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Keeping a firearm in a rented apartment?

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I have a friend who is renting an apartment here in New Jersey and has been wanting to bring down his long guns from upstate New York. He is afraid it is illegal to store them there. It's my understanding that as long as there is not a "no firearms" clause in his lease agreement, it is his current residence and he should be fine. He is not looking to purchase a firearm or ammo so the FPID is irrelevant. Any opinions or troubles he should be aware of? Could his township have laws against storing firearms in a rented apartment? Thanks guys for any help you can offer.

 

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Short version: No.

 

More detailed:

It is unlawful to knowingly possess any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a Permit to Carry, and it is unlawful to knowingly possess any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a Firearms Purchaser Identification Card (FID), however, no Permit to Carry or FID is required:

  1. To keep or carry any firearm about a person’s place of business, residence, premises, or other land owned or possessed by him; a place of business shall be deemed a fixed location.

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The only possible hiccup might be getting them to the apartment without an FID.  Please correct me if I am wrong (just a handgun guy) but I thought you needed an FID to transport long guns except between home and range.  Since he is not coming from a range (unless he goes there first) to his house it could be a technical issue - I think.  I'm sure someone that knows better will correct me if I am wrong.

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http://www.njsp.org/faq.html

 

Q10.

 

 

I have moved to New Jersey from another state. May I continue to possess my firearm(s)?

 

 

A10.

 

 

Firearms which have been legally acquired in another state and are legal to possess in New Jersey may be brought to New Jersey by the owner when residency is established. The owner may VOLUNTARILY register the firearm(s) by completing a Voluntary Form of Firearms Registration, however the owner is not obligated to do so.

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I was under the impression you only need an FPID (firearms PURCHASE identification) to buy a gun, not to have one. And it's only long guns no handguns so he shouldn't even need a proof of purchase. Again this is just all my thoughts so anyone who is certain please chime in. But then again... who could be certain in this state.

 

Sent from my LG G2 using tapatalk

 

 

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He can bring guns into NJ that he legally purchased while a resident elsewhere.  The issue about the FID is transport.  You can have a long gun in your trunk in NJ driving around if you have an FID.  If you don't then I believe you are under the same restrictions you would be for a handgun.  Some one will give you a definite answer, or you could always read the statute and make your own guess as to what it really says.

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Is there a distinction, however, between "resident" and "land owner?" 

 

I believe the OP will be "renting" when they establish residency.  I had always thought that in re: rental property (i.e. "private" property), it is the land owner's call. Witness all the confrontational issues in re: restaurants, malls, stores, etc.... all "private property."  I would think this also applies to "residential" rental property as well. If prohibited in the lease, the "resident" cannot possess their weapons on that property.  If approved  by the land owner, then the problem arises in re: "transportation" to/from that rental property.

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So if he is not a new jersey resident he can't bring them?

 

Sent from my LG G2 using tapatalk

 

Once again we are suffering from incomplete information at the onset of questions.  Is the Guy going to use the rental as a Flop House just when he's in-town or is he really using it as a residence?   Not to split hairs, but THAT is the real issue!  I'm of the opinion that a millionaire can own/rent several residences in several states and have a gun safe in each house in every state.  Reason being, when Sandy hit the Jersey coast, lots of guns got wet with sea water or homes containing legal firearms were abandoned by Police order.  Even a part-time vacation home is a "residence", be it a bungalow or a mansion on LBI... 

 

As far as transportation goes, he can bring stuff from NY State into his NJ residence(s).  Once the guns are in NJ, he can enter matches, take them for repair, go to a public or private club to target shoot, etc., as long as he treats the guns as hand guns (directly to and from Rule applies).

 

We needn't over-think this issue.  Just make sure that the evil black rifles are Jersey-legal and the mags are 15 rounds or less.

 

Dave

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If he is renting the apt he can bring his long guns to his NJ apt under the moving exemption. Straight to the apartment with only reasonable deviations. He could do the same with a handgun. Without a FID he is limited to directly to his other residence, range, hunting, etc.

