sof 0 Posted August 24, 2014 Man, my Springfield Armory TRP is finicky about it's food. first it refused to feed some 45s I made up with 230 grain FMJs until I cut down on the amount of crimp I used, and now using 200 grain Copper Plated, I had to expand the cases quite a bit more to get the bullet into the brass without shaving it, That, and the fact that most loads for the 200 were recommended to be made shorter than the 230s caused a lip between the more deeply seated bullet and the rim of the case which wants to hang up on the ramp. Is there any reason I can't go back to the old col of 1.250 with the 200 grain? The new bullets are every bit as long as the 230s were so I would think that shortening the overall length will create more pressure with the same amount of powder. I used 4.2gr or 700x in the 230s and 4.4 in the 200s. both well within acceptable range according to the four sources I checked, but the recommended col for the 200s is most commonly around 1.7" although I have gradually worked my way back up to 1.21 now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted August 24, 2014 Max COL is 1.275. Most all my loads for 200 or 230 are at 1.210. I use a max case gauge for checking. If it drops in, its a go. Never had a problem. 45ACP is real fussy about long COL. Most guns I have worked with esp. match barrels prefer the shorter length. Polishing the feed ramp helps a lot also. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sonnylee 20 Posted August 24, 2014 4.8 grains 700x 1.210 xtreme bullet RN 200 g. Average 850 fps or so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heavyopp 167 Posted August 24, 2014 I load a 200 grn Ibeji coated lead SWC -- 4.1 grn promo seated to an OAL of 1.248 This load makes major running just over 840 FPS Just trying to give you an idea on others OAL's 1.7 is well over recommended OAL Exactly what feed problems are you having??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
noylj 5 Posted August 24, 2014 I don't think your .45 is that finicky--sounds like you are using a COL that is too short. If you are using the COL in a manual, remember that is really just the minimum COL the data applies to and is NOT a recommended COL for the Handloader. In most cases with the .45 auto, you will get best results with the longest COL that will chamber completely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sof 0 Posted August 24, 2014 Thanks for the answers. I wanted to correct the length on the 200s above, it is 1.171 not 1.7. I did not know that the col in the manuals is the minimum I thought it was the suggested. Good to know! Glad to hear I can bump it up a bit as the 230s worked well once I got the crimp nice and light but positive as in not a single FTF, but I think I'll try TBill and Sonnylees 1.20 for a while too and maybe bump up to 4,6. I have polished the ramp, but I do think a case gauge is in order here. I am starting to think a chrone would be a goood idea. Any thoughts, features, or models to look for. The problem has been that the slide is not closing all the way. At first with the 230s it was due to too much crimp that caused a bit of bulge in the bullet and bound up against the chamber walls. I ironed that out and had to go through unloading over 330 rounds. Needless to say I now load about 16 test rounds and do a range test first now. The 200s also weren't seating all the way although on thing I saw yesterday was the extractor wasn't slipping over the rim an the base of the cases an occasion. That was at home cycling the rounds by hand gently to try and spot any other possible causes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted August 24, 2014 I think you need to get a taper crimp die. Hornady and RCBS both make a seat/taper crimp die as apposed to a seat/crimp die. Nobody tells you this when you buy your die set and most stock the standard (seat/crimp as in roll crimp) die sets. Price is not bad, about $21-$22 dollars or you could use a regular taper crimp die as an additional step. Lee makes a factory crimp die, but I am not a fan of lee dies. You only want to taper enough to get the round to load properly. Lots a data on this if you snoop around 1911 forums. A max case gauge is a must. I prefer this over using the barrel as barrels may have larger than max allowed chambers. L E Wilson makes great one step check gauges. I have one from Midwayusa I got years ago. Never had any length problems but most I get are case heads that won't seat in gauge. This is where your returning to battery problem may be. That would lead me to suggest your resizing die may not be low enough in the press or you may have a problem with it. I raise the ram up all the way and turn the die in until it hits the ram. Lower the ram and turn the die in an additional 1/8 to 1/4 turn. Raise the ram again an see if it over cams if it does back it off until it stops. Deprime/resize your brass and then check it in the case gauge before flaring and see if it drops in the gauge, if not real smooth try adjusting the resizer die. Shooting Chrony and Competiion Electronics both make reasonable chronographs. I have an old Shooting Chrony that is still going strong, a little beat up, but still working. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gleninjersey 2,139 Posted August 24, 2014 When you get a new batch done and you want to try them out, let me know. Haven't been to the range in a while. Plus have 2 new guns I need to try out! Good luck resolving the problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sof 0 Posted August 24, 2014 Thanks again TBill for advising a relatively noob reloader.. I have a Redding die set and the paper work says it is a taper crimp on the seating die. Actually, I went to the range today and it cycled perfectly on my 16 test rounds. I'll never know for sure what caused the problem as I did a total resetup and changed the case expansion and the seating depth. Didn't change the amount of crimp as it looked pretty good with the new length. I also put a drop of gun oil on the extractor and worked it back and forth a few times just in case though I doubt that was it. I have a seperate taper crimp die for my 9mm and have never had an issue so I'll try this for a full round of 200 or so and if there are any problems invest the 20-25 bucks. 223s next, that ought to be a hoot! Glen, where's that range report on the new pistols? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve_G 51 Posted August 25, 2014 You may also want to check your extractor, it may be a bit tight. What you described as the slide not closing fully is many times a tight extractor. There are some good videos on YouTube to walk you through it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shocker 150 Posted August 25, 2014 You may also want to check your extractor, it may be a bit tight. What you described as the slide not closing fully is many times a tight extractor. There are some good videos on YouTube to walk you through it. I was going to suggest something like this, or maybe the bottom corner of the hook is not chamfered/polished properly or the breech face is rough. If your gun is not feeding ammo that's within spec send it back to Springfield and they'll fix it. My Loaded wasn't feeding SWC so Springfield tuned the extractor and polished the ramp for me (maybe one or two other things, I forget now) and now it works nicely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted August 25, 2014 Case mouth after crimping can be an issue. Some say .469, others .470 or .471. SAAMI max is .473. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sof 0 Posted August 26, 2014 I'll check out the extractor video Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted August 26, 2014 I see you must be on the other end of the county. Need help give me a shout if need be. Always willing to help noob reloaders! Welcome to the club Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zoid 24 Posted August 26, 2014 Man, my Springfield Armory TRP is finicky about it's food. first it refused to feed some 45s I made up with 230 grain FMJs until I cut down on the amount of crimp I used, and now using 200 grain Copper Plated, I had to expand the cases quite a bit more to get the bullet into the brass without shaving it, That, and the fact that most loads for the 200 were recommended to be made shorter than the 230s caused a lip between the more deeply seated bullet and the rim of the case which wants to hang up on the ramp. Is there any reason I can't go back to the old col of 1.250 with the 200 grain? The new bullets are every bit as long as the 230s were so I would think that shortening the overall length will create more pressure with the same amount of powder. I used 4.2gr or 700x in the 230s and 4.4 in the 200s. both well within acceptable range according to the four sources I checked, but the recommended col for the 200s is most commonly around 1.7" although I have gradually worked my way back up to 1.21 now. I didn't have this issue on my TRP, but I did with my rounds and other 1911s. It was the exact same issue. Rounds were "tight" going into the barrel. Could not figure it out and it did end up being the crimp. I basically set it by first setting my COL to where I wanted it to be with zero crimp. Then I would turn the crimp die down maybe a 1/16" turn at a time until it dropped into the barrel of my TRP with absolutely no resistance. That is what I found factory ammo to do so I just tried to replicate the same. With too little or too much crimp the round would not seat all the way into the barrel, or would do so with resistance. After this all the rounds feed awesome. I am using a Lee Pro 1000, Berry's copper plated 200gr flat point bullets, I am not an experience reloader by any means, but I hope this advice helps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BullzeyeNJ 104 Posted August 26, 2014 How does it feed factory ammo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sof 0 Posted August 27, 2014 It has had no issues with factory ammo, nor with my reloads after I get the issues figured out and corrected. It was interesting that the ammo that had to be adjusted to cycle in the TRP worked fine in the ranges Glock rental gun without being changed at all. The crimp seems to be my main issue. First I definately over did it, but after I fixed that using 230 gr bullets, I had what seemed to be an issue with the 200gr copper clad TBill, I'll take you up on the reloading advice at some point in all this. Where are you located? I'm also an EFGA member. When do you shoot there? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted August 27, 2014 Sof, NW Warren County, seven miles NE of the Delaware Water Gap. I am a member at EFGA because I have family in Easton. We can work something out. Drop me a PM when your ready. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites