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Are You Leaving NJ in the Next 5 Years?

  

253 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you plan to leave NJ in the next 5 years?

    • Yes
      169
    • No
      50
    • Already Gone
      27
    • I'm a cop Yes
      3
    • I'm a cop No
      4


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Welcome to the Forums!

 

I have also lived in different areas of the country (Kansas and Texas).  Neither have the oppressive taxes and overreaching government that NJ has.

 

I'm not saying NJ is awful by any means.  There are many things that I actually enjoy here.  But there are many things that I find completely incomprehensible about this state. 

 

One is the crushing tax system.  I think I'm safe in saying the taxes on an average home (3-4 bedroom, 2-2.5 bath, small yard in a working class/lower middleclass) are in the range of $7 -$10k.  I'm not talking a McMansion here.  Cape cod, bi-level, small colonial style, etc.  I have relatives in Missouri, Texas, South Carolina, etc that pay substantially less.  In some cases a tenth of the amount.  My parents, born and raised in NJ, retired to Franklin, NC.  My father was complaining that their taxes had just gone up.  To $800.  For the year.  I have many friends who live in Texas just outside of areas like Dallas and Austin.  If they pay $2500 a year in property taxes it's a lot.  Are the services we receive here in NJ THAT much better than those areas?  I don't think so.

 

Another is the fact that legal firearm owners here are treated as criminals in waiting.  If we deviate on the way to or from the gun range or gun store/gun smith we could be looking at 3-4 years in prison and be stripped of several rights.  Firearm owners in NJ are under constant attack under the guise of "sensible" laws which in reality make no sense.  

 

Additionally, by  your comments you seem to be under the belief that you have to fire your weapon to defend yourself.  Many times  legal firearm owners have to do nothing more than simply present their weapon to stop a threat.  They don't fire a single shot. 

 

If you would rather "run" (risking being overtaken by a possibly faster, stronger and armed aggressor) or "kick in the crouch" (you may miss and now are able to be easily grabbed / struck by a larger, stronger and possible armed aggressor).  You can defend yourself how you see fit.  I would rather I, or my wife or daughters, be able to display a gun from a safe distance and give the aggressor the chance to retreat. 

 

Your responses in NJ are both perfectly legal.  I'm not sure about the mace though.  That may get YOU arrested.  You'll probably wind up dead or a victim but at least you won't be arrested by the state for defending yourself.  The method I would like to have available would more than likely result in me and my loved ones being safe and a fleeing criminal who, if they have two brain cells, will also still be very much alive.

 

If you aren't comfortable carrying a firearm for the purpose of defending yourself that's fine.  i get it.  Some people aren't comfortable drinking alcohol or driving motorcycles either.  But you are a new member to this forum/community.  You have 4 posts.  You voluntarily joined a pro-2nd Amendment forum and one of your very first posts seems to scream "I'm not comfortable carrying a gun and nobody else should either!"  Maybe the longer residents of this community are misreading your statements?  Maybe you came across in an unintended fashion?  Maybe your a supporter of "sensible gun laws" and came in here to just stir the pot.  Only time will tell.

 

Hopefully your not that latter.  If not, I look forward to possible seeing you at some shot gun shoot outs (clay shoots), the range or the Recall Sweeney Rally as we fight, together, to make NJ a better and freer place to live for all.

The best way to keep you and your family outside the home is with your brain and choices you make....most of the time "bad" things happen in "bad" areas at bewitching hours...I know there are exceptions but you get it.  People that are victims of crime outside the home often have made unfortunate choices as to were they were at and what time of day they were there. 

 

Fair? of course not....is there random crime? of course but these are usually criminals wanting to take something from you.....Not someone running up to you to assault your family and run off with your wife and daughter...I mean for the most part you can agree right?

 

If someone holds you up are you gonna give up your twenty dollar bill or draw a gun I mean really think about it. I would actually like to have the ability to carry but as I said countless times only draw a firearm when all hope is lost such as someone running off with your family.

 

Am I uncomfortable carrying a firearm no because I have my head straight about this serious subject.  Again think of the aftermath of a shooting and how much is out of your hands ....scary stuff. 

