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Are You Leaving NJ in the Next 5 Years?

  

253 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you plan to leave NJ in the next 5 years?

    • Yes
      169
    • No
      50
    • Already Gone
      27
    • I'm a cop Yes
      3
    • I'm a cop No
      4


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wow how do you respond to such a post. I wonder if anyone else thought that's what I was going for. Damn I just wanted to join in, you guys always so unfriendly to the new guy? Or am I a special case. Beeee nice .

No "hard" feelings, pun intended...:lol: You will find many of us are realistic here. I will stop hazing you now. Again I respect your choices to live here, and feel the way you do about the Right to Self Protection. You can take the boy out of Jersey, but you can't take the Jersey out of the boy.

 

 

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You don't have to apologize about anything. I'm not the arbiter of right and wrong around here so JMHO. If you are going to give it, be prepared to take it.

 

And, yeah, there shouldn't be aggravation over where to live. It's not like it's Eagles vs. Cowboys :)

What did I "give" lol I mean seriously. And my mistake but to me it did seem that you came off as some kinda arbiter. Was it me or were you a little put off that I had a different opinion then the majority. I  get it..... its being part of the big herd saying NJ sux......... I mean it may be at least a little bit part of the problem but nah nevermind

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AugustWest, I'll give you credit.  To my knowledge, you are the first to offer counter-points to stay in NJ other then the argument of "stand and fight for your home state, together we can make a difference".

 

I get it , NJ was my home my whole life, and I for over a decade subscribed to the mentality that I will stay and fight, while making the best of the situation as I can. If you are happy and have your reasons for staying, that's OK too.

 

To apply some of your logic in terms of a defensive situation where you are threatened that you would rather run then fight or use a firearm to defend yourself... I chose the run away option when it comes to NJ. After years of fighting the fight, I decided that running was the better strategy. Also don't get me wrong, I do also agree that sometimes running in a real self defense situation could be the best option depending on the situation even if you are armed. In fact, tactically retreating while using a firearm to further assure your withdrawal is even better. :)

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What did I "give" lol I mean seriously. And my mistake but to me it did seem that you came off as some kinda arbiter. Was it me or were you a little put off that I had a different opinion then the majority. I  get it..... its being part of the big herd saying NJ sux......... I mean it may be at least a little bit part of the problem but nah nevermind

"It" and "put off" is something inside your head. There is no "it" with me. Just you flipping out.

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Is 30 K a year for a mansion or something? I thought the highest taxes in NJ were about $15,000.

Every house on Mtn. Lakes Blvd are around 32K per year. I have customers in Chester, and new Vernon paying around 60K with about 3 acres. My taxes in Sussex County for a 2k Sq foot 3bdrm 2 bath house with two 60x100 lots is 10K.

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Every house on Mtn. Lakes Blvd are around 32K per year. I have customers in Chester, and new Vernon paying around 60K with about 3 acres. My taxes in Sussex County for a 2k Sq foot 3bdrm 2 bath house with two 60x100 lots is 10K.

 

Doctors, Lawyers, investors, old money in the family/trust fund kids...

 

No sane person would put up with paying that (60K) in taxes every year.

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Is 30 K a year for a mansion or something? I thought the highest taxes in NJ were about $15,000.

I have a nice home it is no mansion, not even close. I felt it was worth it because I live in a nice town, my kids went to public school and all get into excellent colleges.

 

It's not just the current rate. 15 years ago I paid less than 20, I believe 18. While I am no huge fan of our governor, property tax growth is at its slowest rate in his tenure. Prior to that it was growing very quickly.

 

There are some "mansions" in my town paying 50-75k in property taxes just a short distance from me.

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Doctors, Lawyers, investors, old money in the family/trust fund kids...

 

No sane person would put up with paying that (60K) in taxes every year.

I think you'd be surprised at the diversity of income sources of people who pay those taxes.

 

I think the biggest driver of insane property taxes is the school funding formula in NJ. It's is wildly different in other states. If you live in NJ and you aren't aware of the squishy language in the constitution that says every child is entitled to a thorough and efficient education then I'd suggest you become acquainted with it. It's not just gun laws in NJ that are vague because that statement in the constitution may be the vaguest thing anyone has ever heard. However it led to the landmark case Abbott v Burke which handcuffed the state ever since. If you've never heard the term Abbott districts I pity you when you learn what's been done here.

 

In short Abbott districts, due to this ridiculous law suit, means that 31 of the 286 public school districts receive more than 60% of k-12 school funding and more than 90% of pre-k funding. Over 6 billion dollars of public funding goes to Newark, Jersey City, Hoboken, Elixabeth, Asbury Park, Harrison, Passaic, Camden, Paterson, long Branch, etc. You may ask yourself, those districts suck what have they been doing with all that money? Your guess is as good as anyone, graduation rates are abysmal in those areas.

