Jump to content
Newtonian

Another Victim of Senseless NJ Laws

Recommended Posts

Summary: 27 year old single mother of two, medical professional, PA-licensed to carry, arrested in NJ during a traffic stop: http://goo.gl/yFyEOL

 

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. But there is no excuse for ignorant laws. 

 

Ironic that she'll probably be taking a prison cell from a recently paroled violent criminal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Summary: 27 year old single mother of two, medical professional, PA-licensed to carry, arrested in NJ during a traffic stop: http://goo.gl/yFyEOL

 

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. But there is no excuse for ignorant laws. 

 

Ironic that she'll probably be taking a prison cell from a recently paroled violent criminal.

 

Evan Nappen is taking her case. He discussed it yesterday on GFH Radio.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Evan Nappen is taking her case. He discussed it yesterday on GFH Radio.

I was actually able to listen to the broadcast, something I'd not been able to do in the past. 

 

I'm thinking, from a purely legal (but obviously non-lawyer) perspective, that the system cannot simply let her off. They would be admitting that the law is unjust. And what do they do next time? She's already spent 46 days in jail -- no bail for a non-violent criminal?

 

The best outcome would have been for the trooper to tell her to get back to Pennsylvania, or for the prosecutor to refuse the case -- very discreetly of course. Now the entire system is on trial.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure wish I could get on that jury if it goes to jury trial.

 

Unfortunately, I think the State's jury consultants would be looking for that, and for us.... :(  They'll have that "peremptory challenge hammer" out in real force.

 

I recall a while back a thread here on whether or not one might be asked about 2A rights and gun ownership in "voire/dire." I think this would be the very trial where those questions would be asked. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do these people not know the laws of the state they are trying to carry in? You have enough sense to carry but you cant take 5 minutes to learn some laws? I know our laws are screwy but come on.

 

Exactly how I feel about it.  I'd like to side with her and say "shes a victim of NJ's gun laws", but really she wasn't responsible, and didn't take the time to look up the reciprocity.  A simple google search I'm sure would turn up tons of information on people saying "don't even think about bringing a gun to NJ".   But I guess some people could be close minded and *think* their CCW license is like a drivers license and would be honored in all 50 states.  She took a gun safety course...not sure of PA's requirements for their CCW permit(or if you even need one at all), but I know at one NRA pistol course I took the instructor made it very clear to the people using the course to satisfy the FL CCW permit training requirement that they couldn't carry in NJ, MD, SC, among others. 

I also know when I was issued my Florida permit, they included a sheet in the envelope that had the states in which FL had reciprocity with.  Again, I don't know what PA gave her...but it would be smart for them to include a similar type of thing considering they are bordered by at least 2 anti-carry states(NJ/MD). 

This case does highlight the need for a national reciprocity act.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what would happen if a jury actually found her not guilty, wouldn't the appellate court just reverse that decision?

 

Nope.... "Double Jeopardy..."    Now, they might try a civil action, but that's a different issue. Or they might attempt to get her Philly permit revoked (not sure how successful they'd be), or something like that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do these people not know the laws of the state they are trying to carry in? You have enough sense to carry but you cant take 5 minutes to learn some laws? I know our laws are screwy but come on.

Happens all the time. Most people in the US have no idea there are places that will actually put normal people in jail for having a gun.

 

How many gun laws did you break that warranted jail time in New Jersey before you found this forum? Quite a few, I bet.

 

Hell, I bet you broke the same law this woman did more than once - possession of a handgun. And you live in this Godforsaken state. I bet 95% of the people on this forum have possessed a handgun outside of NJ law.

 

Be honest with yourself.

 

You know it. And, if you don't know it, it's more likely you don't understand the law, either, than you haven't violated it.

 

5 to 10 years in jail. You are all hardened criminals that should have known better,.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Happens all the time. Most people in the US have no idea there are places that will actually put normal people in jail for having a gun.

 

How many gun laws did you break that warranted jail time in New Jersey before you found this forum? Quite a few, I bet.

