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kingsey

Should I get a piston ar?

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just so we are clear, that also makes it reliable like an AK, not unreliable like the AR-15, which hasn't been improved upon since vietnam correct?

i see again you havent read a thing... before you post again start at page 1 and read EVERYTHING. dont post again until you have. you are just making yourself look dumb buddy.

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i'd rather not read your BS twice.  it'll make my head hurt

haha ok than you have proved useless yet again... you obviously have no knowledge or reading skills on the matter... keep posting though... im curious what is after njgf addict... lmao

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keep the insults coming.  it proves your superiority over everyone else.  for someone so versed in ARs, variations of them, how they work, and the most intimate details, I'm quite surprised you need anyone to give you advice on such a simple task as a simple swapped stock on an AR

 

actually i was curious on how to put a certain stock on. atleast im not too full of my self to ask a question when i have one. where was your usefule knowledge again? oh yeah you didnt have any at all... 

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just think of how reliable the glock 19 would be if we could put a piston on it.  then it would work exactly like an AR

:laugh: proving your stupity yet again. you obviously didnt read anything that was said.... This may make your head explode but did you see the part where i said i love my di ar? yeah im guessing you didnt... 

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So what? It is not a piston AR (which is the topic of this thread), and also, so what? The Izzys are not the ones to be modeling a weapons program after. They are not all they are cracked up to be.

 

What's next, you going to advocate carrying condition 3 in a Fobus holster or using a Mako Carbine Conversion :rolleyes:?

 

 

win

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I will bite...

 

I started off with a S&W M&P15... it was a good gun.. but just left me unimpressed.. not for any particular reason.. but something about it just never did it for me..  So I moved on to be one of the strongest advocates of the AK platform.. because at the time it represented the most value.. and of course more importantly it was the magical durability that I was sold on.. how amazing it would run in every imaginable condition... I bought that nonsense for a LONG time.. put together NUMEROUS AK platform guns.. 556.. 545.. 762x39.. and even 12 guage shotgun... I have literally thousands and thousands of shots fired from an AK.. and they were ALL really really great guns... but I hit a point where I just wanted a more modular platform.. something that could swap uppers.. and something more accurate.. so I decided to try the AR platform again.. but I would put my own together this time... I will be the first to admit... when compared to everyone on this forum I probably neglect my guns more than anyone else.. I clean them, sometimes.. but its a pretty rare occurrence.. I just take them out.. shoot them and thats it.. throw them in the safe till next use... so anyway I built that first AR.. and I figured I would get around to cleaning it when it started to not run smoothly.. figured the gun would let me know when it needed service.. so I lugged this neglected gun back and forth to the range... shooting tons of round.. running around and laying in the dirt.. waiting and waiting for the "need" to service it.. well that day NEVER came.. that gun ran and ran and ran... I eventually cleaned it at some point because it started to freak me out.. but the gun with TONS of ammo through it never NEEDED any kind of service.. my whole theory of the inferior AR was shattered... I am sure the AR can fail.. maybe get dirty.. I have no idea.. I know that when I lube it there is like oil dripping out the pin holes.. and I know I treat the gun like shit.. but it has NEVER let me down.. and having shot thousands of rounds through both I can tell you that my personal experience is that the AR has proven to be just as reliable as the AK...biggest difference? the AR is significantly more accurate..  so for me a simple DI AR is good to go... certainly no expert.. but have a fair amount of time with each platform being far more abusive than most users...

 

 

with that said I have been able to see malfunctions with my 308 AR... but that is a whole different animal.. I am talking strictly decent quality 556 guns..

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i don't see the argument as being against new designs, but when talking about new designs and proprietary parts, that needs to come into play. the best design in the world doesn't help if you can't get parts for it because the small company shut down after a few bad years, another AWB, or some other issue as simple as a death in the family. a HUGE advantage of the AR platform is the modularity and interoperability. It's actually one of the thinks that i think make it better than the AK design. The AK isn't easy to assemble, and yes, i've seen them malfunction from those put together by hobbyists. one of the reasons i dislike the idea of a KAC SR-15 or whatever is because of the proprietary bolt design. Should i ever shoot out a barrel or want a spare, i'd like it to be easier to source.