 

If there is a no firearms clause in his lease thats a civil matter not criminal.

 

Alpo, you need to read a little more in the statute to see the transportation exemptions if you don't have a FID.

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Two things.

 

The moving exception does not apply to hollowpoints. Don't mention moving if caught with them.

 

Also, I know nothing about NY handgun laws (I know the OP said longguns) but I have heard that NY has rules about leaving NY with a handgun, like you have to turn in your handgun permit or something. I forget, I heard it reviewed on a gun forum, he can check if necessary to see if there is any such thing.

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So if he is not a new jersey resident he can't bring them?

 

Sent from my LG G2 using tapatalk

If he rents an apartment in NJ and stays in the apartment, he will be considered a NJ resident as far as firearms laws are concerned........If he only stays at this apartment, he will only be a NJ resident.......If he stays at this apartment sometimes and another residence in NY sometimes, he will be a resident of both states.

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Just curious - can a landlord really have a "no firearms in the apartment" clause?

I mean, I rent in NJ and the only remotely firearm-related clause I remember in my rental agreement was about the garage, something like "Storing any flammable liquids, oils, explosives incl. firearm ammo, firearms etc (...) is prohibited in the garage", but I clearly haven't heard anything about such a restriction for an apartment itself...

 

I was kind of under impression that tenants have so many rights in the state of NJ that it can really be the pain in the neck for a landlord to evict anyone even if there is a good reason to do so. I think I still have a neighbor that already set his kitchen on fire three or four times this year being drunk as hell and apparently nobody can do anything with it. I'd be surprised to know if someone really had such a clause in the rental agreement in NJ...

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Just curious - can a landlord really have a "no firearms in the apartment" clause?

I mean, I rent in NJ and the only remotely firearm-related clause I remember in my rental agreement was about the garage, something like "Storing any flammable liquids, oils, explosives incl. firearm ammo, firearms etc (...) is prohibited in the garage", but I clearly haven't heard anything about such a restriction for an apartment itself...

 

I was kind of under impression that tenants have so many rights in the state of NJ that it can really be the pain in the neck for a landlord to evict anyone even if there is a good reason to do so. I think I still have a neighbor that already set his kitchen on fire three or four times this year being drunk as hell and apparently nobody can do anything with it. I'd be surprised to know if someone really had such a clause in the rental agreement in NJ...

 

 

With the possible exception of laws/civil liabilities that protect the "protected classes" (race, color, creed, medical/physical disabilities, etc.), or other health and fire/safety codes, I believe a land owner can put whatever they want in their rental agreement. It's the land owner's private property and their responsibility and liability risk for what happens on it. It's their call. It's the tenant's choice to rent or not, subject to those terms.

 

Take college dorm rooms at a private university, for example. Private land, and lots or regulations there about what you can have in a college dorm (mostly for fire/safety reasons). Given what's happened recently at several college campuses, I'm sure firearms are a definite no-no, if for no other reasons than the potential for civil liability should there be an "on campus" incident. I would imagine the same thing with private land owners who rent housing as well.

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With the possible exception of laws/civil liabilities that protect the "protected classes" (race, color, creed, medical/physical disabilities, etc.), or other health and fire/safety codes, I believe a land owner can put whatever they want in their rental agreement. It's the land owner's private property and their responsibility and liability risk for what happens on it. It's their call. It's the tenant's choice to rent or not, subject to those terms.

 

Take college dorm rooms at a private university, for example. Private land, and lots or regulations there about what you can have in a college dorm (mostly for fire/safety reasons). Given what's happened recently at several college campuses, I'm sure firearms are a definite no-no, if for no other reasons than the potential for civil liability should there be an "on campus" incident. I would imagine the same thing with private land owners who rent housing as well.

With the exception of protected classes - race, religion, etc... - the landlord can put just about anything in a lease.  The issue comes down to enforcement of them.

 

NJ is not a "self help" state, so every eviction has to go through the court.