 

CC tried to challenge that ruling and our legislative Supreme Court upheld it in an insane way in 2010. That's another issue is our SC legislates and gets away with it. One of the biggest reason CC wanted to reshape the court was to strike down the Abbott ruling. Our friend Steven Sweeney vowed to never have a confirmation hearing for any judge appointed by Christie. How can there never be a confirmation hearing? Don't all Governors and Presidents want to shape the courts? Don't they do that during their tenures? How is it in NJ you can not just delay but never have these hearings and there is nothing illegal about it? The Abbott ruling is simply the greatest tax payer ripoff in history anywhere in the U.S.

 

The other huge scam is NJ school construction corporation which ripped tax payers off for billions over a period of years and instead of disbanding our legislature just put a new set of criminals in charge of it. Look at what it costs to build a school in NJ. Additionally, they only build schools in the Abbott districts who already have all the money. When we did a school expansion in my town we had a 1 year large property tax increase that actually got rolled back the following year to pay for it. The good part was is the town managed the construction and didn't use the school construction corporation to control costs and it worked.

 

If you are unaware of what I've outlined above and live in NJ I feel bad for you. If you research that over breakfast don't you'll barf. Wait until you are halfway between breakfast and lunch.

 

If reading of this disaster doesn't want to make you consider living somewhere else, that's fine, but unless that changes Nj taxes will never be affordable.

 

It's not just years of shorting the pension fund my governors past and present that has dug this deep whole that we are in. What I mentioned above is a huge driver, but coupled with the pension issue it becomes nuclear.

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Every house on Mtn. Lakes Blvd are around 32K per year. I have customers in Chester, and new Vernon paying around 60K with about 3 acres.

 

 

There are some "mansions" in my town paying 50-75k in property taxes just a short distance from me.

 

I had no idea that taxes were that high. I won't mention what we are paying here.

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I think you'd be surprised at the diversity of income sources of people who pay those taxes.

 

I think the biggest driver of insane property taxes is the school funding formula in NJ. It's is wildly different in other states. If you live in NJ and you aren't aware of the squishy language in the constitution that says every child is entitled to a thorough and efficient education then I'd suggest you become acquainted with it. It's not just gun laws in NJ that are vague because that statement in the constitution may be the vaguest thing anyone has ever heard. However it led to the landmark case Abbott v Burke which handcuffed the state ever since. If you've never heard the term Abbott districts I pity you when you learn what's been done here.

 

In short Abbott districts, due to this ridiculous law suit, means that 31 of the 286 public school districts receive more than 60% of k-12 school funding and more than 90% of pre-k funding. Over 6 billion dollars of public funding goes to Newark, Jersey City, Hoboken, Elixabeth, Asbury Park, Harrison, Passaic, Camden, Paterson, long Branch, etc. You may ask yourself, those districts suck what have they been doing with all that money? Your guess is as good as anyone, graduation rates are abysmal in those areas.

 

CC tried to challenge that ruling and our legislative Supreme Court upheld it in an insane way in 2010. That's another issue is our SC legislates and gets away with it. One of the biggest reason CC wanted to reshape the court was to strike down the Abbott ruling. Our friend Steven Sweeney vowed to never have a confirmation hearing for any judge appointed by Christie. How can there never be a confirmation hearing? Don't all Governors and Presidents want to shape the courts? Don't they do that during their tenures? How is it in NJ you can not just delay but never have these hearings and there is nothing illegal about it? The Abbott ruling is simply the greatest tax payer ripoff in history anywhere in the U.S.

 

The other huge scam is NJ school construction corporation which ripped tax payers off for billions over a period of years and instead of disbanding our legislature just put a new set of criminals in charge of it. Look at what it costs to build a school in NJ. Additionally, they only build schools in the Abbott districts who already have all the money. When we did a school expansion in my town we had a 1 year large property tax increase that actually got rolled back the following year to pay for it. The good part was is the town managed the construction and didn't use the school construction corporation to control costs and it worked.

 

If you are unaware of what I've outlined above and live in NJ I feel bad for you. If you research that over breakfast don't you'll barf. Wait until you are halfway between breakfast and lunch.

 

If reading of this disaster doesn't want to make you consider living somewhere else, that's fine, but unless that changes Nj taxes will never be affordable.

 

It's not just years of shorting the pension fund my governors past and present that has dug this deep whole that we are in. What I mentioned above is a huge driver, but coupled with the pension issue it becomes nuclear.

 

It indeed makes one sick to think about these things. I'm fully aware of Abbott districts, corruption, and the pension disaster in NJ... these are some of the facts that contributed to my decision that it is not worth trying to stay and fight to fix things. In many cases the corruption runs from local right up into state levels. At this point is is a hobby of the FBI to sweep in to NJ every 10 years to attempt to clean things up by arresting the obvious corrupt government officials. The thing is for every one they put behind bars, there most likely 10 others.

