Arizona Tragedy

[mipafox 438]

 

I won't be shocked if the parents sue the owner of the range for negligence of their instructors and the mental suffering the daughter will have

 

Only in America can you kill someone and then sue them.

 

The father will say "i never approved full auto" or something like that

 

"Make sure you keep that held in otherwise it won't fire...."

 

We'll see.

Most people here don't know the meaning of that firearm, and you are gun people. He handed the girl a 12 foot crocodile. Obviously the parent(s) had no idea what was going on. I wonder if the RO ever fired that gun before. If I was there I would have stopped it at all costs, even if it resulted in criminal charges. If they have video of little girls shooting that thing safely I would like to see it. I can't even fathom that it is possible.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to learn this is the first time or among the first times they have handed that gun to a child. There is no way you can get by doing it for very long. I would expect an accident the very first time. If that RO has fired that gun then this actually seems malicious. I just don't get it.

 

[seamusSU 0]

It looks like the family was on vacation from NJ according to multiple sources. I really hope no one here knows the family. In particular I'm really hoping this isn't a particularly well known NJ 9 year old shooter.

[carl_g 568]

It looks like the family was on vacation from NJ according to multiple sources. I really hope no one here knows the family. In particular I'm really hoping this isn't a particularly well known NJ 9 year old shooter.

looks like it wasn't her.. http://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/index.ssf/2014/08/father_of_9-year-old_competitive_shooter_girl_in_arizona_uzi_accident_not_at_fault.html

[HBecwithFn7 296]

 

looks like it wasn't her.. http://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/index.ssf/2014/08/father_of_9-year-old_competitive_shooter_girl_in_arizona_uzi_accident_not_at_fault.html

 

Thank goodness for that.   And a rare credit to nj.com for letting the "father" have a full say without injecting any "anti-gun" spin on it.... 

[seamusSU 0]

looks like it wasn't her.. http://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/index.ssf/2014/08/father_of_9-year-old_competitive_shooter_girl_in_arizona_uzi_accident_not_at_fault.html

That's great to hear. I just hope they get that girl the help she is definitely going to need.

[voyager9 3,434]

Thank goodness for that. And a rare credit to nj.com for letting the "father" have a full say without injecting any "anti-gun" spin on it....

Agreed. And the father's words were spot on.

[ogfarmer 138]

dont breath to easy, Bryan and crew will be flooding them with their own bs spin soon enough

[DeerSlayer 241]

Tragic! Definitely could have been avoided, poor judgement has cost many lives. This situation is no different. I'm all for kids learning to handle, respect, understand, & learn to shoot firearms. And I have taken many kids out to shoot for their first time. But any FA in hand at that stage of a child's shooting career, is very poor judgement. Someone paid the ultimate price, due to stupidity. I really hope this incident doesn't lead to some new law stopping kids from becoming involved in shooting.

[jackandjill 683]

Opinion articles, supposedly from writers who are "pro gun" already popping up calling for more gun laws.

 

* No FA for kids under 18/21

* Mandatory 'safety' equipment including glasses, ear plugs, equipment restricting the firearm movement etc.

* Stricter gun laws for private property (apparently some 'necessary' gun laws are not enforced on private property)

* Protecting children from adult (including parental) stupidity

.....

 

Who wants to bet that some NJ idle politicians will pick this up and use it to run shooting ranges out of business ?

[jackandjill 683]

"You progress as you add rounds in increments," said Roberts, noting if the girl in the accident had only three rounds, the magazine would've been empty before any could reach the instructor. "Absolutely no way would I ever allow, 'Oh here's a 30-round magazine, have fun. Especially with a novice, you have no idea what they're capable of."

------------------

There is our magic number - 3 rounds.

[Candyman87 10]

"You progress as you add rounds in increments," said Roberts, noting if the girl in the accident had only three rounds, the magazine would've been empty before any could reach the instructor. "Absolutely no way would I ever allow, 'Oh here's a 30-round magazine, have fun. Especially with a novice, you have no idea what they're capable of."

------------------

There is our magic number - 3 rounds.

 

My thoughts exactly. There's no way this kid should have been given a full magazine for her first time off of semi-auto.

 

It's a real shame. I feel for everyone involved and their families. Especially the kid.

[djg0770 481]

"You progress as you add rounds in increments," said Roberts, noting if the girl in the accident had only three rounds, the magazine would've been empty before any could reach the instructor. "Absolutely no way would I ever allow, 'Oh here's a 30-round magazine, have fun. Especially with a novice, you have no idea what they're capable of."

------------------

There is our magic number - 3 rounds.

 

I think you're implying a new mag limit.  I could see someone trying to push that.

[Newtonian 453]

In any activity there will always be a normal distribution of common sense ranging from brilliant to downright stupid.

