Yet another help with NJ gun law question!

[JohnnyB 4,322]

A friend of mine "Really! Not me as you may think, since I would have refused!"  drove to PA today to help a friend move his father

to a nursing home. He moved the contents of his home to storage and rented a pod to move his father's large gun collection to California.

 

During the process of the move, he gave a handgun and a rifle to my buddy, who is an NJ resident! My friend made it home with the two guns

stating "there was no way, given the situation, to do a proper transfer with a COE (He has a Purchase permit in NJ) and in the case of the handgun, an FFL transfer.

 

I told him that personally, I would not have taken the chance of being stopped but the lucky bastard made it home with the two free guns, both new in the box and never fired.

I said you are probably OK now but you took a hell of a chance getting them home!  Was I correct or does he have more to worry about?

[PK90 3,570]

I think the odds of getting caught are 10 billion to one.

[JT Custom Guns 956]

  

[JoeGuns 14]

I think the odds of getting caught are 10 billion to one.

lol

[JoeGuns 14]

Good one JT

[Gus 33]

 "there was no way, given the situation, to do a proper transfer with a COE (He has a Purchase permit in NJ) and in the case of the handgun, an FFL transfer.

 

 

Then there is no way he should have accepted the firearms. Why take the chance of getting locked up for a long time? Just plain stupid.

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

What's the question? He's already done it and would be best served by never discussing it in a public forum.

 

eta: EVER!

Edited September 1, 2014 by Mr.Stu

[mipafox 438]

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

My concern is that if the cops ever search his house or he takes that handgun to the range and they detain him they will determine that handgun was not purchased by him legally in NJ. Next question is, how did he get it? If he lived in Jersey all his life it's a slam-dunk. If not, they probably figure out where he got it pretty quick if they pursue it.

 

I'm sure it varies somewhat by department, but when a cop gets his hands on a handgun during a house search or a traffic stop how often would they try to determine if the person obtained the handgun legally? I'm guessing it varies with type of investigation or level of suspicion?

[Newtonian 453]

As I understand the law you need the paperwork to purchase firearms but not to own them. I've been advised in this forum by several people that I don't need the salmon-colored receipt, ever. 

 

I am not advocating that people do what your friend did, as it is illegal. However, once the act is done the grounds for prosecuting him seem to vanish -- provided he invokes his 5th amendment right and keeps quiet, and his "friend" doesn't give him up in a public forum.

 

Now watch this thread go "poof!"

[Midwest 28]

 Going to another state (no matter what state) and bringing back a firearm (as defined by the ATF) and bringing it back to your state (no matter what state) without going through an FFL (or having an FFL or FFL 03 C&R-if it is a C&R firearm) is a violation of Federal Law.

 

This is regardless if money was given or not, and regardless what states are involved. Firearms are regulated through interstate commerce.

 

The only exceptions are

 

If the firearms are inherited (and you are named in the will and I think you need a copy of the will).

 

Or the item (s) are not defined federally as a firearm such as a black powder gun, airgun or antique as defined by the feds.

 

Black powder guns, airguns or antiques are not firearms by Federal Law and therefore NOT subject to the 1968 Gun Control Act.

 

Or if the person moves  from one state to another.

 

You have an FFL  or (C&R License and the firearm is a C&R).

 

Examples for someone living in a so called "free state".

 

I live in Kentucky. I cannot go to Ohio or Indiana (or any other state) and obtain any firearm privately without going through a FFL.

 

I cannot buy or receive a handgun from any state except Kentucky.

 

I can go to Ohio or Indiana or any state and buy a rifle through an FFL.

 

I can go anywhere in Kentucky and buy a handgun or rifle privately.

 

I can inherit firearms from out of state (as could anyone else).

 

I can buy Black powder guns, airguns or antiques from any state.

 

Those are Federal Laws and the law of the land irregardless of what state one may live in. It has been that way since the 1968 Gun Control Act. The 1968 GCA Specifically regulates interstate commerce of firearms.

 

Violation of the 1968 GCA is up to 10 years in jail and up to a $10,000 fine

 

.

[TooBigToFit 2]

You need new friends.

[siderman 1,137]

Never understood the wisdom of posting on a public forum the acts of those that break the law but then again I barely got out of High School so what do I know.

[Howard 538]

Not that YOU would ever get caught, but didn't you violate the law by illegally giving someone a handgun as well?

[Gus 33]

Never understood the wisdom of posting on a public forum the acts of those that break the law but then again I barely got out of High School so what do I know.

 

You don't need any education to know that when someone offers you 2 free guns that do not belong to them in the first place, no paperwork or questions asked, YOU SAY NO!

[Polak 3]

Federal "pound-me-in-the-ass" prison for your friend.

 

[mipafox 438]

As I understand the law you need the paperwork to purchase firearms but not to own them. I've been advised in this forum by several people that I don't need the salmon-colored receipt, ever. 

 

I am not advocating that people do what your friend did, as it is illegal. However, once the act is done the grounds for prosecuting him seem to vanish -- provided he invokes his 5th amendment right and keeps quiet, and his "friend" doesn't give him up in a public forum.

 

Now watch this thread go "poof!"

I believe there are limited number of ways to possess a firearm in NJ, otherwise it is illegal by default?

 

You may not need paperwork to own one but all firearms are illegal in NJ unless you acquired them through a listed means and thereafter possess them under lawful exceptions. So, I think you need an explanation to own one otherwise it is illegal?

[djg0770 481]

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

 

He can claim to have inherited it.

[mipafox 438]

He can claim to have inherited it.