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My house in Amelia Island, FL is on Amelia National CC, it is 3k sq/ft on .62 acre of property overlooking a preserve with the 6th hole beyond that.  I paid ~20% of what my home will sell for and the assessed taxes are 2604 / year.  My HOA is 933 / year and with that I get internet and basic cable, garbage collection, access to the pool club.  For an additional $405 / year I get a yearly family golf membership at the Fazio course.  Lastly I am a 5 minute ride to the beach.  

 

The climate, for those that aren't familiar with this spot in Florida, is considered second to San Diego.

 

http://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/fernandina-beach/florida/united-states/usfl0144

 

My kids are out of school and I'd like to retire, how would I do that with 30k property taxes, no amenities and a 8.97% income tax rate.  I hopefully won't die soon but if I did NJ is the only state with an estate and inheritance tax.  What an unbelievable level of redistribution of money.  

 

Do I want more gun freedom as well, yeah.  Did make a big play into my decision about where I'd live?  No.  It was about quality of life, enjoying my retirement years and yeah it's nice that I can CCW and not destroy every semi-auto rifle with a detachable magazine.  

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Doctors, Lawyers, investors, old money in the family/trust fund kids...

 

No sane person would put up with paying that (60K) in taxes every year.

There are quite a few properties in Morris county that fetch those numbers. You would be suprised. More money in Morris county than anywhere else in the state.

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Happy Hunting, NJ Pilot. Hope to see you some day.

 

OK, update time. We are dropping like flies so it is time to update the poll. But I think we probably missed several that left and didn't see it this year, and probably never will.

Thanks Fox! Already waiting on my first silencer and looking to build an SBR in 300 BLK on a Form 1.

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I am assuming most people on this forum want to leave the Garden State due to two reasons, taxes and the ability to conceal and carry. 

 

While I have many gripes about NJ and have left for California for a time and came very close to moving to South Carolina I'd like to share my perspective on the topic.

 

Property taxes are high in NJ and while researching our move to SC to be close to family, we found out that we would pay about $5,000 less a year down south.  We also found out my wife would make $22,000 less a year with comparable experience. Those numbers spoke loudly to us.

 

Also the comparing the crime statistics NJ actually ranks very well while SC has disturbingly high rates in just about every catergory as do many southern and south western states.

 

As for conceal and carry we should without a doubt be able to obtain a license which we all know most of us can't.  But at the same time I feel using a firearm is by far the least favorable method of self defense. 

 

It without a doubt will change your life forever whether you are in a "free" state or in NJ or CA.  You under extreme stress must make every decision perfectly as well as shoot perfectly or end up in jail or being sued and losing everything.

 

Even if you do everything perfectly you are at the mercy of courts and lawyers which is very frightening. 

 

My method even if I could carry would be to run, use mace, kick in the crouch, etc.  and only in the complete loss of hope would I ever think of drawing a firearm.

 

All this being said my answer would be "no" to leaving this state for these two reasons.  Everywhere has it problems without a doubt and I see myself leaving someday but the choice is complicated and I am sure I will have gripes about the new place I end up.

 

Welcome to the Forums!

 

I have also lived in different areas of the country (Kansas and Texas).  Neither have the oppressive taxes and overreaching government that NJ has.

 

I'm not saying NJ is awful by any means.  There are many things that I actually enjoy here.  But there are many things that I find completely incomprehensible about this state. 

 

One is the crushing tax system.  I think I'm safe in saying the taxes on an average home (3-4 bedroom, 2-2.5 bath, small yard in a working class/lower middleclass) are in the range of $7 -$10k.  I'm not talking a McMansion here.  Cape cod, bi-level, small colonial style, etc.  I have relatives in Missouri, Texas, South Carolina, etc that pay substantially less.  In some cases a tenth of the amount.  My parents, born and raised in NJ, retired to Franklin, NC.  My father was complaining that their taxes had just gone up.  To $800.  For the year.  I have many friends who live in Texas just outside of areas like Dallas and Austin.  If they pay $2500 a year in property taxes it's a lot.  Are the services we receive here in NJ THAT much better than those areas?  I don't think so.

 

Another is the fact that legal firearm owners here are treated as criminals in waiting.  If we deviate on the way to or from the gun range or gun store/gun smith we could be looking at 3-4 years in prison and be stripped of several rights.  Firearm owners in NJ are under constant attack under the guise of "sensible" laws which in reality make no sense.  

 

Additionally, by  your comments you seem to be under the belief that you have to fire your weapon to defend yourself.  Many times  legal firearm owners have to do nothing more than simply present their weapon to stop a threat.  They don't fire a single shot. 

