Jump to content
mag1

Wilson Combat SG vs TE

Recommended Posts

This has been bothering me for over a year.

Wilson Combat(WC) makes a Supergrade (SG), CQB, Tactical Elite (TE), and a bunch of other models. The Supergrade is their flagship 1911.

 

The definition of a Supergrade is "a Wilson 1911 with higher quality requirements built by a Supergrade gunsmith with no definite time slot".

 

From what i have been reading, there is an accuracy difference over 25 yards at 1" between a SG and other models at bench rest.. . I forget what the yardage is between the SG and say CQB model but there is a difference in accuracy per WC.

 

Guys like me believe that a WC SG is a custom 1911, not semi production. Which I am more than happy to hear and pay for.

 

But:

 

Since the higher quality requirements can only be fulfilled by a SG gunsmith, there can be no other WC 1911 with higher quality requirements, right?

 

On the WC website, there is no tactical elite (TE) SG. But I have seen at least 3 in the past 2 years that have been produced.

 

Rumors are that the TE is not offered as a SG due to the fact that the tolerances and fitting is  just about the same as a SG. So WC does not offer this model.

 

 

Then, a 1911 not built by a SG gunsmith is not a SG. 

So if people start to argue that there is no difference between a TE and SG, the entire SG being the best of the best would completely collapse, right?

 

Just seeing what you WC fans think.

 

Please no EB is better than WC, or I would never spend $3-6K on a 1911. There is a difference, period

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not quite sure what you are asking?

 

But I think you are comparing apples to oranges. The Tactical Elite seems to fill a more specific role. It's built with a cone barrel, and is no doubt built to very high standards.

 

When getting into 1911s at the level of the Supergrade, you aren't only paying for tight fit and accuracy. A SG is not going to perform THAT much better than a CQB, and definitely not even noticeable for the average user. What you do pay for though, is more attention to detail. Things like hand polishing of all internals to remove tool and burr marks. All lines on the gun are made to be straight and true. There are little things one looks for at this level. Basically, extra time spent making sure the gun is as perfect as possible. Don't think this necessarily translates to a higher functioning pistol. At this level, you are paying for some degree of aesthetics, and pride of ownership.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A SG does not perform any better than a CQB from my experience with shooting out to about 35 yards.

In a bench rest, supposedly it does at 50 yards.

I have never tried to shoot this far with any of my 1911 .45s. A 230gr drops 2.5" at 50 yards, give or take. Not my choice at this distance with a .45

 

 

The price difference between a SG and other non-SG models is based on the the extra 10 hours or so the SG smith puts into the gun for the reasons you stated above. You have to be pretty experienced with a 1911 to tell the difference of the internals. Externally, identical in my experience. Maybe I have been fortunate to own one of the best CQBs made, lol, I doubt it.

 

I had just heard a rumor that WC will not produce a  TESG because the TE has the same amount of extra smith time  that a SG has (Not cost effective for the consumer).

 

So looks like the answer to my question is...

WC will only put the Supergrade name on a 1911 that is built by a SG smith only.

The TE is not built by a SG smith, hence there will be no TESG.

Even though the extra amount of smith time  put into a SG and a TE for extra "whatever" and fitting,  the 2 pistols are much alike, but the TE is still not a SG.

 

But what puzzles me is:

There are a couple of TESG's floating out there that were made, but WC will no longer make any because it is not cost effective.

If these tactical elites are so magical, and from the owners that I have talked with and read their posts they are,

then I want one, but I can not stand the looks of the barrel.

Any yes, for me, I would only want a supergrade for the pride of ownership.

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a WC Tactical Elite on order. Should be here in about 18 months. I collect 1911s and wanted another Wilson that was a little different then the others so I got the TE with the flanged barrel. Maybe it takes them another 10 hours to fit the flanged barrel...I dont know.

 

I think Wilson Combat makes very nice 1911s so thats the main reason I buy them. I personally dont think its worth the extra money to get the Supergrade since I am very impressed with my lower priced models. The Supergrade that I did own at one time was traded for a newer toy.  I have/had Nighthawk Customs that were made by one master gunsmith (who used to be a master gunsmith at Wilson before leaving them). To be honest, the difference between those master grade guns and the lower priced NH and WC that I own/owned was very subtle.

 

To take things a step further, I dont think of any Wilson Combat gun as a true custom gun. Yes, you can get everything you want on it and eliminate the things you dont for a custom feel...so you have a custom ordered 1911. To me, what makes it a true custom is being able to order it the way I want and also have regular dialogue with the builder on how the project is going. The builder gets to know the shooter and finds out what the pistol will be used for, the type of shooting the shooter does, and other specifics like ammo choices, recoil sensitivity, grip size, and hand positioning on the pistol. All these things define what a true custom 1911 build is. Its the difference b/t a tailor made suit made to your measurements and an off the rack designer suit that needs some alterations. One is made to fit you and the other you have to fit it.

