Another Victim of Senseless NJ Laws

[Newtonian 453]

Maybe he would've if she was white.

Or maybe this was a case of The War Against Women.

[Handyman 5,682]

Actually I can say with 100% certainty that I have never broken any NJ gun laws...

 

I can say that I have probably broken most of them in the days of my youth (well beyond the statute of limitations). Some due to ignorance, some due to not caring. My actions would have been legal in most other states.

 

No one knew, know was was harmed and NJ did not become the Wild West.

[Handyman 5,682]

Actually, given how convoluted gun laws are, I don't blame her.  Even in NJ with NJGF, there's still a lot of misconceptions and unanswered questions about our own gun laws. 

 

This isn't a bad person, it's a bad law.

 

That is the big issue here. 

 

Most people who have the misfortune to cross our state borders probably operate under the assumption that they can enjoy the same freedoms here as elsewhere. Sure, NJ is filthy and corrupt, but firearms protections are in the federal Constitution and should hold across state lines. 

 

I am incensed that my tax dollars are being spent to incarcerate this woman while MS-13 runs all over the place shooting up Newark. 

 

The biggest rule she broke is this: never talk to cops (at least while they are in their professional capacity).

[HBecwithFn7 296]

While I agree that there is no excuse for not knowing the law, people who have not experienced our crazy laws and the crazy mentality just can't comprehend how bad it is.

 

I would hope, then, that awareness of more stricter States/laws would be part of any CCW training program. Have a pre-class "homework exercise"  or something where they are instructed to go on "usacarry.com" or "handgunlaw.us" and look up the laws in a given state, just for the practice of doing it (i.e. "Find the State/entity with the strictest gun laws"). Give a class reward for the people who come up with the "correct answer" (Dist. of Columbia ---> New York --> New Jersey, etc.). 

 

I know a lot of my friends in FL are gobsmacked with all the laws we have up here.  I recently showed them the big orange Nappen book, and they couldn't believe it. But most of them would, likely, never set foot in NJ, either.... so no issue.  

 

I truly wish this young lady well. Hopefully, Evan can help her avoid the brunt of what's coming.  And, hopefully, she'll be able to keep her Philly permit. But that might be too much to ask/expect.

[njpilot 671]

Yes im anti american and the enemy because I believe gun owners should know the laws regarding gun ownership.

 

I never once said I agreed with all of the ridiculous laws but we dont live in a world where we can just ignore them because we believe its our god given right to own a gun.

Why not? Our overlords feel they can disregard any law they don't like.

 

They get their consent to govern from the governed, not to rule over us.

 

Hasn't stopped them. If they ignore laws, so can we.

[Midwest 28]

This story is getting national attention! Fox 4 out of Dallas Texas picked up on the story as well. And there is a video that is linked to MY 9. http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/25996007/nj-gun-permit-problems

 

 

I tried to embed the video, maybe someone else can.

 

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/clip/10355968/nj-gun-permit-problems

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Nappen knows how to bring the heat

[HBecwithFn7 296]

This story is getting national attention! Fox 4 out of Dallas Texas picked up on the story as well. And there is a video that is linked to MY 9. http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/25996007/nj-gun-permit-problems

 

Well, that's how "FOX" is spinning it.  I'd wonder how the other MSM stations will spin it, if they even cover it. More than likely, it will be "Gun owner 'F's' up.. We need more Gun control!" 

[Midwest 28]

Well, that's how "FOX" is spinning it.  I'd wonder how the other MSM stations will spin it, if they even cover it. More than likely, it will be "Gun owner 'F's' up.. We need more Gun control!" 

If I find any more regional reports from around the country or links to any new videos regarding this story, I'll post them here.

[DeerSlayer 241]

Nappen was on GFH radio this weekend discussing the case. I honestly feel bad for this lady. I know she broke the law but we all know its a bad law that's the real problem. Nappen said "its a discriminatory and sexist law" I like his argument. The Attorney General will be trying the case because Atlantic county doesn't have a prosecutor apparently. I don't know if she will get off but I hope Nappen wins it for her. The Judge will have his hands tied the mandatory minimum is 3years. The entire case will be up to our beloved AG. He already denied her the PTI option. I believe he intends to make an example out of this uninformed woman.

[carl_g 568]

I can't believe how anti 2nd amendment some of you people are. Shame on you for coming down on this poor woman from out of state for not knowing NJ's stupid and unconstitutional gun laws..

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot 358]

"Overcriminalization describes the trend to use the criminal law rather than the civil law to solve every problem, to punish every mistake, and to compel compliance with regulatory objectives.  Criminal law should be used only if a person intentionally flouts the law or engages in conduct that is morally blameworthy or dangerous." -- Heritage Foundation

 

The issue is NJ's criminalization of firearms ownership.  