 

If you would rather "run" (risking being overtaken by a possibly faster, stronger and armed aggressor) or "kick in the crouch" (you may miss and now are able to be easily grabbed / struck by a larger, stronger and possible armed aggressor).  You can defend yourself how you see fit.  I would rather I, or my wife or daughters, be able to display a gun from a safe distance and give the aggressor the chance to retreat. 

 

Your responses in NJ are both perfectly legal.  I'm not sure about the mace though.  That may get YOU arrested.  You'll probably wind up dead or a victim but at least you won't be arrested by the state for defending yourself.  The method I would like to have available would more than likely result in me and my loved ones being safe and a fleeing criminal who, if they have two brain cells, will also still be very much alive.

 

If you aren't comfortable carrying a firearm for the purpose of defending yourself that's fine.  i get it.  Some people aren't comfortable drinking alcohol or driving motorcycles either.  But you are a new member to this forum/community.  You have 4 posts.  You voluntarily joined a pro-2nd Amendment forum and one of your very first posts seems to scream "I'm not comfortable carrying a gun and nobody else should either!"  Maybe the longer residents of this community are misreading your statements?  Maybe you came across in an unintended fashion?  Maybe your a supporter of "sensible gun laws" and came in here to just stir the pot.  Only time will tell.

 

Hopefully your not that latter.  If not, I look forward to possible seeing you at some shot gun shoot outs (clay shoots), the range or the Recall Sweeney Rally as we fight, together, to make NJ a better and freer place to live for all.

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wow ok gotcha....friendly bunch ya'all are.

 

We really aren't too bad once you get to know us.

 

Brainwashed into thinking that the NJ way of thinking about fending off an attacker would be to "run and hide" instead of "standing your ground". And that's ok, acting like a man isn't for everyone. As well as thinking that our school's are great here compared to other states. Or that staying here to make more money is worth giving up constitutionally withheld rights that NJ imposes on its citizens. The more you make here the more they take anyway, it's not like you actually wind up with a larger bank account in the end. I personally prefer to protest by leaving cutting off my funding to the corrupt leaders of this state, that see me as a piggy bank, and nothing more. This is just where you and I differ on opinions. But again I'm perfectly ok with that, and I would still break bread or have a beer with you.

 

See, DeerSlayer would even be okay breaking bread or having a beer with you.  Just ya' both keep your pants on!  :)

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Girlfriend just accepted a job in Jacksonville, FL. Be heading down in about 5 weeks.

 

Will be keeping the house here for a while until we find a house to buy there.

 

Unfortunately, I may still be commuting back and forth to work up here for a while, but we will be residents of FL.

 

Yipee!!

I'm on Amelia Island so look me up and we can go out and enjoy our 2A rights at a local range.  Congrats, I obviously like the area and have been hanging around down there before buying for the last 12 years.  

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There's been talk in my house of moving just across the border into PA.  In or just north of the New Hope area would be where we'd start looking if this happened.  I'm not too familiar with what's good and what's not between Philly and Easton.  But I know New Hope would be as far south as I could go for commuting reasons and Easton is a little too New Jersey'ized for me, even though it's in PA.

 

Right off the bat we'd probably save about $10K to $12K /yr in property taxes for a comparable house.  If we sold our over-priced Jersey house for market value we'd come out $350K ahead given the prices of houses we like in PA.  But I'd really want a decent piece of property to do two things.  Shoot and ride.  And that might be a tall order in the areas we'd look.  Probably not enough space to shoot.  But maybe enough to ride.  So that would drive the cost up. 

 

The issue is my commute to NYC.  It would be a helluva ride.   But it takes me 2 hours to get here each morning anyway. On a good day.

 

Just an idea at this point.  But if we did it, it would happen within 5 years.

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I'm on Amelia Island so look me up and we can go out and enjoy our 2A rights at a local range.  Congrats, I obviously like the area and have been hanging around down there before buying for the last 12 years.  

You bet Rob. I've only been to Amelia Island once a couple of years ago.

 

Probably about a 40 - 45 min ride from where I am.

 

Another member is moving about 25 min south of me in a few months. We plan to shoot locally as well as at an 850 yd range about 1 1/2 hours away.

 

Let me know when you get settled in. I've been busy with the new house and haven't shot in a few months. Will hopefully get out soon.

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You bet Rob. I've only been to Amelia Island once a couple of years ago.

 

Probably about a 40 - 45 min ride from where I am.

 

Another member is moving about 25 min south of me in a few months. We plan to shoot locally as well as at an 850 yd range about 1 1/2 hours away.

 

Let me know when you get settled in. I've been busy with the new house and haven't shot in a few months. Will hopefully get out soon.

You bet, I need to get settled because I have  dreams of an SBR and an M1 Carbine.

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