 

nothing wrong with innovation. the first scary black rifle i shot was a sig 556 and i thought that was cool although very front heavy. there is also the SCAR line which is insanely popular and probably what i would choose should i have decided that i didn't want an AR platform.

 

the other issue is we have real people, people that run these guns harder than i ever will, in classes, on SWAT teams, in training scenarios. They say they trust their life to a standard AR. why would i question them because of something i've read on the internet.

 

some people like the piston design stuff, but i just think we need to call it what it is, a slight variation of the AR design. not some new and innovative groundbreaking idea. and its not an AK

You're missing the point. All new designs use proprietary parts. It's what makes them new. Criticizing piston ARs for having proprietary parts is a dumb argument because they are new designs. I don't have a problem with new. Every gun starts somewhere. I'm more interested in the merits of engineering and design than track record.

 

Nobody is doubting that ARs have a large pool of parts and a long track record. But if that's the standard by which you compare all competition, you'll see every new design fail because you wanted it to from the beginning. That's not fair.

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You're missing the point. All new designs use proprietary parts. It's what makes them new. Criticizing piston ARs for having proprietary parts is a dumb argument because they are new designs. I don't have a problem with new. Every gun starts somewhere. I'm more interested in the merits of engineering and design than track record.

 

Nobody is doubting that ARs have a large pool of parts and a long track record. But if that's the standard by which you compare all competition, you'll see every new design fail because you wanted it to from the beginning. That's not fair.

 

disagree...

 

thats not really the point.. the point is building a $1k gun around a platform that may or may not be carried forward.. with little to no real world operator benefit.. you can tell me about this test or that test.. or how it will work better in Iraq because of sand or any other crazy story... but at the end of the day I am brutal on my equipment.. and use the gun in the environment that I live in.. out in the rain.. the snow.. the woods.. minimal cleaning.. multiple 30 round mag dumps.. and the thing just keeps on going.. so what is the appeal of piston? to opt for a different platform there has to be a pay out.. and I just dont see it..

 

get a marginally heavier gun.. that runs around proprietary parts.... for more money.. for what? what is the pay off? what real world benefit has someone on this forum actually seen with real hard use?

 

with all due respect a lot of people using ARs sit as a bench.. guns on bags.. cleaning after every range trip.. so what are they getting by getting into a piston AR?

 

my AKs (loose tolerance piston guns) were NO MORE RELIABLE than my home built AR.. that is run wet and dirty a vast majority of the time..

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You're missing the point. All new designs use proprietary parts. It's what makes them new. Criticizing piston ARs for having proprietary parts is a dumb argument because they are new designs. I don't have a problem with new. Every gun starts somewhere. I'm more interested in the merits of engineering and design than track record.

 

Nobody is doubting that ARs have a large pool of parts and a long track record. But if that's the standard by which you compare all competition, you'll see every new design fail because you wanted it to from the beginning. That's not fair.

 

 

i totally get what you are saying.  but I'm just saying the track record and parts standard is one of the things that you have to consider.  like i said, i like many other platforms that i would love to own that are new or "other" designs.  i'd take a SCAR, M1A, and many other non-AR designs.   I just feel that if i wanted to stick to an AR, losing that, for a less proven, proprietary, small company part that may not have any real benefits is something to consider.   I'm mainly using this standard when considering deviating from the AR standard.  For example, i'd be more inclined to go with a side charging upper as i see more of an advantage there than a piston upper.  

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with that said I have been able to see malfunctions with my 308 AR... but that is a whole different animal.. I am talking strictly decent quality 556 guns..

