Beware the Cheating RO

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Wow.  As a certified USPSA Range Officer, I'm appalled.  At a Level 2 & 3 match as well..

 

And yes - innocent until proven guilty but a lot of this seems pretty blatant.

 

http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=12564&utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=breaking-uspsa-cheating-scandal-uncovered

 

In our area as well.... area 8....

[louu 399]

Not surprised, I see favoritism in IDPA a lot down here with procedurals. I see a lot of bitches in Bulls eye too waning the higher score if the paper is ripped even though its obvious the bullet did not hit here.

 

Way I see it is your only cheating yourself...

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Level 1 or local matches - a little bit of leeway on the scoring is questionable but generally not frowned upon.  Saying "oh I'll give him that one" is not as bad as randomly adding or subtracting time based on if you like or dislike a person.

 

My big issue is that this happened at area matches - like big Level 3 competitions that have big sponsors and big prizes...

[louu 399]

Just local matches, but you would think they were shooting for thousands of dollars with the way some of them conduct themselves.

[Vlad G 345]

While I'm personally curious how this ends up, and I have my personal opinions, I think we need to let the USPSA BoD deal with this issue, dig through it, and then throw stones.

 

Yes the doodie forum digs up a lot of dirt, but they are also consummate trolls, so while they might be right, lets give this is time to run through before we get all up in pitchforks and march to the dude's house. 

 

If it is true, lots of match results and classifications in that area will be suspect, but there isn't anything you can do about it after the fact.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Wow.  As a certified USPSA Range Officer, I'm appalled.  At a Level 2 & 3 match as well..

 

And yes - innocent until proven guilty but a lot of this seems pretty blatant.

 

http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=12564&utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=breaking-uspsa-cheating-scandal-uncovered

 

In our area as well.... area 8....

 

Any indications yet as to specific motivations for doing this, or is it simply favoring/unfavoring individual contestants???

[2Alpha 6]

I don't 100% faith in the BOD to do the right thing here.  There have been a lot of recent issues with the way the board is handling its business. 

Doodie project trolls are going to frenzy around the biggest scandel (usually created by themselves), there is no way to stop those nuthuggers.  But it looks like they finally found something that actually has some truth to it.

 

My experience with Hendrix at 2013 A8 was very poor, the whole squad was yelled at as we were walking to the stage.  He was going on about how the tent was just for ROs.  We hadn't even got to the tent yet

[Vlad G 345]

Yeah, I'm far more interested on how the BOD will handle it then the actual events. This can be a black eye from the PR standpoint, but it can also be a sucking chest wound if they handle it badly. There is now way that bruises aren't involved, USPSA is gonna have a shiner, but lots of sports have had cheating scandals, handled it correctly and moved on with their lives. The trick is how you handle it.

 

 

Personally, it pisses me off to no end even at local matches when people do a bit of the "well give it to him, its close". Mind you, I've done it myself at times and it was still wrong if you are doing it because he is your buddy. As RO's we should always fairly and evenly give the benefit of the doubt to the shooter, one of the things that some of the better RMs have taught me is that you never pull overlays, if it is that close give to the shooter. However .. there is a limit.

 

I know of a few incidents of blatant cheating at our local matches. Not incidents I could do anything about, but when you see people who looks like they swallowed the bird going around saying "who me?" you know it.   As a match director, I can only do so much if I don't witness it myself. It comes down to individual shooters to call out horseshit going on on their squad. Not only do you call over the match director, you need to call out people to their faces, grow a pair, be a man, and stand for what you think is right . Don't tolerate this crap on your squad if you see it.

[Silphidae 33]

Just local matches, but you would think they were shooting for thousands of dollars with the way some of them conduct themselves.

  

Not surprised, I see favoritism in IDPA a lot down here with procedurals. I see a lot of bitches in Bulls eye too waning the higher score if the paper is ripped even though its obvious the bullet did not hit here.

 

Way I see it is your only cheating yourself...

Sounds like you have a good amount of experience with the IDPA clubs down there, you should share the specifics so they can be corrected.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Wow.  As a certified USPSA Range Officer, I'm appalled.  At a Level 2 & 3 match as well..

 

And yes - innocent until proven guilty but a lot of this seems pretty blatant.

 

http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=12564&utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=breaking-uspsa-cheating-scandal-uncovered

 U

In our area as well.... area 8....

 

Not surprised whatsoever. USPSA is a game. People will cheat at any game. Some more than others.

 

 

 

 

Just local matches, but you would think they were shooting for thousands of dollars with the way some of them conduct themselves.

Ever watch a Pop Warner football game? Watch some of the coaches. I'd swear they were playing the Superbowl and the game was worth millions of dollars to them.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Yes - I'm very interested in seeing the official line on this.

 

Yes, I've seen things regarding blatant cheating at local matches too..... There's "gimmes" and then there's cheating (I've seen an instance where someone said they didn't see the scoring process and demanded a reshoot, when they purposely walked away because they knew they missed).

