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Newtonian

Another Victim of Senseless NJ Laws

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Am I allowed to wright to the prosecutor and let him know what a POS scumbag he is? Is there any legal ramifications to doing this?

I actually think ALL of us should write the prosecutor!

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perhaps a group of citizens exercising their 1st amendment rights holding large placards at the courthouse explaining jury nullification?   maybe some public service announcements, mailers or billboards explaining the same.        

You can bet that anyone who mentions the term "jury nullification" during this trial will himself receive a 30-day sentence. The judge will expressly tell the jury that their only options are guilty or not guilty according to the evidence and the law. 

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Am I allowed to wright to the prosecutor and let him know what a POS scumbag he is? Is there any legal ramifications to doing this?

Sure you can! He'll be so touched that he'll drop the case, apologize, and buy the lady a $5,000 Cabela's gift certificate.

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You can bet that anyone who mentions the term "jury nullification" during this trial will himself receive a 30-day sentence. The judge will expressly tell the jury that their only options are guilty or not guilty according to the evidence and the law. 

 

I am no lawyer. But if "jury nullification" can't be mentioned, can the defendant use (the fact that nullification can't be mentioned)   for an appeal (if she is found guilty) ? 

 

Nappen (her lawyer ) could not mention jury nullification?

 

Is this just limited to New Jersey?

 

When can 'jury nullification' be mentioned?

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Jury nullification is one of those legal issues that defies logic.

 

It's perfectly legal, but the courts have consistently ruled that judges can and should prevent juries from being told that they can engage in it.

 

Because the law...

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Why do these people not know the laws of the state they are trying to carry in? You have enough sense to carry but you cant take 5 minutes to learn some laws? I know our laws are screwy but come on.

I agree. I am sure that everyone in Jersey that has a cc Florida or Utah permit knows exactly where it is good and where it is not.  Certainly, you should know if your border states honor it?  

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 Fox 4 out of Dallas is picking up the story again . This time they are saying she could face 11 years behind bars. But read the comments afterward below.

 

 

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/26222456/honest-gun-owning-mom-now-facing-11-years-behind-bars

 

 

"

After hearing about the case, most people thought there's no way she would do time for an honest mistake. Well, yesterday she was in court and she can now face a maximum sentence of 11.5 years in prison. Ten years for possession of a weapon and another 18 months for possession of the bullets. Allen's attorney Evan Nappen discussed how a person with no prior offenses could end up spending a decade behind bars for being honest."

 

 

 

What does the rest of the country think? Many of the comments after the article were from the Dallas/Forth Worth area

 

"This is a waste of tax payers money. Go after real criminals and leave law abiding citizens alone! Unreal to think of all the waste involved, typical liberal logic."

 

"Making criminals out of honest people...."

 

"This is just wrong. I pray they have a jury who believes in firearms and the right to protect one's self."

 

"So I take it no one in New Jersey is allowed to protect themselves. This is wrong and it makes no sense she was licensed to carry it. That is crazy."

 

"tried to apply for a NJ concealed carry permit once. I went to the police station and asked for the paper work. Instead of giving me the forms to fill out they asked me "What do you do for a living?" I told them I'm an engineer. They wouldn't even give me the paperwork. They essentially said unless I was a cop I wouldn't get one so they wouldn't let me apply. Didn't deny my application - they didn't even let me apply."

 

""Jury Nullification."

Say it loud. Say it often."

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I agree. I am sure that everyone in Jersey that has a cc Florida or Utah permit knows exactly where it is good and where it is not.  Certainly, you should know if your border states honor it?  

Were you aware on the day that PA stopped recognizing your non-resident permits that they were no longer valid in PA?  This was not widely advertised.  Many resources on the web were a few days behind the PA change.  How could you possibly keep abreast of all administrative code changes?  This is a prome example of when to use discretion (both the trooper and the prosecutor)

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Were you aware on the day that PA stopped recognizing your non-resident permits that they were no longer valid in PA?  This was not widely advertised.  Many resources on the web were a few days behind the PA change.  How could you possibly keep abreast of all administrative code changes?  This is a prome example of when to use discretion (both the trooper and the prosecutor)

 

 

 

 

 

big difference in a permit that was valid and then not a day later through a reciprocity change...and a permit or the right to carry itself  thats never been recognized ......i would almost believe she had to know..but chose to disregard it and when stopped thought shed fess up and play dumb in the hopes honesty would be her best policy.....and is sticking to the story and playing the "look at me the poor single mother victim" who was "snared by njs complicated laws"  ......