 

As for tenant or landlord rights, every county is different.  I deal with Somerset county all the time and evicting a tenant for non-payment is easy, takes about 6-8 weeks.  Evicting for anything else is "difficult".  I doubt a judge would grant an eviction for violating a "no weapons" clause unless there was some other extenuating circumstance but I'm not a lawyer...

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Thanks, HBecwithFn7

Just tried to google it, seems there is no common opinion on this.

Apparently, the only set in stone thing that I managed to find is that in MN landlords cannot restrict tenants to have firearms - that's a state law.

It also seems that there more or less common opinion among landlords / rental property owners that even with such a restriction in place in their agreement it is almost impossible to enforce it unless a tenant is running around with his AR in hands, LOL, as most of the states are very serious about privacy of tenants and specifically restrict unannounced dwelling inspections etc....

 

Anyways, glad I don't have such a cause in my lease (just double checked) :)

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Also, I know nothing about NY handgun laws (I know the OP said longguns) but I have heard that NY has rules about leaving NY with a handgun, like you have to turn in your handgun permit or something. I forget, I heard it reviewed on a gun forum, he can check if necessary to see if there is any such thing.

 

In NY State the county decides what to do. You file a change of address if you're moving out of state. Some may send you a new license with your new address and some may cancel the license at that point. 

 

NY City is a completely different situation. It issues premises permits which allow one to keep a handgun in one's home and various "carry" permits. If you have a premises permit you are only authorized to go to target ranges or hunting. If you attempt to take the gun out of state for any other reason and they catch you, they can revoke the permit. Beach v Kelly is the case, where a man with a Nevada CCW was going to Vegas and checked in his gun at JFK. His permit was revoked because he wasn't authorized to travel with his gun. You can ask for specific authorization for specific purposes. If you have an unrestricted carry you can carry it anywhere. Many people just drive out of state with them and they don't get caught that way. 

 

Nonresident NYS and NYC licenses exist but they are usually tied to a business. 

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A ban in your lease is unenforceable anyway. Are they going to break in and search your apartment? That is illegal. 

 

But they can enter your rented dwelling "at reasonable business hours" to make inspections, effect repairs, maintenance, etc., whether or not you are home. When I rented, they did it all the time. Oddly enough, it was, mostly, the "exterminators" spraying for bugs, ants, etc. But they sprayed "everywhere" and opened every lower cabinet and closet door, etc.).  Heck, per my "townhouse association" agreement, they can enter my townhouse unit (which I own, fee simple) to effect maintenance/repairs on any "common elements" (electrical wiring, gas & water plumbing, cable and POTS lines, etc.). The only time they have actually done it is when the NJ Div. of Consumer Affairs comes to inspect the smoke detectors, etc. every 5 years for multiple unit dwellings.  I usually make sure I'm home when that happens. So far, with one exception, the inspectors only inspect the smoke and CO detectors.

 

Point being, should they (land owners) find anything during a "maintenance" visit, they could initiate eviction procedures for violating the lease. How successful they might be, of course, would depending on state/local laws & procedures. Assuming the weapons are stored in a gun safe, I wonder if they could ask "what's inside the safe...." (I'd imagine any competent land owner would know what a gun safe is, and what's likely inside...)... :dontknow:

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But they can enter your rented dwelling "at reasonable business hours" to make inspections, effect repairs, maintenance, etc., whether or not you are home. When I rented, they did it all the time. Oddly enough, it was, mostly, the "exterminators" spraying for bugs, ants, etc. But they sprayed "everywhere" and opened every lower cabinet and closet door, etc.).  Heck, per my "townhouse association" agreement, they can enter my townhouse unit (which I own, fee simple) to effect maintenance/repairs on any "common elements" (electrical wiring, gas & water plumbing, cable and POTS lines, etc.). The only time they have actually done it is when the NJ Div. of Consumer Affairs comes to inspect the smoke detectors, etc. every 5 years for multiple unit dwellings.  I usually make sure I'm home when that happens. So far, with one exception, the inspectors only inspect the smoke and CO detectors.