[Midwest 28]

These other sites are also covering the story

 

Calguns
Nyfirearms
keepandbeararms
pafoa
smith-wesson
ingunowners

[mipafox 438]

Nappen said "its a discriminatory and sexist law" I like his argument.

You like lies and sexist hysteria?

[PK90 3,570]

It's a shame the cop didn't just say "ma'am I appreciate your honesty, but you are gonna have to lock that gun in your trunk". Then helped her instead of arresting her. Unfortunately I doubt that happens in nj.

 

It did on occasion.

[Pythagoras 2]

This would be a complete non-issue in almost any other state in the country. I'm completely sick of NJ ignoring the United States Constitution.

 

No victim, no crime. F this state.

[maintenanceguy 510]

Nappen was on GFH radio this weekend discussing the case. I honestly feel bad for this lady. I know she broke the law but we all know its a bad law that's the real problem. Nappen said "its a discriminatory and sexist law" I like his argument. The Attorney General will be trying the case because Atlantic county doesn't have a prosecutor apparently. I don't know if she will get off but I hope Nappen wins it for her. The Judge will have his hands tied the mandatory minimum is 3years. The entire case will be up to our beloved AG. He already denied her the PTI option. I believe he intends to make an example out of this uninformed woman.

Then it was Chris Christie's AG that decided she wasn't eligible for PTI?  If so, we're seeing more of who Chris Christie really is on guns.

[DeerSlayer 241]

You like lies and sexist hysteria?

 

Of course I don't. Come on man!

 

listen to the broadcast when you get a minute. He is making the argument that our gun laws discriminate against specifically women, they are weaker than men. Men have a better chance of defending themselves in most instances. The laws discriminate against the weak (specifically women) being able to have a means to defend themselves against attack. Women are more often targeted for robbery or sexual assault in comparison to men. And men write as well as enforce the laws for the most part. Therefore: discriminatory and sexist law. I happen to agree with his sentiment.

[DeerSlayer 241]

Then it was Chris Christie's AG that decided she wasn't eligible for PTI? If so, we're seeing more of who Chris Christie really is on guns.

Yes according to Nappen she qualified fully for PTI and was willing to take it. This was during the time she was being represented by the public pretender. The AG refused to allow her to take PTI. Keep in mind this woman has always been a law abiding citizen, never any run ins with law enforcement, is a working mother of 2 children, employed in the medical field, and had been robbed twice in the past. The reason why she applied for and received a Philly LTCF, witch as I understand isn't so easy to get approved for. So yes its totally the scum bag AG that is forcing this case to trial. He also held her in county jail for 45 days until she retained Evan Nappen. He just got her bail and back home with her family while she awaits trial and spends maybe the last bit of time she has with her family for possibly the next 3 years minimum.

[JC_68Westy 1,024]

 

To me that is a sign you are probably still breaking them.

 

 

Do you spend the same amount of time researching vehicular codes when you travel to another state?

 

This shit is completely ridiculous, your expectations of your fellow gun owners are absurd and I am almost certain you have not met your own standards.

 

There is NODOBY on this forum that is certain or every firearm law in NJ. People are still arguing about laws that have been hashed over for years here and have existed for decades.

 

The last guy that said that told me hollowpoints were legal in NJ unless used in a crime.

 

When we gather as responsible gun owners, when we train, we tell each other that we must know what we are doing and take the law seriously, we inform each other of some of the pitfalls out there and we gain an awareness that there are certain things we need to look into and certain perils we must explore when traveling.

 

There is no good reason in These United States of America that owning a fucking gun should be the most perilous legal endeavor in which a common Citizen should engage and require the equivalences of a Juris Doctor to exercise responsibly.

 

NO! This woman is not our enemy, YOU are.

+1000.  A lot of NJ residents cannot comprehend constitutional carry (AK, AZ, AR, VT WY and OK).  A resident of these states doesn't need a CCW, LTCF, etc. and doesn't have to consider the legality of traveling while in their home state.  Many other states have legislation for constitutional carry introduced and some will pass.

[brucin 923]

These other sites are also covering the story

 

Calguns

Nyfirearms

keepandbeararms

pafoa

smith-wesson

ingunowners

 

Also being discussed here:

 

http://nyfirearms.com/forums/firearms-news/82185-unbelievable.html

 

Didn't see it at first but here's the direct link.

[Newtonian 453]

Then it was Chris Christie's AG that decided she wasn't eligible for PTI?  If so, we're seeing more of who Chris Christie really is on guns.

No huge surprise. Same guy who asked the Supremes not to hear Drake, correct?

