OB USPSA 7-27-14

[Heavyopp 167]

Scores are up --  

 

I need to speed up --  In every stage except the qualifier I had the highest amount of points for SS --  My times suck

 

Time to let go and move...

[Vlad G 345]

If it started earlier it would finish earlier. Just sayin.

 

Are you volunteering to start building an hour earlier? DO you think people will show up an hour earlier to sign up? It's not as Jim and Dave are just taking a nap before the match starts.

[Hops 0]

People just need to shoot faster

Good idea. I see someone shot stage stage 2 in 11 seconds. That is crazy fast. Did not think it was possible. We should ask him for pointers on shooting really fast.

[Vlad G 345]

That is one of the issues with electronic scoring. If someone fat fingers data entry, there is very little you can do about it.

[Hops 0]

That is one of the issues with electronic scoring. If someone fat fingers data entry, there is very little you can do about it.

Thats too bad. If its wrong it changes the overall standing.

[Vlad G 345]

Yep. In some ways this is ALWAYS a problem with random people scoring. At major matches you have dedicated RO's who's job is to get this right. At local matches, everyone is hot, busy, chatting, and scoring is considered a chore. Someone always rushes, mis-enters some data etc. Note, this can and has happen with paper too.

 

The only fix is for people to take REALLY seriously and pay attention to what they are doing.

[Howard 538]

Are you volunteering to start building an hour earlier? DO you think people will show up an hour earlier to sign up? It's not as Jim and Dave are just taking a nap before the match starts.

YES, IF!  The IF is that I would if there is a commitment to start earlier - like first shot at 9am.  I have a long drive so no I don't want to get there at 7:30 to start at 10:45.

[Howard 538]

Scores are up --  

 

I need to speed up --  In every stage except the qualifier I had the highest amount of points for SS --  My times suck

 

Time to let go and move...

I feel your pain - that is always my problem too.  It was even more of a problem Sunday since I could not even run.  On most stages my points were good but my times went by the calendar rather than by the clock  But then there was that darn Texas star.  I had no problem with any of the steel the entire match, yet I just cannot hit that freaking star.  I think I went through a mag and a half to clear all five.  I think next time I just need to aim where the plates aren't - that way maybe they will be there when the bullet arrives

[Howard 538]

Good idea. I see someone shot stage stage 2 in 11 seconds. That is crazy fast. Did not think it was possible. We should ask him for pointers on shooting really fast.

Wow they could have done it three times and beaten me

[2Alpha 6]

I guess I must have been the problem.  It took me double that time, but on the bright side I did get all 80 points.  I really need to learn to risk giving up some points to get better times.

 

Don't shoot faster. do everything else faster

[Howard 538]

Don't shoot faster. do everything else faster

No, I need to shoot faster, but I understand what you mean.  I too often find I go bang........wait for it..........wait for it.......bang, rather than bang bang!  I know I should not do that, but knowledge and actions can be different.  I need to find the right mix between speed an accuracy.  When I try to shoot faster I just seem to forget about those sights that I paid for and my points suffer.  Not sure how to go about finding that optimum mix.

[2Alpha 6]

No, I need to shoot faster, but I understand what you mean.  I too often find I go bang........wait for it..........wait for it.......bang, rather than bang bang!  I know I should not do that, but knowledge and actions can be different.  I need to find the right mix between speed an accuracy.  When I try to shoot faster I just seem to forget about those sights that I paid for and my points suffer.  Not sure how to go about finding that optimum mix.

 

That's the mental problem right there. Its not between speed and accuracy, it is accuracy with speed.  Not a mix of the them, a maximum of both.  Plus most slow shooters add more time by wandering around the stage then on splits

[1gun 0]

Good idea. I see someone shot stage stage 2 in 11 seconds. That is crazy fast. Did not think it was possible. We should ask him for pointers on shooting really fast.

The video he posted shows him finishing the steel in 11 seconds. The timer missed the next 11 seconds.

[Howard 538]

That's the mental problem right there. Its not between speed and accuracy, it is accuracy with speed.  Not a mix of the them, a maximum of both.  Plus most slow shooters add more time by wandering around the stage then on splits

So now you are calling me a mental case   I do understand this conceptually

[Charlie Mike 0]

The video he posted shows him finishing the steel in 11 seconds. The timer missed the next 11 seconds.