 

If you read my post I said I feel using a firearm is the worst form of self defense because afterwards you will be defending your self for years against lawyers and courts.  I would use a gun only after every other option is exhausted such as running, kicking in the crotch, mace (mace is sold at hardware stores so im thinking its legal but ill look into it) just like I said...To hell with being Macho I need to be here for my family and shooting someone is a bad way of doing that.

 

In my home if I can get my family out of course I will this isn't some movie.....but If I cant God help you.

 

Read my post from the start I didn't misrepresent myself you misread or took liberties with very clear points..... but points different then your own and I guess the forum which did strike a nerve ( I know I know arrogant term). This is big boy stuff again not a movie...I am not saying anyone in here would be careless with a firearm but some responses I get....I dunno maybe it just me.

 

Also one last point I do not believe in carrying a firearm, hoping the sight will scare someone off....If I make the very serious determination to draw a gun its because im ready to use it.

 

Its not me screaming at you.... its my words....they are screaming at you for a reason.....otherwise you would of laughed and moved on...right?

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AugustWest, I'll give you credit.  To my knowledge, you are the first to offer counter-points to stay in NJ other then the argument of "stand and fight for your home state, together we can make a difference".

 

I get it , NJ was my home my whole life, and I for over a decade subscribed to the mentality that I will stay and fight, while making the best of the situation as I can. If you are happy and have your reasons for staying, that's OK too.

 

To apply some of your logic in terms of a defensive situation where you are threatened that you would rather run then fight or use a firearm to defend yourself... I chose the run away option when it comes to NJ. After years of fighting the fight, I decided that running was the better strategy. Also don't get me wrong, I do also agree that sometimes running in a real self defense situation could be the best option depending on the situation even if you are armed. In fact, tactically retreating while using a firearm to further assure your withdrawal is even better. :)

Point taken with your analogy of running....nice post.... the best posts are the ones that get you to think...good work

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AugustWest - If I misinterpreted your initial post I apologize.  But you've got to be kidding with what you just wrote.  

 

The best way to keep you and your family outside the home is with your brain and choices you make....most of the time "bad" things happen in "bad" areas at bewitching hours...I know there are exceptions but you get it.  People that are victims of crime outside the home often have made unfortunate choices as to were they were at and what time of day they were there. 

 

Fair? of course not....is there random crime? of course but these are usually criminals wanting to take something from you.....Not someone running up to you to assault your family and run off with your wife and daughter...I mean for the most part you can agree right?

 

 

 

Guess bad things don't happen at affluent mall in the middle of the day (Short HIlls). I guess you don't have to worry about walking to your office in midtown NYC and being attacked by a lunatic with hammer.  I guess movie theaters in Aurora, Colorado are perfectly safe.  I guess home invasions don't happen in nice areas of Connecticut.  No one is ever attacked in the morning at Church...those are perfectly safe?  

 

I guess you get the point.  Evil doesn't make an appointment.  You don't get a chance to prepare.  And no, I most definitely do not agree.

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"It" and "put off" is something inside your head. There is no "it" with me. Just you flipping out.

Say Que? Are you one of those posters that feel they are so respected they don't have to make any sense...... . Come on you know you patted yourself on the back after that ingenious post didn't you.  I'll ummmm stop "flipping out" now. 

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AugustWest - If I misinterpreted your initial post I apologize.  But you've got to be kidding with what you just wrote.  

 

 

Guess bad things don't happen at affluent mall in the middle of the day (Short HIlls). I guess you don't have to worry about walking to your office in midtown NYC and being attacked by a lunatic with hammer.  I guess movie theaters in Aurora, Colorado are perfectly safe.  I guess home invasions don't happen in nice areas of Connecticut.  No one is ever attacked in the morning at Church...those are perfectly safe?  I guess you get the point.  Evil doesn't make an appointment.  You don't get a chance to prepare.  And no, I most definitely do not agree.

Man its tiresome to always have to say there are exceptions.....but that what you offered are..... exceptions....most crime that people normally encounter ....and you and I both know it....isn't the type  the type you just offered up. Normally I get hit with this type of arguments  by people of the Liberal persuasion. They offer up dramatic examples that are far from the norm to try and put you in your place....oh yea....yes there are exceptions.... did I cover that?

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Man its tiresome to always have to say there are exceptions.....but that what you offered are..... exceptions....most crime that people normally encounter ....and you and I both know it....isn't the type  the type you just offered up. Normally I get hit with this type of arguments  by people of the Liberal persuasion. They offer up dramatic examples that are far from the norm to try and put you in your place....oh yea....yes there are exceptions.... did I cover that?

