likely be arrested 

 

do you believe in your own a opinion though that if you have ammo and an unloaded magazine in you immediate possession like the center console, do you think that can be considered "loaded"

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I agree the FID card allows an individual to carry a shotgun or rifle; however, I think you should consider the intent of the law to allow the individual to go hunting or the range. The current climate would discourage anyone from carrying a long gun just because they think they are exempt. In addition, I'll have to do some real research but in the last few years I have heard of some people getting convicted of transporting their firearms improperly.

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This is the fish and game code.........

 

  23:4-24.1a.  Improper transportation of firearm in motor vehicle; penalty
     In addition to the requirements of section 1 of P.L.1939, c.172 (C.23:4-24.1), no person may transport, possess, or have in their control a firearm in a motor vehicle unless the firearm is unloaded and contained in a closed and securely fastened case, or locked in the trunk of the motor vehicle.  A person violating this section shall be liable to a civil penalty of not less than $50.00 nor more than $200.00.

 

 

Notice it says "no person" and not "a licensed hunter" - this means it applies to everyone, not just people engaged in hunting. I believe the current fine is $71.

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This is the fish and game code.........

 

23:4-24.1a. Improper transportation of firearm in motor vehicle; penalty

In addition to the requirements of section 1 of P.L.1939, c.172 (C.23:4-24.1), no person may transport, possess, or have in their control a firearm in a motor vehicle unless the firearm is unloaded and contained in a closed and securely fastened case, or locked in the trunk of the motor vehicle. A person violating this section shall be liable to a civil penalty of not less than $50.00 nor more than $200.00.

 

 

Notice it says "no person" and not "a licensed hunter" - this means it applies to everyone, not just people engaged in hunting. I believe the current fine is $71.

This is what I was referencing, title 23. So carrying uncased is definitely against the law. But its a civil penalty not criminal like I stated. That means your issued a summons, pay the fine and its done. But it is still a fish and game violation none the less, if your convicted of two violations within a 5 year period the penalty is loss of hunting and fishing privileges for a period of 2 years. (been there done that personally, and it was no fun)  May not matter to someone who doesn't hunt or fish though. 

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do you believe in your own a opinion though that if you have ammo and an unloaded magazine in you immediate possession like the center console, do you think that can be considered "loaded"

 

In my opinion? No. 

 

But NJ law does not define what is a loaded firearm and some other states go real far with the definition. So nobody knows yet because there has been no test case. 

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This is the fish and game code.........

 

  23:4-24.1a.  Improper transportation of firearm in motor vehicle; penalty

     In addition to the requirements of section 1 of P.L.1939, c.172 (C.23:4-24.1), no person may transport, possess, or have in their control a firearm in a motor vehicle unless the firearm is unloaded and contained in a closed and securely fastened case, or locked in the trunk of the motor vehicle.  A person violating this section shall be liable to a civil penalty of not less than $50.00 nor more than $200.00.

 

 

Notice it says "no person" and not "a licensed hunter" - this means it applies to everyone, not just people engaged in hunting. I believe the current fine is $71.

 

Again, the spirit of the law is to prevent poachers and illegal activity relating to wildlife.

 

If I'm carrying an unloaded AR in downtown Newark (DEFINITELY not advisable) I am not poaching any sort of animal, so the likelihood of charging me under this statute is slim to none. 

Besides, the way this law is worded, it can also net people who have a carry permit carrying loaded handguns in a holster on their person in a vehicle. I am pretty sure this was not the intent of the law as written. 

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I agree the FID card allows an individual to carry a shotgun or rifle; however, I think you should consider the intent of the law to allow the individual to go hunting or the range. The current climate would discourage anyone from carrying a long gun just because they think they are exempt. In addition, I'll have to do some real research but in the last few years I have heard of some people getting convicted of transporting their firearms improperly.

 

I agree that it would attract the wrong kind of attention from law enforcement. I have not heard of anyone being convicted for this, however. 

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