Don't they have a record of who purchased it?

[Newtonian 453]

I believe there are limited number of ways to possess a firearm in NJ, otherwise it is illegal by default?

 

You may not need paperwork to own one but all firearms are illegal in NJ unless you acquired them through a listed means and thereafter possess them under lawful exceptions. So, I think you need an explanation to own one otherwise it is illegal?

 

Warning: A post similar to one you're about to read has caused more than one thread to die a premature death.

 

As I understand it guns are not registered in NJ, nor is it illegal merely to possess a gun provided you meet the legal requirements. You may not be able to hunt or go to the range with it, but that is a different discussion. I cannot believe that I'm the only person in these forums who would be hard pressed to come up with a receipt for a firearm purchased 20-30-40 years ago.  

 

Law enforcement would need both the opportunity and an excuse to investigate how a person acquired a particular firearm. They'd have to search your house or car with a warrant or under some kind of dire suspicion, or have probable cause to detain you at the range. If that happens you're probably in deep doo-doo already.

 

Even if the cops were evil and corrupt and maniacal and targeting gun owners, they must prove you acquired the gun illegally. You are under no obligation to prove you did not, or for that matter tell them anything that would help them charge and convict you. Everyone should watch this video, by the way, with respect to talking to the police.

 

Had this type of wild goose chase search been fruitful in obtaining convictions, there'd be a cop car parked outside of every range in New Jersey. 

 

This reminds me of the "what if I bought a house and found a handgun in the attic" thread of a few months ago.

 

Again, this is a philosophical-legal discussion. I am in NO WAY advocating acquiring firearms illegally, for ANY PURPOSE or UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER. I am not advocating pulling the wool over law enforcement's eyes, or trying to beat the system. Given the severe penalties, anyone who does is a goddamn fool, including the O.P.'s "friend."

[Midwest 28]

This isn't a story about NJ gun laws, this is a story about someone violating the 1968 Gun Control Act by obtaining a firearm in another state without a FFL. 

[Howard 538]

Well you may be hard pressed to come up with a receipt for a firearm purchased 20-30-40 years ago, but say you have continuously lived only in NJ for the past 10 years - how are you going to explain that new Glock gen4 gun you are in possession of?  It could have only been obtained through a NJ P2P or through a copy of a Will.  They can check the state records for the P2P and if you don't have a copy of that Will; well you do the math.

[T Bill 649]

I think the odds of getting caught are 10 billion to one.

Gotta to with PK90 on this one.

[45Doll 5,873]

Choosing to deliberately break a law (any law) and accept the consequences if caught is a personal decision.

 

My only additional thought: tell your friend to never, under any circumstance, position or use either firearm for self defense.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Don't they have a record of who purchased it?

Possibly NOT.  Original owner is being "put in a Home".  Prior to '68 friends of mine bought all sorts of guns, including hand guns, THROUGH THE US MAIL!  And it was all legal.  So if these guns are of that age, there may not be any paperwork on them at all...........

 

We weren't told make and model of guns either.  If they're cap and ball revolvers or other black powder arms or antiques, the '68 Gun Control Act doesn't apply since the Feds don't consider black powder to be guns.......

 

Lots of unanswered questions here......

 

Dave

[illy 1]

Setting aside the two guns that came to NJ, I have a feeling that whole gun collection to California thing is a clusterfark just waiting to happen.

[Stonecoldchavez 92]

Choosing to deliberately break a law (any law) and accept the consequences if caught is a personal decision.

 

My only additional thought: tell your friend to never, under any circumstance, position or use either firearm for self defense.

 

This exactly. This is what we call in the business as a "throwaway". Since it was never legally purchased by this new owner it cannot be traced back to him.

 

I have never heard of, yet it doesn't mean it hasn't happened, of someone at a range or store asking anyone for proof of purchase of a gun. Do many people carry their P2P copies of their receipts with them?

 

I say don't worry about it, use the guns, and like above don't use them for self-defense or be cautious of domestic violence charge against you.

[JT Custom Guns 956]

[Blacksmythe 71]

This is what we call in the business as a "throwaway". .

It would look perfect next to a scumbags body.........

[Newtonian 453]

Well you may be hard pressed to come up with a receipt for a firearm purchased 20-30-40 years ago, but say you have continuously lived only in NJ for the past 10 years - how are you going to explain that new Glock gen4 gun you are in possession of?  It could have only been obtained through a NJ P2P or through a copy of a Will.  They can check the state records for the P2P and if you don't have a copy of that Will; well you do the math.

The issue of traceability has come up several times since I joined this forum. The general consensus was that the state system is paper-based and therefore, for all practical purposes, non-searchable. If this individual had been issued a P2P after the gun was manufactured it's unlikely that the investigators would have the time to go through the records of every police department in the state to prove that he did NOT purchase the gun legally. He is under no obligation to tell them that he did not live in Paterson last year or Sussex the year before.

 

Also, does everyone who has ever inherited anything have a copy of the will? 

 

They have to 1) have a suspicion/warrant to investigate in the first place and 2) prove he broke the law. He does not have to prove he didn't break the law. As long as he keeps his mouth shut they probably don't have a case. But if he's under investigation for some other crime all bets are probably off.

 

Again, I AM NOT ADVOCATING BREAKING NJ GUN LAWS, BUT MERELY POINTING OUT A POSSIBLE SCENARIO for "MY FRIEND."

[Stonecoldchavez 92]

This is what we call in the business as a "throwaway". .

It would look perfect next to a scumbags body.........

 

Exactly.  Not that I would ever condone such behavior.....