Do you have a link to the video?

[Heavyopp 167]

Looks like a quite a few guys didn't even shoot stage 3 --  They have zeros and are shooters who shouldn't have zeros

[1gun 0]

Do you have a link to the video?

Yes.

[Xdmjohn 0]

https://www.facebook.com/louie.primero?fref=ts

[alec.mc 180]

Alec -- How did you like the qualifier?  How many shots did you get off?

 

I dont care much for those super long range classifiers personally, though - I should start practicing more at that distance.

I got the reload off each time, and 1 or 2 shoots after that. 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't shoot faster. do everything else faster

 

 

2alpha is dead on with this, look up some youtube videos of some major matches like the super squad at nationals, Their split times are pretty average, i'd say an average of .18-.25 ( depending on division and distance ) . It's everything else a GM does besides actually shooting that puts them so far ahead of everybody else. Eliminating un-needed movements, transitions, moving in and out of shooting positions, etc.

[Charlie Mike 0]

https://www.facebook.com/louie.primero?fref=ts

 

Looking at the video it looks pretty clear that the stage took 21 to 22 seconds.  I would bet that the scorekeeper was trying to type 21 seconds and fat-fingered it like Vlad mentioned and accidentally hit 11 seconds.  Seems like a pretty easy error to fix, right?  Honest mistake.

[raz-0 1,259]

YES, IF!  The IF is that I would if there is a commitment to start earlier - like first shot at 9am.  I have a long drive so no I don't want to get there at 7:30 to start at 10:45.

 

Protip: 7:30 isn't really "earlier". There are very often folks there starting building by 7:30.

[Jim Norman 5]

Looking at the video it looks pretty clear that the stage took 21 to 22 seconds.  I would bet that the scorekeeper was trying to type 21 seconds and fat-fingered it like Vlad mentioned and accidentally hit 11 seconds.  Seems like a pretty easy error to fix, right?  Honest mistake.

Unfortunately it is not easy to fix. I have two choices, 1) I can accept the time as entered, but I know it is not valid based on video evidence, whch is generally not allowed, or I can since I know he could not have run the course this fast and I have no way of knowing what his actual tme is, I can zero the stage. Had this been brought up before tear down, we'd have ordered a reshoot.

 

This is not the only scoring issue. We have people that don't take the time to make sure they are scoring the correct shooter. we get to a stage and Shooter Joe is calle dto the line to shoot and we see that he already has ascore entered. Whose score is it? We don't know. What can we do? Copy the errant score to paper and enter the proper score. Maybe we can deterimine who owns it, maybe we can't Especially true if there are more than one errant scores recorded.

[Jim Norman 5]

YES, IF!  The IF is that I would if there is a commitment to start earlier - like first shot at 9am.  I have a long drive so no I don't want to get there at 7:30 to start at 10:45.

Howard, people are on the range at 7am building the match. It takes evry bit of the time to build that we use. If more people helped build, we could be done, get the walk-through done and be shooting at 1000. we will not be shooting at 0900 or 0930. The real problem is not the build, or even the start at 1030. It is the lack of taping, setting, preparing, adhering to a 5 minute walk-through that really slows it down. In teh 'Old Days' we called out a shooting order: On-Deck, Hole, Tape, Tape, Steel, Steel, Brass, Brass. add the shooter, the RO and CRO and we are at 10 people, everyone working. as an added benefit, we all got our brass back. If we have the usual 12-14 shooter squads, a couple peole each rotation can sit out. We can't have EVERYONE sitting out,

 

Do the math, 5 minutes to get to the next stage, 6 minutes to read the Stage Description and walk the stage, then the shooters. give the shooter a full 1-1/2 minutes to prep and shoot. Should not need more than 1-1/2 minutes to set, with 12 on a squad we are already up to 47 minutes per stage, multiply by 7 and you get 5-1/2 hours. We are generally done shooting and cleaning up by 4pm which is exactly what this predicts, BUT if too many people sit on their butts (figuratively speaking of course) and don't tape, set or prep for their turn and we add as little as 30 seconds per shooter per stage and well that is an additional 42 minutes on the match. If each squad does its part we get it all in. If one squad takes it easy, we get backed up. Not all back-ups are actually the result of a slow squad. Sometimes a stage is particularly fast and that squad 'catches up' to the squad on the next stage, that happens, but if two squads catch p it is USUALLY an indication of a slow group. We do what we can to make stages roughly equal in time, but that doesn't always work.