 

I try to be pretty fair when RO'ing and scoring.  If I'm RO'ing and someone comes really close to a 180 break, and other guys go whoah but it looks ok to me, that's my call.  If I have to really really look at a target to determine the score, I'll go to the higher score...   But adding or subtracting time blatantly and randomly, when it can be proven by video evidence.. That seems pretty despicable to me.

[Hops 0]

 

My experience with Hendrix at 2013 A8 was very poor, the whole squad was yelled at as we were walking to the stage.  He was going on about how the tent was just for ROs.  We hadn't even got to the tent yet

 

I have heard many stories like this one over the past couple of days.  It sounds like he was not a pleasant person to deal with.  Maybe that is why so many people are commenting about it, you always like to see mean, arrogant people trip up.  Not saying thats what is happening, but it could be. 

 

As far as USPSA is concerned, they are trying to stop losing members and also trying to gather new shooters to the sport.  An RO is an Ambassador for the sport, why would you let someone like this be your Ambassador?  This is already a very intimidating sport for new people, having anyone that is less than helpful (or downright arrogant) is not what we need in the sport. 

 

I have shot at more than a few matches at different locations and I can easily say that the RO's at Shongum are some of the most helpful and welcoming I have come across.  They are the reason I am in this sport, because it was an easy, fun experience.  I did not feel intimidated at all.  They were very helpful and supportive.  Isn't that the image this sport should be projecting?

[Vlad G 345]

Keep in mind, even if everything about this dude is true, he is by far the exception.  The rumor has it his RO card has already been suspended, but proceedings take some time for other things to happen.

 

I'm not really sure USPSA is losing people btw.

[Melgamatic 66]

Without knowing much about the sport, I'm surprised that a second person doesn't have to see the timer before the score is recorded.  Wouldn't that be a normal process in a highly competitive sport?  Not just to prevent cheating, but even more so to prevent human mistakes which could really change the outcome?

[M4BGRINGO 139]

This is why Alec always beats me. Nick subtracts 5 seconds from his time and adds it to mine!  

 

OK, maybe he is just better than me. I can own up to the fact I suck, it's ok.................

[ronhonda 86]

Without knowing much about the sport, I'm surprised that a second person doesn't have to see the timer before the score is recorded. Wouldn't that be a normal process in a highly competitive sport? Not just to prevent cheating, but even more so to prevent human mistakes which could really change the outcome?

Common practice is to call out time and show timer to scorekeeper. Scorekeeper repeats time back to you as well as hits being recorded from targets.

[Vlad G 345]

Common practice is to call out time and show timer to scorekeeper. Scorekeeper repeats time back to you as well as hits being recorded from targets.

 

This. Most RO's will hold the timer towards the score keeper while going through unload and show clear, then read the time out loud, both the score keeper and the RO verify that. The shooter can certainly also ask to see it, but most don't because this isn't really a wide spread issue.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

That's how I do it.  That's how I was taught and that's what makes the most sense to me.

 

Some of the responsibility here falls on the scoring officer as well....

[raz-0 1,259]

Keep in mind, even if everything about this dude is true, he is by far the exception.  The rumor has it his RO card has already been suspended, but proceedings take some time for other things to happen.

 

I'm not really sure USPSA is losing people btw.

 

 

Based on their mailing disclosure in the latest issue vs the newer numbers, they appear to be picking up about 500 members a year even after churn. 

[hiker88 22]

That's how I do it.  That's how I was taught and that's what makes the most sense to me.

 

Some of the responsibility here falls on the scoring officer as well....

 Even when scoring matches using the Nooks, I have the shooter being scored look and verify his time and score before I hit the save button. 

 

If there is a question, it's easier to go back at the targets and the timer for review.

[silverc6 0]

Even without this cheating incident, PH is simply a douchbag from experience in last year's area 8 match.

[alec.mc 180]

Even without this cheating incident, PH is simply a douchbag from experience in last year's area 8 match.

agreed.

 

He was being a dick at the va/md sectional last month too

[Brian B 2]

I am going to miss him, I always did really well on the stages he was ROing!

[Mikeythumbs 1]

I am going to miss him, I always did really well on the stages he was ROing!

Lol too soon

[Krdshrk 3,877]

I am going to miss him, I always did really well on the stages he was ROing!

[Iggyort 44]

Has the USPSA Board made any official announcement yet ?

[Vlad G 345]

Has the USPSA Board made any official announcement yet ?

 

Yes, no, sortof.

 

NROI has suspended his RO card, that doesn't require board actions.

 

The board has odd 7 day minimum warning for formal meetings, and that time hasn't passed yet, however both the Strader (president) and Chuck Anderson (area director, area 5 maybe?) have made statements. There is a formal investigation going on, led by Chuck.  Chuck has requested that ANYONE possessing any information, video, etc contact him directly.  He is particular interested in original video (not youtube, but he'll take it) and any other information you might have.  Phil has requested that everyone hold their horses and not burn anyone at the stake until the investigation is complete.

 

So there hasn't been "formal" announcement that I've seen, but the board members have stated that there is an ongoing investigation.

[Iggyort 44]

Thanks

[Krdshrk 3,877]

From Facebook:

[hiker88 22]

Waiting for the action(s) from the USPSA BOD