 

Hell, I bet you broke the same law this woman did more than once - possession of a handgun. And you live in this Godforsaken state. I bet 95% of the people on this forum have possessed a handgun outside of NJ law.

 

Be honest with yourself.

 

You know it. And, if you don't know it, it's more likely you don't understand the law, either, than you haven't violated it.

 

5 to 10 years in jail. You are all hardened criminals that should have known better,.

Actually I can say with 100% certainty that I have never broken any NJ gun laws. I take gun ownership very seriously and researched online before I even bought my first gun to find out the laws. I carried in PA before I moved to NJ and would never even think to bring my gun into NJ or any state without checked if my LTCF was valid in that state and specific laws to that state regarding transporting, etc.

 

Im sick of dumb gun owners doing stupid shit and simply saying well I didnt know. You are taking on the responsibility of carrying a gun, so be responsible and know the laws. Especially with how easily everyone has access to the information.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Especially with how easily everyone has access to the information.

This. There are free websites dedicated to this exact sort of thing. Heck, there are even apps available for smart phones. It's as easy as going into iTunes/Google Play and searching "ccw". Easier then typing out candy crush! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Actually I can say with 100% certainty that I have never broken any NJ gun laws.

To me that is a sign you are probably still breaking them.

 

I take gun ownership very seriously and researched online before I even bought my first gun to find out the laws. I carried in PA before I moved to NJ and would never even think to bring my gun into NJ or any state without checked if my LTCF was valid in that state and specific laws to that state regarding transporting, etc.

 

Im sick of dumb gun owners doing stupid shit and simply saying well I didnt know. You are taking on the responsibility of carrying a gun, so be responsible and know the laws. Especially with how easily everyone has access to the information.

Do you spend the same amount of time researching vehicular codes when you travel to another state?

 

This shit is completely ridiculous, your expectations of your fellow gun owners are absurd and I am almost certain you have not met your own standards.

 

There is NODOBY on this forum that is certain or every firearm law in NJ. People are still arguing about laws that have been hashed over for years here and have existed for decades.

 

The last guy that said that told me hollowpoints were legal in NJ unless used in a crime.

 

When we gather as responsible gun owners, when we train, we tell each other that we must know what we are doing and take the law seriously, we inform each other of some of the pitfalls out there and we gain an awareness that there are certain things we need to look into and certain perils we must explore when traveling.

 

There is no good reason in These United States of America that owning a fucking gun should be the most perilous legal endeavor in which a common Citizen should engage and require the equivalences of a Juris Doctor to exercise responsibly.

 

NO! This woman is not our enemy, YOU are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes im anti american and the enemy because I believe gun owners should know the laws regarding gun ownership.

 

I never once said I agreed with all of the ridiculous laws but we dont live in a world where we can just ignore them because we believe its our god given right to own a gun.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I absolutely understand where you are coming from.

 

Consider where I am coming from. We, the small percentage of highly involved firearms owners, hold one another to very high standards. It is good to encourage that in practice. It is a crime to encourage that as public policy, and it is ridiculous to assume everybody that owns a gun should be a legal expert. You have 1 million people owning firearms in NJ, if they had to pass your test to get a FID how many do you think would pass? Complete with a study guide?

 

It would be in the 5 figures. I can write a very reasonable test about general practical gun ownership that has no trick questions, just the basics, and half the people here on this forum wouldn't pass it. Likely including you.

 

And you bet your ass you have broken gun laws in NJ (probably in PA, too) :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She should have known, plain and simple. I can get that someone who grew up in a cornfield in Nebraska could be oblivious but she is in Pa and just across the river. How do you (assumably) know not to carry in the prohibited places in Pa but be unaware that the entire state across the bridge is an absolute no go? Of course the laws suck but at some point you need to be responsable for your actions. Who knows, maybe this will be the case where thers enough outrage that theyll back off this law a bit and maybe just instill a fine for possession with no criminal intent. 3yrs automatically is fugn absurd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She should have known, plain and simple. I can get that someone who grew up in a cornfield in Nebraska could be oblivious but she is in Pa and just across the river. How do you (assumably) know not to carry in the prohibited places in Pa but be unaware that the entire state across the bridge is an absolute no go? Of course the laws suck but at some point you need to be responsable for your actions. Who knows, maybe this will be the case where thers enough outrage that theyll back off this law a bit and maybe just instill a fine for possession with no criminal intent. 3yrs automatically is fugn absurd.