 

Here is an example....I had one of my 1911s made by a famous gunsmith years ago. He knew what I wanted and told me that when he was half way done he wanted me to drive out to his house to let me see the gun in person. I thought that would be neat so I agreed to meet him at his shop which was four hours away. Keep in mind that we would talk on the phone every couple weeks about shooting and 1911s and the type of shooter I am so he knew alot about me and how to build the gun to my 'specs'. When I met up with him he took me to his outdoor range and I shot the gun for about 100 rounds. He watched how I gripped the gun, how I handled recoil, every little nuance of my shooting. We talked after on how the gun felt to me and how I liked it. He then took all that information and modified the gun even more after our range session. The end result was a true custom 1911 that felt like a true extension of my hand. Now that example is an extreme and I would not expect WC to give that level of customization but there has to be a relationship and good rapport  b/t the builder and the customer in order to know what that customer truly wants with his 1911. I know that WC does not do that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I gotta agree with Bullzeye on this. While the Supergrade is a fine pistol I'm sure, and having the backing of Wilson Combat definitely does give some peace of mind (great cs/warranty), for that money and similar wait time, you can commission a 100% custom 1911 from the finest pistolsmiths today. For almost the same money, you can get a piece by Jason Burton. You can easily get something by Jim Garthwaite too.

 

Another reason I would agree with going with an independent custom shop is because you have the option of any quality part you like. Wilson Combat makes some great parts, but there are a few things I would prefer from other manufacturers (ie. sights and barrels). Also, I'm not sure if Wilson does anything other than 30lpi checkering on the frame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was recently looking at WC's site. Looking for a future purchase but couldn't make up my mind.

 

While the SG's are nice, I'd never spend that kinda cash with WC. I'd personally rather spend it on a full custom.

 

That being said, I think the difference is half inch between the models at 25 yards. That's not to say the cqb can't match that same 1" though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a WC Tactical Elite on order. Should be here in about 18 months. I collect 1911s and wanted another Wilson that was a little different then the others so I got the TE with the flanged barrel. Maybe it takes them another 10 hours to fit the flanged barrel...I dont know.

 

I think Wilson Combat makes very nice 1911s so thats the main reason I buy them. I personally dont think its worth the extra money to get the Supergrade since I am very impressed with my lower priced models. The Supergrade that I did own at one time was traded for a newer toy.  I have/had Nighthawk Customs that were made by one master gunsmith (who used to be a master gunsmith at Wilson before leaving them). To be honest, the difference between those master grade guns and the lower priced NH and WC that I own/owned was very subtle.

 

To take things a step further, I dont think of any Wilson Combat gun as a true custom gun. Yes, you can get everything you want on it and eliminate the things you dont for a custom feel...so you have a custom ordered 1911. To me, what makes it a true custom is being able to order it the way I want and also have regular dialogue with the builder on how the project is going. The builder gets to know the shooter and finds out what the pistol will be used for, the type of shooting the shooter does, and other specifics like ammo choices, recoil sensitivity, grip size, and hand positioning on the pistol. All these things define what a true custom 1911 build is. Its the difference b/t a tailor made suit made to your measurements and an off the rack designer suit that needs some alterations. One is made to fit you and the other you have to fit it.

 

Here is an example....I had one of my 1911s made by a famous gunsmith years ago. He knew what I wanted and told me that when he was half way done he wanted me to drive out to his house to let me see the gun in person. I thought that would be neat so I agreed to meet him at his shop which was four hours away. Keep in mind that we would talk on the phone every couple weeks about shooting and 1911s and the type of shooter I am so he knew alot about me and how to build the gun to my 'specs'. When I met up with him he took me to his outdoor range and I shot the gun for about 100 rounds. He watched how I gripped the gun, how I handled recoil, every little nuance of my shooting. We talked after on how the gun felt to me and how I liked it. He then took all that information and modified the gun even more after our range session. The end result was a true custom 1911 that felt like a true extension of my hand. Now that example is an extreme and I would not expect WC to give that level of customization but there has to be a relationship and good rapport  b/t the builder and the customer in order to know what that customer truly wants with his 1911. I know that WC does not do that.

Good post, thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I talked with WC, and they do put more time into fitting the barrel on the TE. More smith time, more money. I get it.

 

As for a SG vs FHC...The rep for WC says that a SG is their FHC. WC other 1911 are semi-custom. 

 

$4500 for a SG may be steep for many when you can get a bare CQB for $2800. If you customize the CQB like a SG, then the cost difference between the 2 is $1300-$1400. For that, you get what?? One definite is the extra smith time they put into the SG. I do not know what smiths get per hour, but I do know one of those SG smiths can build a SG for $2500 and still make a profit. Don't ask me to validate that, but I am going off a good memory

 

Accuracy, I bet none of us can tell. Their accuracy is off a ransom rest.

My friends who do own a TE do say the recoil is less than non-flanged barrels. That I bet you can tell the difference.

 

For resale: I have never lost any money, except for shipping/FFL fees on my SGs that I have sold.  I have lost a couple hundred on the CQBs that I have sold. I lost the most on my FHCs, and they were the toughest to sell.

This isnt a thread of WC vs FHC..We all know the differences, wait times, prices, etc. 

 

I have compared SGs to my other 1911s. There are subtle differences, but nothing that stands out, especially on the exterior.

 

So the good news is for me after starting this thread is....I may be having a TESG on order, just waiting for the approval from WC. They are not best known for making special orders happen, but on occasion, they do depending on how their day is going.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...