 

Let's put this into perspective. On Tuesday we were driving between Asheville, NC and Winchester, VA. At one point I was in the left lane passing a truck, at 75-80 mph but maintaining a safe distance between me and the car in front of me. In the rear a woman driver was tailgating me, about 6 feet behind my car. She had two little kids in her vehicle. At least one was not strapped in. I could tell because he kept jumping into the back seat, presumably to torture his sibling, and back again to the front. 

 

A modest deceleration is all it would have taken to splatter that boy's brains into and through that windshield.

 

Stupidity and recklessness are in our DNA.

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

I have video from this place. Looks like same instructor. My friend just got back from a bachelor party and they went there to shoot. His friend was on the Uzi. He almost shot himself and the instructor. I can ask of he cares if I post it. It's crazy!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jeff47 30]

Tom, I'd like to see the video, maybe they have a history of poor oversight, I agree a mag with 2 rds in it would have made more sense.

 

I personally have no problem with a child firing something FA but it depends on the firearm and the level of oversight.  Children have been killed but so have adults.  I read a few years a go a cop testing a Mac10 that was confiscated shot himself in the head and died as he didn't realize that the gun had been modified to full auto and ran away on him. 

 

mipafox, I'm not sure what model it was but I believe an uzi micro has about twice the cyclic rate of fire as a full size uzi, about 1200 rds/min as opposed to a more manageable 600 for the larger model but someone can correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

My condolences to all involved

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

I am not sure if he will let me post. I asked him and he is checking with his friend.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Yahoo just trended the GMA MSM report on a Nevada range that answers, "Why it's OK for Kids to use Uzi's....

Gotta be some anti-gun spin in here somewhere....

[Barms 98]

Don't drag a good guys video into this. PM it. Don't post it.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Don't drag a good guys video into this. PM it. Don't post it.

 

PM to whom?   

 

And I'd beg to differ about the "dragging."  Look at who produced/broadcast it.    The range owner himself may be a good guy (as may be his message), but I'm sure the MSM is trying to spin him as a bad guy (i.e. "Look at how these gun nuts try and justify letting children play with these things... RIDICULOUS! " )...  I think this is the MSM trying to stir the pot even more and get the anti's in a frenzy.

[Barms 98]

Toms friends video. Notjhing good would come from a guy making a video public of him almost shooting himself.

 

Nothing but downside.

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

I will let them decide if they want to post it. And I agree that nothing good would come from it. When he first showed me when he got back over a month ago I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Toms friends video. Notjhing good would come from a guy making a video public of him almost shooting himself.

 

Nothing but downside.

 

Sorry... My bad... Your reply was directly below mine without any quote.  

I also agree, BTW. No good would come from it.

[ogfarmer 138]

BTW the range closed indefinitely yesterday

[wink-_-wink 1]

I am not an RO but shouldnt that instructor be standing on the side of the dominant hand of the shooter?  That way he can place his hands slightly hovering over hers to prevent too much recoil?  As a right handed shooter, he should have been behind and to the right not the left.  I agree there is no way a full clip on FA should have been attempted.  FA is difficult for most grown men I know let alone a young girl.  It is a shame and I am certain legistlation will follow  

[Krdshrk 3,877]

I think they're judging it as an "industrial accident" - no charges filed against anyone...

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot 358]

I am not an RO but shouldnt that instructor be standing on the side of the dominant hand of the shooter? That way he can place his hands slightly hovering over hers to prevent too much recoil?

Brass

[wink-_-wink 1]

Brass

Vs projectile to the head?

[mipafox 438]

But any FA in hand at that stage of a child's shooting career, is very poor judgement.

Wrong, and you don't know what you are talking about.

[mipafox 438]

"You progress as you add rounds in increments," said Roberts, noting if the girl in the accident had only three rounds, the magazine would've been empty before any could reach the instructor. "Absolutely no way would I ever allow, 'Oh here's a 30-round magazine, have fun. Especially with a novice, you have no idea what they're capable of."

------------------

There is our magic number - 3 rounds.

He's never shot that gun, either.

 

No, you can't "work up" a 9 year old girl to shoot that gun.

 

It's the gun, guys. I wouldn't hand a buzzgun to you killers. You tough guys wouldn't be able to handle it.

 

You don't hand that to kids under any circumstances. Just to be clear, "Buzzguns" are generally referred to as full-pistol caliber guns with extremely high rates of fire in a machinepistol or mini/micro form factor. I wouldn't have let the girl shoot a regular UZI either, but that is something that could be accomplished with a can (to make it longer and safer), training, and hands on guns.

 

None of those things would have ameliorated the consequences of a buzz gun.

 

I have had dozens of children her age and younger shoot my MGs and there was never any danger.

[DeerSlayer 241]

Wrong, and you don't know what you are talking about.

They're not ready for that yet in most cases. I suppose there may be larger than average 9 year olds with the shooting experience and upper body strength to handle a non rimfire FA, but probably few and far between. And no I'm not for new laws, restrictions, or bans on ranges making their own rules. If the kid is ready, the kid is ready age shouldn't be a factor. What im saying is by 9 most aren't yet.