 

i remember when it first happened looking into it...she was alone in the vehicle @ 0100-0200hrs on the expressway heading to ac....there were pics she had posted on Facebook in some crazy outfit talking about going to ac and having "fun" ....as well as other posted prior to then holding the gun in all sorts of poses mugging and taking selfies...trying too look all "hard/gangsta"....but all those shortly after the arrest have been taken down...and all appearances turned to her in scrubs with stethoscope around her neck....juggling her kids for the camera ..and listing her as a phlebotomist ...and  recently i saw an interview and she said home health aide....my point is not what she does or what she wears or acts like  ...but that the story is ever evolving/subtly changing....to gain the most support..which i get is the best option for her and jury nullification....

 

but lets be real here for a second.....going to the cesspool that is ac dressed in some crazy outfit @ 0100-0200hrs makes sense as a "poor struggling single mother"?...and feeling that her destination will require the need to be armed.....where were the kids?...if she was the loving mother shouldn't she been home with them and not going to ac @ 0200hrs?..to do what ?....too may red flags for me 

 

while i don't agree with the laws limiting civilian/"mortal" carry in nj ..... it is the current law and that while its everyones personal choice to disregard laws they feel unfair/unjust/unconstitutional etc ....they know going in if its on the books there is also a penalty on the books if caught in violation and if they choose to disregard the law then they need to own the penalty.....not after the fact ask for special considerations because the law is "dumb" or your just some single mom or whatever.....

 

just last night on another forum i saw a link posted with another interview where now they have introduced a clean-cut polo shirt wearing male into the mix and THEY say ...THEY were heading to a "surprise birthday party for the 2(?) year old" ([email protected] 0200hrs what kinda party is that?) while they show the guy outside playing with the kids...and the kids riding on each others lap smiling and driving some electric car.....and "mom" still in the scrubs and stethoscope ......i just can't get behind her and the ever changing story ......i understand the logic for the defense of painting her as a victim....and creating the apple pie family on their was to a family outing jammed up by "jack booted thug police" and all but.... just too much life experience for me to not see throughout the bs here 

 

perhaps the jury will judge the stupidity of the law ...and not her actually breaking the law...and it might have an unintended consequence of bringing about some change in the law ...........lmao yeah right its nj cancel that...  :sarcastic:

 

 

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I am no lawyer. But if "jury nullification" can't be mentioned, can the defendant use (the fact that nullification can't be mentioned)   for an appeal (if she is found guilty) ? 

 

Nappen (her lawyer ) could not mention jury nullification?

 

Is this just limited to New Jersey?

 

When can 'jury nullification' be mentioned?

I'm no lawyer either.

 

Jury nullification is an old legal construct that was instituted to protect us against exactly the kinds of laws that the defendant in this case has violated; the last line of defense against a tyrannical government.

 

That's the way it might have been, or might be, or should be but from what I've heard judges go ballistic if a defense attorney brings up nullification. 

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Jury nullification is not a legal construct. It was not written into law on purpose. It was not created to help anyone. It was not instituted as a last line of defense against tyranny :facepalm:

 

It is an unintended consequence of two other laws followed to a logical conclusion:

 

1) Jury can not be punished for a "wrong" decision

 

And

 

2) A defendant can not be tried twice for the same crime/double jeopardy

 

Seriously, watch the cartoon I posted above.

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Jury nullification is not a legal construct. It was not written into law on purpose. It was not created to help anyone. It was not instituted as a last line of defense against tyranny :facepalm:

 

It is an unintended consequence of two other laws followed to a logical conclusion:

 

1) Jury can not be punished for a "wrong" decision

 

And

 

2) A defendant can not be tried twice for the same crime/double jeopardy

 

Seriously, watch the cartoon I posted above.