 

Accidents while driving are the exception as well.  But you still take precautions.  You wear a seat belt, right.  You check the mirrors before changing lanes, right.  You don't have to do these things, but you do.  So you reduce the chances of being an "exception". 

 

What if the place you lived said you could no longer use your seat belt or have any mirrors in your car.  Would you still feel as safe and secure while driving?  What if they took away the choices you want to use to take to keep yourself safe while driving.  This is exactly what is happening in NJ.  Your being told you can not make a choice that makes the most sense to you.  That you feel could help protect you.

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Am I uncomfortable carrying a firearm no because I have my head straight about this serious subject.  Again think of the aftermath of a shooting and how much is out of your hands ....scary stuff. 

 

If you read my post I said I feel using a firearm is the worst form of self defense because afterwards you will be defending your self for years against lawyers and courts.  I would use a gun only after every other option is exhausted such as running, kicking in the crotch, mace (mace is sold at hardware stores so im thinking its legal but ill look into it) just like I said...

 

You seem to very hung up on thinking that you must fire a gun to defend yourself.  You don't.  As I've said before, most people who draw a firearm in self defense never fire it.  it's your prerogative to defend yourself how ever you see fit.  Wouldn't it make more sense though to be able to display a handgun and not get in a physical confrontation if you can avoid it? 

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Wouldn't it make more sense though to be able to display a handgun and not get in a physical confrontation if you can avoid it? 

 

Which you also cannot do in NJ outside the home... that's the point.  NJ has taken that "last resort" choice away from you.

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Never said that not hung up on it..... I don't think you are reading my post completely just trying to find some chink in the "armor" to debate with. No displaying a firearm in a confrontation is not a good idea to me...your post on precautions basically proves my point that using your brain is your best defense.....I never thought I would have this much back in forth from the solid logic I expressed but hey its a discussion forum so I get it....carry on I feel like a fighter taking on all comers.... :tommy:

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Man its tiresome to always have to say there are exceptions.....but that what you offered are..... exceptions....most crime that people normally encounter ....and you and I both know it....isn't the type  the type you just offered up. Normally I get hit with this type of arguments  by people of the Liberal persuasion. They offer up dramatic examples that are far from the norm to try and put you in your place....oh yea....yes there are exceptions.... did I cover that?

 

These aren't examples. These are real events where innocent people died horrible deaths.  And I'm not trying to put you in your place.  I'm trying to open your eyes that horrible things happen at times you would never expect them to.  I would rather view these "exceptions" as "possibilities".  Do I think they'll ever occur to me or my loved ones.  God, I hope not.  But just like car accidents are possibilities while driving I would like to be prepared as I see fit without having my options severely limited. 

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Never said that not hung up on it..... I don't think you are reading my post completely just trying to find some chink in the "armor" to debate with. No displaying a firearm in a confrontation is not a good idea to me...your post on precautions basically proves my point that using your brain is your best defense.....I never thought I would have this much back in forth from the solid logic I expressed but hey its a discussion forum so I get it....carry on I feel like a fighter taking on all comers.... :tommy:

 

Nah, I'm done.  If you think "running",  "kicking in the crotch" and "using mace" are more logical methods of self defense than being able to conceal carry than I just can 't argue with your logic.  Because there simply isn't any logic in your discussion. 

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Nah, I'm done.  If you think "running",  "kicking in the crotch" and "using mace" are more logical methods of self defense than being able to conceal carry than I just can 't argue with your logic.  Because there simply isn't any logic in your discussion. 

 

Maybe for some people that are fast runners or good kickers, it's a viable option... what about the elderly, or wheelchair bound citizens, or those with other disabilities?

 

The problem with all-encompassing state laws like NJ has is that they don't just take away a last resort tool from the able bodied... it may be taking away the ONLY tool capable of being "wielded" by others who can't run or kick or fist fight back with someone bigger, faster, or stronger than them.

 

Do they "want" to shoot someone?  Heck no.   But they also don't want to be killed by someone, even if they are "only" being attacked with a knife or a baseball bat.

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How much do you think he is being paid for this?