 

i think its pretty common for the 308 platform to introduce an added layer of unreliability.  from the few people i got to talk to that had the chance to carry the sr-25 as provided by uncle SAM, one guy couldn't wait to trade it back to someone else and get his MK12 back, and the other preferred to go with the EBR if given the chance, or the SCAR Heavy if an EBR wasn't available 

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You're missing the point. All new designs use proprietary parts. It's what makes them new. Criticizing piston ARs for having proprietary parts is a dumb argument because they are new designs. I don't have a problem with new. Every gun starts somewhere. I'm more interested in the merits of engineering and design than track record.

 

Nobody is doubting that ARs have a large pool of parts and a long track record. But if that's the standard by which you compare all competition, you'll see every new design fail because you wanted it to from the beginning. That's not fair.

 

I have no problem with new and different. I jsut think if you are going to have one, even if only for a bit, and established design with a known track record, and good parts availability should one have a lemon and need to get it repaired is the better choice. For the second? Have fun. Knock yourself out. 

 

I like cool guns, but practicality comes before novelty. Fortunately we can buy more than one. 

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:laugh: proving your stupity yet again. you obviously didnt read anything that was said.... This may make your head explode but did you see the part where i said i love my di ar? yeah im guessing you didnt... 

 

Dude. You don't get it. piston ARs are for the most part short stroke piston deisgns. The AK is not, it is a long stroke piston system. the AK is a stamped steel receiver with loose tolerances, piston ARs are not. LOTS of places have made ak47s and they design has proven to be tolerant of a wide variety of QC. PIston ARs have not. GRanted, there are some strange offerings out there like the ICE-15 which is built a heck of a lot more like an AK has like zero upper parts compatibility beyond the bolt, but uses a standard ar-15 lower. Even so, they have zero track record compared to the AK. 

 

Grunting "is reliable like AK" is not a valid statement. However you seem to fail to grasp the meaning of much of what you type. 

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Dude. You don't get it. piston ARs are for the most part short stroke piston deisgns. The AK is not, it is a long stroke piston system. the AK is a stamped steel receiver with loose tolerances, piston ARs are not. LOTS of places have made ak47s and they design has proven to be tolerant of a wide variety of QC. PIston ARs have not. GRanted, there are some strange offerings out there like the ICE-15 which is built a heck of a lot more like an AK has like zero upper parts compatibility beyond the bolt, but uses a standard ar-15 lower. Even so, they have zero track record compared to the AK.

 

Grunting "is reliable like AK" is not a valid statement. However you seem to fail to grasp the meaning of much of what you type.

....yea but....dey boff fires boolits so dey basukly da samezies.

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Having a tough time picking between the sig 516 and building my own standard ar15.

 

Any insight

I haven't read all the posts so I will comment based upon my own experience. I carried an M16 under some decidedly adverse conditions, mainly wet, so I can't comment on conditions in a desert environment. As advised by a DI in basic, I was very dilligent in regards to field maintenance and I never had any malfunctions in the field whatsoever. IMO, the standard system works fine and a piston system for an AR is a solution in search of a problem.

FWIW

YMMV

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cracking up even more now. yes i do stand behind my comment. what are you gonna tell me? he must be right because he is an instructor or something? lol please man... 

 

Laugh all you want guy, there are such things as credibility, character and respect. You'll find many people here feel H.E, as well as others posters in this thread possess. 

 

You? I'd say not so much. You just come on here like a troll, bashing and insulting everyone who doesn't agree with your delusional superiority.

 

Calling someone a liar because he didn't bring the broken parts for your examination is stupid and ridiculous. 

 

Are you 12 years old? Because you certainly sound like it. Grow up.

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you DI guys seem to be really worried about having replacement parts, more than any other group into a single platform weapon, why is that?

 

BTW, by saying "single platform" I mean guys into mini 14's, AK's, bolt guns, lever guns, revolvers, semi-auto handguns or any other single favorite weapon, don't worry about having replacement parts as much as AR/DI guys - why is that?

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