What prohibited places in PA?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You people are looking at this from a NJ point of view, and also a gun forum activist point of view.

 

I gotta be honest with you. As a law abiding Citizen, I didn't believe I would actually end up in jail for carrying a handgun in NJ for the 30+ years I lived there. I figured that law wasn't really meant for non-criminals and I would probably get a plea deal with probation.

 

People outside of your communist state do NOT assume that owning a gun is the mos legally perilous activity you can engage in. They have no reason to. You have the benefit (or curse) of having been subjected to this crap your entire lives. Most people don't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do these people not know the laws of the state they are trying to carry in? You have enough sense to carry but you cant take 5 minutes to learn some laws? I know our laws are screwy but come on.

 

Most people don't know half the laws out there.  They figure, I got a "gun license" and they're good.  Just like folks who put gas/charcoal grills on wooden balconies... on the surface, it's innocuous, but in reality, it's a $5,000 violation... unless you have a sprinkler system out there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly how I feel about it.  I'd like to side with her and say "shes a victim of NJ's gun laws", but really she wasn't responsible, and didn't take the time to look up the reciprocity.  A simple google search I'm sure would turn up tons of information on people saying "don't even think about bringing a gun to NJ".   But I guess some people could be close minded and *think* their CCW license is like a drivers license and would be honored in all 50 states.  She took a gun safety course...not sure of PA's requirements for their CCW permit(or if you even need one at all), but I know at one NRA pistol course I took the instructor made it very clear to the people using the course to satisfy the FL CCW permit training requirement that they couldn't carry in NJ, MD, SC, among others. 

I also know when I was issued my Florida permit, they included a sheet in the envelope that had the states in which FL had reciprocity with.  Again, I don't know what PA gave her...but it would be smart for them to include a similar type of thing considering they are bordered by at least 2 anti-carry states(NJ/MD). 

This case does highlight the need for a national reciprocity act.

 

Actually, given how convoluted gun laws are, I don't blame her.  Even in NJ with NJGF, there's still a lot of misconceptions and unanswered questions about our own gun laws. 

 

This isn't a bad person, it's a bad law.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a shame the cop didn't just say "ma'am I appreciate your honesty, but you are gonna have to lock that gun in your trunk". Then helped her instead of arresting her. Unfortunately I doubt that happens in nj.

 

Maybe he would've if she was white.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone here heard of a NY City law that forbids individuals from sitting on milk carts? It's a real law, and one that was enthusiastically enforced during Bloomberg's early days as mayor. 

 

You don't have to be an ignorant bumpkin to be unaware of oppressive legislation. I've been asked by out of staters, "What's a purchase permit?"

 

Ignorance cannot and should not be an excuse for breaking the law. The problem here, however, is that the law exists at all, that the system and the press loves these cases, that there is no discretion. 

 

I must agree with The Poster Formerly Avatared as Phosgene that there is perhaps a not-too-surprising (considering how we were raised) lack of empathy for this lady. 

 

Your analysis should begin, and perhaps end, with the question: "Does anybody deserve a ten-year prison sentence for what she did?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most people don't know half the laws out there.  They figure, I got a "gun license" and they're good.  Just like folks who put gas/charcoal grills on wooden balconies... on the surface, it's innocuous, but in reality, it's a $5,000 violation... unless you have a sprinkler system out there.

I think you are 100% correct.  I work with some very bright people, most are PhD scientists, and those that live in PA were in complete shock by the laws we have here.  When one of them moved to NJ for the first time they went to the local PD to get their CCW permit, they had one in PA, and could not believe it when the police chief basically laughed at them and told them that there wasn't a chance in hell they would get the permit. 

 

While I agree that there is no excuse for not knowing the law, people who have not experienced our crazy laws and the crazy mentality just can't comprehend how bad it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...