 

I don't want a witch hunt here, but the mods and admins should run down all his IPs and his login info and check if they can find something. Let's not pile on, but it is appropriate for the people that work here to do some due diligence. Pretty sure this guy has checks signed by a Bloomberg front company.

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If you read my post I said I feel using a firearm is the worst form of self defense because afterwards you will be defending your self for years against lawyers and courts.  I would use a gun only after every other option is exhausted such as running, kicking in the crotch, mace (mace is sold at hardware stores so im thinking its legal but ill look into it) just like I said...To hell with being Macho I need to be here for my family and shooting someone is a bad way of doing that.

 

 

If you don't use a firearm against a deadly threat, you can be asured you won't be in court. You'll likely be dead.

 

As far as being macho, that has nothing to do with it.  If you think people want to carry to be macho, you have the wrong idea of why people want to carry.  It's either that you don't get it or you actually think it's macho.... to which I would respond.. don't ever carry. You may end up getting shot with your own gun.

 

Just about every poster here will know that if they were to carry, they probably wouldn't ever have to fire their weapon. Depending on where they go of course. If you have to work in Camden after dark....  or any time????  You might actually need that weapon.  But the point is, it's a possibility with consequences of FINALITY for themselves and whoever they are with at the time if they are not prepared.

 

I run a thorough external pre-flight check and and checklist every single time I get into a plane.  Do I expect the cotter pins on my ailerons to be gone if I just checked them before the flight I completed an hour ago?  No.  But I check them.  Every time.  The same logic applies to CCW... for me at least.  I don't know if some step will find something, but the consequences of being wrong really suck.

 

The problem here is.... The State of NJ prevents me from running my check list.  If that flight control malfuctions....the State says "Don't worry.  We'll find your smoking hole in the ground and call your next of kin....  it's all good"...  But that's a bit off topic.  The issue is whether a firearm is a good form, if not the best form, of self defense.  Well, I'm pretty certain it's better than peeing on the attacker.

 

And something else to consider.  What if there are three attackers?  What if THEY are armed?  A crotch kick is gonna make the other two laugh.  Right before they beat you into a coma.

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I didn't realize this was the general discussion forum as I was writing. And actually... this is way off the OPs topic. Sorry. Wasn't paying attention to the origin or which forum.

Yeah, sorry. Didn't mean to hijack the thread.

 

I'm stayin in NJ and trying to turn the tide. Will be going to the Recall Sweeney rally and helping how ever I can.

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How much do you think he is being paid for this?I don't want a witch hunt here, but the mods and admins should run down all his IPs and his login info and check if they can find something. Let's not pile on, but it is appropriate for the people that work here to do some due diligence. Pretty sure this guy has checks signed by a Bloomberg front company.

Kind of wonder the same. Hey, did you hear there's this thing called an "exception".

 

The problem with liberalism is they think their ideas are the norm. In NJ they are. But there's this pesky exception called America that keeps popping up.

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How much do you think he is being paid for this?I don't want a witch hunt here, but the mods and admins should run down all his IPs and his login info and check if they can find something. Let's not pile on, but it is appropriate for the people that work here to do some due diligence. Pretty sure this guy has checks signed by a Bloomberg front company.

I'm thinking the same thing.

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How much do you think he is being paid for this? I don't want a witch hunt here, but the mods and admins should run down all his IPs and his login info and check if they can find something. Let's not pile on, but it is appropriate for the people that work here to do some due diligence. Pretty sure this guy has checks signed by a Bloomberg front company.

I don't know if that's true or not but their views seem completely orthogonal with someone who would be making use of their second amendment rights. 

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How much do you think he is being paid for this? I don't want a witch hunt here, but the mods and admins should run down all his IPs and his login info and check if they can find something. Let's not pile on, but it is appropriate for the people that work here to do some due diligence. Pretty sure this guy has checks signed by a Bloomberg front company.

 

Have you taken your medicine today?

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Congrats...  I'll be right behind you although I'm heading a bit farther south - near Greenville, SC.  Just accepted a job transfer/promotion a few weeks ago.

 

I'm flying down next week to get a lease started on a house, and will be listing my NJ home for sale shortly afterwards.

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Move is now completed to NC. It was painful, but the benefits make it all worthwhile, including of course actual 2A rights being recognized.

Waxhaw is a nice area.  

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