 

Point being, should they (land owners) find anything during a "maintenance" visit, they could initiate eviction procedures for violating the lease. How successful they might be, of course, would depending on state/local laws & procedures. Assuming the weapons are stored in a gun safe, I wonder if they could ask "what's inside the safe...." (I'd imagine any competent land owner would know what a gun safe is, and what's likely inside...)... :dontknow:

 

 

I would tell them "none of your business."

 

They did that to me too but had to give notice. They couldn't just enter at will unless it was an emergency. 

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I would tell them "none of your business."

 

They did that to me too but had to give notice. They couldn't just enter at will unless it was an emergency. 

 

They gave me notice as well, but certainly not enough to remove/hide a full cache of weapons, if that's what was needed.  My only choice would be a gun safe, and your "none of you business" response. :)

 

Funny, come to think of it, I haven't yet had to deal with the "Div. of Consumer Affairs," smoke/CO detector inspection thing since becoming a gun owner.   They do have the right to inspect the entire townhouse. If he sees the secure lock on the closet door, and he wants to be an a$$hole, he could demand entry, and could violate me and report me to the association as "uncooperative" if I refuse (which could trigger other "visits").  As stated earlier, most of the guys just care to see the CO detector and test the smoke detectors. But, one time, I had one that demanded to see everything... all closets etc... dinged me for excess corrugated boxes, paper, etc. He even tried to ding me for an "empty" box that used to contain an "electric heater" (which are very illegal in multiple unit dwellings, apparently).  

 

I have until late 2016 (their next scheduled visit) to make decisions. I doubt I'll be gone from NJ by then, but we'll see... ever hopeful.

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I don't even know what is better LOL - my super / landlord employees are hard to catch even when your ceiling is literally falling down after the rain :)

I seriously can't imagine this guy to come VOLUNTARILY (I mean, not because of my repeated requests to the management office) to my apartment for any inspection. Maybe that's good - who knows...

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I don't even know what is better LOL - my super / landlord employees are hard to catch even when your ceiling is literally falling down after the rain :)

I seriously can't imagine this guy to come VOLUNTARILY (I mean, not because of my repeated requests to the management office) to my apartment for any inspection. Maybe that's good - who knows...

 

More than likely, it's a matter of what's required by law or municipal ordinances. Otherwise, I doubt they would show up. I'm thinking, the state in which I lived and rented those apartments where exterminations took place probably had some kind of municipal/county ordinance(s). In fact, In fact, they had all kinds of "mosquito control." The county had "drive by" trucks that sprayed mosquito repellant on the outdoor shrubs (and the cars... and the patios/terraces, etc. etc. etc....) :facepalm:

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I would tell them "none of your business."

 

They did that to me too but had to give notice. They couldn't just enter at will unless it was an emergency. 

This is a civil matter. They don't lose "fruit of the poisoned tree." If they come in your place for no good reason you get booted out for violation of lease and have to pay the lease balance plus attorney costs. If you think you have a loss because they came in when they shouldn't then you can sue them for that loss. No idea WTF that loss would be outside of you breaking the terms of your lease. You could also press charges criminally for trespass and I wonder how an NJ judge would receive that if the issue was over you having guns in your apartment in violation of the lease - oh wait, that might be considered trespass on your part, right? Trespass with guns.

 

I'm not a lawyer, pay somebody to tell you want you want to hear. Due diligence does not protect you with respect to firearms in NJ.

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They did that to me too but had to give notice. They couldn't just enter at will unless it was an emergency.

"Emergency" is subjective, I had a landlord enter my apartment without notice when I wasn't home because they "heard water running and was afraid there would be a floor". There was nothing wrong in my apartment.

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They did that to me too but had to give notice. They couldn't just enter at will unless it was an emergency.

"Emergency" is subjective, I had a landlord enter my apartment without notice when I wasn't home because she "heard water running and was afraid there would be a flood". There was nothing wrong in my apartment.

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