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Jersey City requires Notarized reference letter

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A friend of mine just included me as a reference, received the letter. Requires notarized signature and drivers licence number ?

 

I mean I'll get it done but I guess its their way of slowing down, discouraging returns ? 

 

 

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Union City also sends the two references a letter which needs to be notarized, and asks for DL and SSN.

 

These requirements sound like the PD in question is on a "fishing expedition."  I would never offer myself up as bait. :nono:

 

Hopefully, the person using me as a reference will have cleared it with me first. I'd hate to have to embarrass them after putting in that kind of effort.  :(

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Would these not fall under no extra forms...

 

Maybe, but who's going to enforce it?    Who would write a speeding ticket to a NJ State Trooper??? :)  I'd imagine a PD the size of a JCPD would be doing everything possible to circumvent such a court order (higher court challenges, injunctions, bureaucracy, etc.).  If they're really intent on imposing all these extra requirements to retard the process, they aren't going to give them up that easily.

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Why is this not showing up as a letter to the editor in the newspapers.  Actually a big headline "Jersey City Mayor gives court a big FU"

 

You know the answer there.... The liberal MSM isn't going to facilitate our cause one iota.  All incidents either get spun in an anti-gun way, or not ever mentioned. :facepalm:

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Sit down and pen a nice editorial and submit it to the Star Ledger for publication.

 

Then delete it from your hard drive because that's exactly what the Star Ledger is going to do.

 

On the other hand, if you submit anything anti-gun long enough to fill their Sunday editorial page, you're in!

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Here is the article about the court's finding with regard to Jersey City...

 

http://www.ammoland.com/2014/04/jersey-citys-extra-gun-forms-offensive-to-new-jersey-law/#axzz37AZu7KiZ

 

To really throw a monkey wrench in the works, there is no place in the statutes that says anything about reference letters, let alone having them notarized and including a DL number. Yes you have to provide the names and contact information for two references on the STS-033 (application form), but beyond that it is incumbent on the PD to do the background check.

 

I'd find an actual transcript of the court decision and turn that in with only the state mandated forms (STS-033 / SP-066 - signed in the presence of the investigating LEO / and the SBI-212 - now in electronic format - provide the PD with your confirmation number).

 

Hard to believe that in the face of the recent court decision they are still pulling this crap. Up to you how hard you want to push it, but a mention of Nappen's name - if they give you any static when you go to submit the forms - may go a long way toward the PD's compliance - but you better be ready to follow through. When you have an asshat like Fulop as your leader, they may think they are above the law.

 

Good luck.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

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They may be legally allowed to do this.

 

The law states you must provide two references as part of your application. The PD then conducts its background investigation, part of which can be contacting those references.

There's no specification as to how that contact is made- it can be letter, phone call, visit. They can request almost anything from the reference.

None of that is an extra form that the applicant is required to fill out or sign.

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Here is the article about the court's finding with regard to Jersey City...

 

http://www.ammoland.com/2014/04/jersey-citys-extra-gun-forms-offensive-to-new-jersey-law/#axzz37AZu7KiZ

 

To really throw a monkey wrench in the works, there is no place in the statutes that says anything about reference letters, let alone having them notarized and including a DL number. Yes you have to provide the names and contact information for two references on the STS-033 (application form), but beyond that it is incumbent on the PD to do the background check.

 

I'd find an actual transcript of the court decision and turn that in with only the state mandated forms (STS-033 / SP-066 - signed in the presence of the investigating LEO / and the SBI-212 - now in electronic format - provide the PD with your confirmation number).

 

Hard to believe that in the face of the recent court decision they are still pulling this crap. Up to you how hard you want to push it, but a mention of Nappen's name - if they give you any static when you go to submit the forms - may go a long way toward the PD's compliance - but you better be ready to follow through. When you have an asshat like Fulop as your leader, they may think they are above the law.

 

Good luck.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Exactly...add to that the fact that Fulop demoted the Chief of Police supposedly for not falling in line with new policies and It's anyone's guess what the acting has been instructed to do .

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As was stated previously, they can request anything of the reference but they are not the ones being investigated and are under no obligation to respond. Here's a thought. If the applicant responds on the STS-033, in good faith, with the names and contact info of two references, but the reference does not respond, is that grounds for disqualification of the applicant?

 

I believe that any letter or other contact that goes beyond a general character reference is outside the law. I have yet to see a reference letter that doesn't, in some way reference firearms. The NJAC - which is supposed to explain how the statutes are to be applied specifically says...

 

Any background investigation conducted by the chief of police, the Superintendent or the county prosecutor, of any applicant for a permit, firearms identification card license, or registration, in accordance with the requirements of this chapter, is not a public record and shall not be disclosed to any person not authorized by law or this chapter to have access to such investigation, including the applicant. Any application for a permit, firearms identification card, or license, and any document reflecting the issuance or denial of such permit, firearms identification card, or license, and any permit, firearms identification card, license, certification, certificate, form of register, or registration statement, maintained by any State or municipal governmental agency, is not a public record and shall not be disclosed to any person not authorized by law or this chapter to have access to such documentation, including the applicant, except on the request of persons acting in their governmental capacities for purposes of the administration of justice.

 

Actually I think the whole idea of the applicant providing references is ridiculous on its face - who is going to provide a reference that is going to give them a negative response?

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

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As an outsider, I find it interesting that people are complaining about the need for a notary rather than a need for the reference letter. Reference letters from friends, accomplish nothing at all. Just another step in the process.

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Someone posted here once that his wife's reference answered "not sure" or something similar to the question "Does the applicant suffer from a physical defect or sickness that would make them unsafe to own/use a firearm?"

 

The guy's wife has allergies.

 

She ended up having to get her doctor to write a letter saying her allergies didn't affect her ability to safely handle a firearm.

 

 

I used a reference once myself who received, then lost the letter from the PD. They just sent him another one, but it delayed my permits by another month.

 

Lastly, the argument for references is that someone who can't provide the names of at least two people will say he's not s loon, it's probably a loon.

 

That said, I agree it's stupid, but it does serve their purposes.

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If I'm not mistaken the notary requirement is in the statute..... As for the DL and SS# I'd attach the letter from the state AG stating, "no further requirements" put a note on it saying being submitted in lue of DL and SS numbers

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I like what Old Dog said above about whats the point of a good Reference from a "friend"? How many criminals do you think have friends that would write back and say ...... Don't give him a gun, he sells drugs and mugs people

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If I'm not mistaken the notary requirement is in the statute..... As for the DL and SS# I'd attach the letter from the state AG stating, "no further requirements" put a note on it saying being submitted in lue of DL and SS numbers

 

I don't believe either of my references had to get their letters notarized. I think they would have told me (and asked me to reimburse the fee). Neither did. I don't think it's in the State statute or Admin. code at all. I think that's each municipality setting up their own rules and attempting to get away with it until successfully challenged.

 

As for a reference not supplying DL or SS#, that's something I'd most likely want to resolve with the reference prior to selecting them, knowing that if the reference refused to provide it, the application may very well be denied.  And a denial is the last thing I want on my record. The applicant them self,  I believe, is required to list DL on the STS-033, but SS# is voluntary (although it comes with the standard warning about the application being "delayed" if not supplied).

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As an outsider, I find it interesting that people are complaining about the need for a notary rather than a need for the reference letter. Reference letters from friends, accomplish nothing at all. Just another step in the process.

 

Take this thought to its inevitable conclusion.  Why do we submit to the process in the first place?  Isn't a P2P or even the FID card itself an infringement? 

 

Since when did any kind of qualification prevent those intent on crime and mayhem from accomplishing their goal? 

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Take this thought to its inevitable conclusion.  Why do we submit to the process in the first place?  Isn't a P2P or even the FID card itself an infringement? 

 

Perhaps so but, at present, it's the "cost of doing business" in this State for law abiding citizens. Given the alternatives (i.e. 1) Wait for a successful legal challenge, 2) not possess/own any weapons at all, or 3) Move to another state), it's the one I had to choose. Although, if the march against our 2A rights continues here, that 3rd alternative is looking a lot better all the time.... :).

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