 

I do not believe your exclusions are true. It may not have been mentioned in your video, but Jury Nullification is a long -understood component of Common Law in my understanding. It is not simply a quirk, but a traditional component of justice. I agree with Newtonian.

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I do not believe your exclusions are true. It may not have been mentioned in your video, but Jury Nullification is a long -understood component of Common Law in my understanding. It is not simply a quirk, but a traditional component of justice. I agree with Newtonian.

 

And the ironic thing is, it can also work for the other side, as well (i.e. "reverse nullification").  That is, a jury can "convict" a person, even when there is sufficient "reasonable doubt," etc. etc.   And I think a lot of prosecutors count on it. I know the one at my last juror experience did.  He did not succeed.

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Jury Nullification is the 4th branch of government in criminal matters.  That branch is the people.

 

Even if a bad law makes it through the legislature, through the executive, and then is upheld by the courts, the jury still gets to rule against a bad law.

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I'm afraid the prosecutor is going to be "instructed" by higher authority to make this go away,  The last thing Christie wants is going to have to explain his lack of action and leadership to the rest of the country about his true views of the second amendment.   This case needs to go to trial and the jury needs to give a not guilty verdict.     Jurists need to know that all of NJ's gun laws are based on rulings that have been made obsolete and need to know this in advance as the judge will instruct them on NJ's unconstitutional laws and not current supreme or circuit court rulings. 

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If it goes to trail it will be guilty. Look at Brian Aitken. The judge wouldn't even let the jury know that there are exceptions for moving in handgun possession. I don't think it should have mattered, he wasn't moving the handguns, and had other violations, but still it should have been up to the jury to decide.

 

If by some miracle it goes to trial and she is found not guilty, presumably due to mens rea (which should not apply in this case since she knew she had the gun), what good would that do? NJ laws still stand.

 

The best thing that can happen is this women gets off by any means whatsoever, including the prosecutor dropping the charges or lowering them to something extremely minor. She also melts my socks a little, cute mom.

 

There is no opportunity for a political win from a mere jury judgment that I can see. The only political win is media attention about what a shitty state New Jersey is.

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I have mixed feelings.  First, I do not want this innocent woman to do another day in prison.

 

but, if she does get 3 years, it will make national media attention, may help national reciprocity, and is certainly the sort of case that could wind it's way slowly to win back some of our rights in a higher court.

 

If I were king, she would get off.  But if she's convicted, this needs to be a tragedy that we do not let go to waste.

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I've never served on a jury but I'm looking forward to when I get called. Strangely enough when I lived in NY I was always getting the questionnaires. When I moved to NJ I got nada. My wife however was called twice.

I got kicked off during selection for not being stupid enough. They found out I was an Engineer, and the judge asked me if I would be willing to believe the opinion of an expert if I knew his opinion was false beyond doubt. I told him they couldn't beat that into me and they told me to leave.

 

It's a game. Truth is not considered in the determination of justice.

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I never even got that far. It's as if the NJ courts completely forgot that I exist. My wife and I have roughly the same level of education in somewhat similar fields (my degree is in EE, hers in comp sci). We are even both naturalized citizens but she was naturalized long before I was.

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I've never served on a jury but I'm looking forward to when I get called. Strangely enough when I lived in NY I was always getting the questionnaires. When I moved to NJ I got nada. My wife however was called twice.

 

A lot depends on the number and kind of cases on the docket and how many prospective jurors they need. In the 22+ years I've lived where I do, I've been summoned twice. The first time, I didn't make it past voire/dire (i.e. the entire panel got picked before they got to me), and I wasn't called to report again that session. The 2nd time was precisely 4 years ago, this month, and I was impaneled (you can read about the case in this thread).

 

In Sussex County, I can imagine you not being summoned for quite some time. Here in Warren County, we are probably a bit more active as we have a bigger stretch of I-80 as well as I-78 and, thus, more potential for "highway drug deal/stops/busts."

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