[Charlie Mike 0]

Unfortunately it is not easy to fix. I have two choices, 1) I can accept the time as entered, but I know it is not valid based on video evidence, whch is generally not allowed, or I can since I know he could not have run the course this fast and I have no way of knowing what his actual tme is, I can zero the stage. Had this been brought up before tear down, we'd have ordered a reshoot.

 

This is not the only scoring issue. We have people that don't take the time to make sure they are scoring the correct shooter. we get to a stage and Shooter Joe is calle dto the line to shoot and we see that he already has ascore entered. Whose score is it? We don't know. What can we do? Copy the errant score to paper and enter the proper score. Maybe we can deterimine who owns it, maybe we can't Especially true if there are more than one errant scores recorded.

Zeroing it out kinda stinks.  the score sheet says 11:46, when I time it I get between 21 and 22 seconds.  Its possible the time was 21:46 and the scorer fat fingered it.  Its still pretty fresh, why cant we ask the shooter, RO,  and the scorer if they remember if the time, or if it was 21:46.  Its worth a shot. 

 

If it was 21:46, how does that effect the winners and ranking of the match? 

 

Its a shitty situation.  but going forward, maybe we can mention that the shooter, RO, and scorer all take a look at the timer and the nook before it is saved.  Maybe we can get a positive out of this and avoid it in the future?

[Howard 538]

Even with having people check scores thing can go south. I was at one match where I checked my score on the tablet after shooting and all was well. Later in the stage I asked to check it and I was listed that I had not yet shot. Things happen. The only thing I can think of is the way they do Glock matches with handwritten and Carbon copies where the RO and shooter both verify and sign and each keeps a paper copy. But it would take a long time and a lot of work to see scores.

 

 

As for timing of a match I understand what everyone is saying. Living in western Morris county I was just saying that for me to get there at 7:30 and then not start much earlier would entail a 12 hour day door to door. Except for this Sunday where I could barely walk I am always out taping like crazy except when I might be reloading.

[Jim Norman 5]

Zeroing it out kinda stinks.  the score sheet says 11:46, when I time it I get between 21 and 22 seconds.  Its possible the time was 21:46 and the scorer fat fingered it.  Its still pretty fresh, why cant we ask the shooter, RO,  and the scorer if they remember if the time, or if it was 21:46.  Its worth a shot. 

 

If it was 21:46, how does that effect the winners and ranking of the match? 

 

Its a shitty situation.  but going forward, maybe we can mention that the shooter, RO, and scorer all take a look at the timer and the nook before it is saved.  Maybe we can get a positive out of this and avoid it in the future?

I am all in favor of making this lemon into lemonade. It is entirely possible it was 21.36. I will ask. maybe the shooter will volunteer?

[Jim Norman 5]

Even with having people check scores thing can go south. I was at one match where I checked my score on the tablet after shooting and all was well. Later in the stage I asked to check it and I was listed that I had not yet shot. Things happen. The only thing I can think of is the way they do Glock matches with handwritten and Carbon copies where the RO and shooter both verify and sign and each keeps a paper copy. But it would take a long time and a lot of work to see scores.

 

 

As for timing of a match I understand what everyone is saying. Living in western Morris county I was just saying that for me to get there at 7:30 and then not start much earlier would entail a 12 hour day door to door. Except for this Sunday where I could barely walk I am always out taping like crazy except when I might be reloading.

Howard, I understand the long days. my match day is usually 12 hours BEFORE I get home and work on the scores. As for checking the Nook and saving our score and then later finding it missing. Yes it COULD happen, but more likely is that your score was either A) recorded on another shooters slot, OR it was never actually saved. When we originally went to Palms, I printed out scoresheets for everyone, No takers. And there is NO reason one cannot copy their scores down on their own if they really wanted to.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

Heck, we used to take pictures of our score sheets when shooting steel with our cell phones. That way when my wife bribed the RO's to "fix" her score so she could out-shoot me I could prove to her I actually won. 

[alec.mc 180]

dont +2 me bro

[Hops 0]

dont +2 me bro

Hey come on, lets not go there.