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Oh you got stabbed? We will take those guns sir...

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Wow!  So this dudes wife stabs him, the cops show up and now he is in jail on weapons charges....

 

http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/2014/10/saddle_brook_man_had_195_guns_300_pounds_of_gunpowder_at_home_prosecutor_says.html#incart_m-rpt-1

 

I mean he is 65, so he has had a long time to acquire such an impressive collection.  I just think this is a bit ridiculous. Not that he had nearly 200 guns but that he is the victim of a crime and is now being punished for having weapons he likely had for YEARS!

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i read part of the article from a link on farcebook. they're charging him apparently for the tommygun, sten, and an m1 carbine amongst other things. but.......wasn't the removal of his firearms illegal? thus they can't charge him due to illegally obtained evidence?

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Really?

 

 

A full auto Sten and Thompson are Class III weapons and are ILLEGAL in this state and without the proper 'stamp'

 

That being said he should have known better.

yea, he should have. i'm right there with that. but.....how many of you here have said that if your stuff is suddenly made illegal, that you won't comply? seems that that's pretty much what he did.

 

 that all said, if i'd had that stuff when it became illegal, it'd have moved to a friends home in pa, 'cause my skinny ass ain't risking going to jail.

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Maybe he can get off on an illegal search, but unfortunately I have no sympathy if he truly had illegal full auto weapons.

 

Until he committed a "real" crime with them he has my full sympathy. His safe-queen machine gun poses no threat to anyone.

 

An unjust law is no law at all.

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Wow!  So this dudes wife stabs him, the cops show up and now he is in jail on weapons charges....

 

http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/2014/10/saddle_brook_man_had_195_guns_300_pounds_of_gunpowder_at_home_prosecutor_says.html#incart_m-rpt-1

 

I mean he is 65, so he has had a long time to acquire such an impressive collection.  I just think this is a bit ridiculous. Not that he had nearly 200 guns but that he is the victim of a crime and is now being punished for having weapons he likely had for YEARS!

....what??  So you think that just because he broke the law for years and nobody ever found out, it should be overlooked?  That's absurd.

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"...The legal limit of black gunpowder that can be stored residentially is 50 pounds and 100 pounds for the smokeless variety...".

 

OMG 100 pounds ?  Who needs 100 pounds unless they are terrorist ? </sarcasm>  Some Dem is already crafting new Bill around the limit on what can be stored at home. I was never aware of any limit. Is there a legal limit ?

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The only thing this guy did right was refuse consent to open his safes.  That gives him a least a chance at winning a suppression motion.  Even assuming that the police can lawfully take custody of a DV victim's firearms when the offender (spouse) had been arrested and removed from the premises, they had no exigent circumstances that should excuse their failure to seek a search warrant to open the safes.  They could have simply posted an officer to guard the safe until a judge heard and decided the warrant application.  To use the Jaws of Life without bothering to seek a warrant seems highly suspect to me, at least.  Safes were not going anywhere and the firearms were fully secured inside.  Motion to suppress granted.

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I believe, if they article is correct, he had 30 round mags also. So he will get jammed up on them. If they were in the safe, I hope it gets surpressed. I wish we knew more details about why there was a rush to open the safe. Just because he denied them access to it should not be sufficient reason to pry it open.

 

Also, according to the aricle the neighbors said he was a gun collector.

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In NJ, cops can seize any weapons at the scene of an act of domestic violence. It doesn't matter if the weapons are the victim's or attacker's. All LE needs to do is to learn that a weapon is present on the premises in order to legally confiscate said weapons.

 

After that it is purely up to the courts to determine if the weapons will be returned or not, all the way up to giving them the power to revoke FPID's and forced forfeiture of weapons. There are even protections that it is illegal to bring civil actions against LE for not returning seized weapons!! So in essence, the cops can keep them forever, and you can't even sue to get them back.

 

2C:25-21d : http://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2009/title-2c/section-2c-25/2c-25-21/

 

 

d. (1) In addition to a law enforcement officers authority to seize any weapon that is contraband, evidence or an instrumentality of crime, a law enforcement officer who has probable cause to believe that an act of domestic violence has been committed shall:

(a)question persons present to determine whether there are weapons on the premises; and

(b)upon observing or learning that a weapon is present on the premises, seize any weapon that the officer reasonably believes would expose the victim to a risk of serious bodily injury. If a law enforcement officer seizes any firearm pursuant to this paragraph, the officer shall also seize any firearm purchaser identification card or permit to purchase a handgun issued to the person accused of the act of domestic violence.

(2)A law enforcement officer shall deliver all weapons, firearms purchaser identification cards and permits to purchase a handgun seized pursuant to this section to the county prosecutor and shall append an inventory of all seized items to the domestic violence report.

 

Besides this terrible law, my issue lies in the cruel and unusual punishment associated with the victimless crime of simply possessing a prohibited weapon, in this case banned in NJ rifles and normal capacity magazines. Crimes where no victim is present do not warrant the kind of jail time that the state and federal laws prescribe. I feel the same way with drug crimes in this country. Its no wonder we lead the world in prisoners of 743 per 100K population and continues to climb.

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I believe that paragraph (d) states "exposes victim", well then why would you seize the victim's weapons.   But, it's all mute now, up to the courts to decide.  This state sux, period.

 

As long as LE can assert that they "reasonably believe" the weapons can expose the victim to risk. In this case, the guns being under the same roof of the attacker (wife) is reason enough for them to invoke the seizure under color of law.

 

OT but read up on civil forfeiture laws if you haven't before. They vary state by state, but in many, LE can even confiscate large sums of cash for no practical reason simply by stating that they "reasonably believe" that said cash has been acquired via non-specific illegal means. It is then up to you to hire a lawyer and battle through the legal gauntlet to prove that your cash is legit and attempt to get a court order to have it returned.

 

Bottom line, your stuff is only yours unless the govt take an interest in it. If they do, they can figure out a way to make it look legal, and you the look like the bad guy.

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....what??  So you think that just because he broke the law for years and nobody ever found out, it should be overlooked?  That's absurd.

No i think that his safes should not have been illegally opened jecause he was the victim of a crime.  I am not advocating breaking the law on his part, I am saying the way this went down is absurd.

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The search and confiscation of the safe should be tossed but prob wont. Once the attacker(wife) was hauled off the victem(husband) was no longer "exposed" to a threat and there goes the cause to remove any weapons. A reasonable person of authority on the scene should have been on top of that . Its that simple. Do you think anyone there knew the attack on the safe may have been wrong but was hesitant to speak up? Thats the scary part to me that when these incidents happen mob mentality takes over not the law.

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The statutes regarding the amount of powder to he allowed in a residence is taken from the NFPA, IBC and UCC codes.  The requirements are essentially a building code restriction.

 

Due to the hazardous nature of the material and the type of construction most homes are (V-B: Combustible) the quantity of the material has to be limited. 

 

I deal with this every day at work, when clients want to store large quantities of flammable liquids they are required to build room capable of withstanding 2 hours of continuous fire, vapor monitoring systems and so on.

 

The powder limitation is not a grab for your rights, but a building code and public safety issue.

 

This play by the police is pry open this man's safes after he was attached is ridiculous.  This is why I don't trust any cops and need to get out of this damn state as soon as possible. 

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