[Newtonian 453]

I would hope, then, that awareness of more stricter States/laws would be part of any CCW training program. Have a pre-class "homework exercise"  or something where they are instructed to go on "usacarry.com" or "handgunlaw.us" and look up the laws in a given state, just for the practice of doing it (i.e. "Find the State/entity with the strictest gun laws"). Give a class reward for the people who come up with the "correct answer" (Dist. of Columbia ---> New York --> New Jersey, etc.). 

This is a reasonable suggestion. I took the Utah class at Heritage Guild in Easton. The instructor spent at least half an hour on his self-defense philosophy -- the circumstances under which he'd use his gun. I don't recall him at any time saying, "Stay away from these states." Maybe that was asking too much of a non-resident permit class. But certainly, every Pennsylvania resident who applies for a concealed carry permit should be warned not to stray over certain borders while carrying. Except for its rather modest border with W. Virginia, Penn. is completely surrounded by states that do not recognize its carry permits. 

[carl_g 568]

There is no "class" required to get your carry permit in PA.

[njpilot 671]

Maybe we should start calling and emailing Christie and demand he treat such instances with a fine and no prosecution. 

 

If criminal intent is obvious, that's a different story, but when it's a law-abiding citizen with a CCW who didn't realize how f'd up our laws are, they shouldn't be prosecuted.

 

Just like the nurse from TN in NYC at the Ground Zero Memorial.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

There is no "class" required to get your carry permit in PA.

 

Then, perhaps, that *is* part of the problem.   Perhaps, she honestly didn't know... although some things just seem so "intuitive."   At least she knew enough to be honest with the LEO and declare the concealed weapon.   Had she not, I'm thinking it would have gone much worse for her.

 

I took the "Multi-State" CCW course at the Quinton Sportsmen's club. I do recall that it was mentioned several times to "know the laws of all states where you intend to possess, own, rent, transport, carry, use etc. etc." any firearm.   We were shown examples of how to look up the laws on usacarry.com and hangunlaw.us.  If Philly is not requiring a training class with this level of detail, then it should. I would think they'd want to do that, so that someone like this lady could not bring legal action against the city for failure to prepare her adequately for the responsibilities of carrying her weapon so close to a state that has these restrictions.

[jackandjill 683]

Maybe we should start calling and emailing Christie and demand he treat such instances with a fine and no prosecution. 

 

If criminal intent is obvious, that's a different story, but when it's a law-abiding citizen with a CCW who didn't realize how f'd up our laws are, they shouldn't be prosecuted.

 

Just like the nurse from TN in NYC at the Ground Zero Memorial.

^^^^ THIS.  No wonder rest of the country has very little, if any respect for NJ. NJ Citizens must show that they have balls and willing to  support such cause. Otherwise, dont expect other states or NRA to come to rescue when we need them.

 

I have seen lot of emails and campaigns from CA-FFL group. They make it really easy to fill out a form and let politicians know of opinion. Why are NJ groups not that active ?

[jtd771 18]

Sounds to me that this woman should be a poster child for how insane our laws are.  Hardworking, single mother of two, law abiding citizen with no past criminal history and a woman of color who made a genuine mistake.  Why should she be treated worse than someone who has demonstrated themselves to be a career criminal.  This should be all over the news and the community should be demanding not only her release but a re-evaluation of the laws that would allow her to incarcerated.  

[CMJeepster 2,777]

Where are Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton?

[Porthole 15]

This ought to get interesting.

 

Suppose just for a minute, this 27 year old had ill intentions? Suppose the LEO who stopped her did not arrest her? Suppose a 26 year old was stopped and properly arrested in 1973?

 

She had a permit and the responsibility to know the law, in her own state and certainly any state she travels through.

 

My entire youth and young adult years I was lectured to that there is no excuse for ignorance of the law.

 

"If" she is truly just ignorant of our laws and "if" this was a completely innocent mistake, then I feel there should be some leeway. But, our laws are written with no room for leniency with firearms.

There was no leniency for the prosecutor in north jersey with his innocently obtained and possessed Marlin 22 tube fed rifle.

 

If you are legally entitled to carry - do so legally. Doesn't matter whether we agree with our laws or not. Very few here probably could afford the consequences. I know I can't.

 

I certainly don't agree with the defense turning this into a sexist and racist defense.

This is a ludicrous statement:

 

“New Jersey has a history of racist and sexist gun laws. Women are denied the means of self-defense against larger stronger men.”

“New Jersey’s earliest gun laws banned Blacks and Indians from possessing guns. Apparently, not much has changed. End the madness. ...............................  No more innocent victims of New Jersey draconian, racist, sexist gun laws, that are out of step with the rest of America.”

Once upon a time there was a 26 year old woman that also carried weapons.

 

 

 

They could probably even pass for siblings.

http://www.ammoland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Shaneen-Allen-License-to-Carry-Firearms.jpg

http://acatheunderground.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/joanne-chesimard.jpg