U.S. Army wants a new gun

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot 358]

the movie references in the CNN article.  No love Sig or H&K in either article which is a shame.  Can't imagine M&P or Glock being a superior combat pistol. (edit:  let me rephrase, I can't imagine Sig or H&K being inferior and unworthy of consideration).

 

 

1)  http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/03/news/companies/army-gun-new-beretta/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

 

2)  http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-12-04/will-the-military-pistol-contract-return-to-american-hands

 

 

NEW YORK (CNNMoney)

 

The U.S. Army is seeking a new gun.

 

After about 30 years of using the Beretta as the primary sidearm pistol for the U.S. military, the Pentagon is seeking a new gun contract.

 

For gun manufacturers, this kind of a contract is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

 

While the Beretta lasted three decades, the U.S. military's first semiautomatic standard-issue sidearm, the M1911 from Colt, lasted nearly 90 years. It was issued during the U.S. war in the Philippines through the World Wars to Vietnam and beyond.

 

No wonder manufacturers are already starting to line up. An Army spokesman told CNNMoney that a request for proposal for a new standard-issue sidearm is going out in January.

 

After 30 years with the Beretta M9, the U.S. Army is looking for a new standard-issue sidearm.

Smith & Wesson (SWHC) and General Dynamics (GD) have announced that they are entering the M&P, a popular pistol, into the competition.

 

Any contract with the U.S. Army is a big deal, and not just because American soldiers will be carrying them for many years. But guns chosen by the military achieve cult status, used as iconic weapons in James Bond and other action movies, and become highly desirable among civilian gun owners too.

 

The Beretta M9, used by the U.S. Army since 1985, is manufactured by a 500-year-old Italian company, which has a factory in Maryland. The Beretta was the "lethal weapon" in the 1987 box office hit action movie "Lethal Weapon."

Gabriele de Plano, vice president of marketing military sales for Beretta, said his company has sold 600,000 M9s to the Department of Defense, mostly for use by the Army. It currently has a contract to sell 20,000 more.

 

The aluminum-framed Beretta's main competitor has been the Glock, an Austrian-made, partially polymer pistol that went mainstream with its appearance in "Die Hard."

 

The lightweight Glock revolutionized handguns, with its innovative design using polymer, or plastic, in the handle and frame, instead of metal or wood. The Glock has since become one of the most popular handguns used by cops, as well as civilians.

 

The Army has not specified whether it wants these lighter plastic-framed handguns. But it already made that switch for rifles during the Vietnam War, when it swapped its heavy wood-and-metal M-14 for the mostly plastic M-16, and eventually switched to an even lighter and more compact rifle, the currently-issued M4.

 

Smith & Wesson's M&P pistol, which will be entering the competition, is made primarily of plastic.

 

Smith & Wesson seems to believe the Army would want to go plastic. The company says that its polymer M&P pistol is a good fit for the U.S. Army, which is looking for "a new modular handgun system that can be easily adjusted to fit all hand sizes."

 

Polymer pistols have become increasingly popular as lightweight and ergonomic, particularly among women, a fast-growing demographic among gun users. 

 

 

Glock vs. Smith & Wesson: A Shootout for the Pentagon's New Pistol Contract

 

By Paul M. Barrett December 04, 2014

------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

For gun manufacturers, no customer rivals the Pentagon for prestige and revenue potential. That’s why, after years of anticipation, firearm makers are mobilizing for the U.S. Army’s imminent competition to replace the Beretta M9 pistol, the American soldier’s standard sidearm since 1985.

 

The procurement process for several hundred thousand new pistols formally begins in January and is expected to last about two years. Based on more than 15 years of reporting on the gun business, I’d identify the early favorites as a much-improved Smith & Wesson (SWHC), which enjoys a made-in-the-USA marketing edge, and the formidable Glock of Austria.

 

For a second opinion, I asked longtime industry consultant and former National Rifle Association organizer Richard Feldman for some snap handicapping. “Beretta starts with a 30-year history of supplying the Army, and that counts for something,” said Feldman, now the president of the Independent Firearm Owners Association, an advocacy group based in Rindge, N.H. “S&W, which lost a lot of police and civilian business to Glock in the 1980s and 1990s, has transformed itself into a modern firearm manufacturing enterprise with much better quality than in the past. Glock, barely in existence the last time this contract was up, is undeniably a powerful contender.”

 

“Oddly,” Feldman continued, “Colt, despite its iconic role in American firearm history, isn’t even a contender.” That won’t come as news to readers of Bloomberg Businessweek. We’ve charted the demise of West Hartford (Conn.)-based Colt under the control of latter-day private equity owners.

 

Pentagon officials have been talking for years about shelving the semiautomatic M9, made by an American unit of the Italian-owned Beretta. Daryl Easlick, a project officer with the Army’s Maneuver Center of Excellence at Fort Benning, Ga., told the website Military.com in July that the Pentagon would replace its entire inventory of 9mm Berettas for something more accurate, lethal, and reliable: “It’s a total system replacement—new gun, new ammo, new holster, everything.”

 

Handguns are secondary weapons for rank-and-file infantry soldiers armed with rifles. Pistols are carried by certain officers, tank crew members, truck drivers, special operations troops, and others on the battlefield.

 

For years, front-line war fighters have complained that the M9′s 9mm round lacks sufficient stopping power. “The 9mm doesn’t score high with soldier feedback,” Easlick told Military.com. The Army and its sister services—the Marines, Air Force, and Navy—want a sidearm and ammunition round that will cause more damage, he said. “We have to do better than our current 9mm.”

 

In a sense, the military appears poised to go back to the future. The Beretta 9mm replaced a Colt .45 caliber model that had served as the Army standard for generations. The .45 round is larger and therefore deadlier than the 9mm. In the 1980s, however, the Pentagon decided to follow the lead of NATO allies that preferred lighter, less expensive 9mm ammunition.

 

Underscoring its determination to return the military pistol contract to American hands, S&W recently announced a joint venture with defense-contracting heavyweight General Dynamics (GD). Their handgun candidate will be based on a model called the M&P (for military and police). “This partnership combines General Dynamics’ proven legacy in manufacturing military armaments with Smith & Wesson’s extensive experience in designing and manufacturing firearms for commercial applications,” Tim McAuliffe, a General Dynamics vice president, said in a Nov. 24 statement.

 

Glock revolutionized the handgun marketplace beginning in the mid-1980s, when as an infant company it introduced the first modern large-capacity pistol made primarily from industrial-strength plastic, known as polymer. S&W and other manufacturers spent years trying to catch up to the innovative Austrian manufacturer founded by Gaston Glock in a garage workshop next to his suburban Vienna home.

 

Over the years, Glock has won the business of two-thirds of municipal and state police departments in the U.S., as well as federal agencies such as the FBI and DEA. A number of military special-ops units that choose their own small arms outside of the main Army procurement channels use the Glock, as well. The Austrian gun is known for its ease of use and reliability under adverse conditions.

 

An oddball factor could impede Glock, however. Its 85-year-old billionaire founder and owner is locked in a fierce legal wrestling match against his ex-wife, Helga, who helped him get the company aloft. She claims he cheated her out of her rightful share of the manufacturing empire, as well as hundreds of millions of dollars in cash.

 

In a civil racketeering suit filed in federal court in Atlanta in October, Helga Glock accused her former spouse of theft, money laundering, and sundry other financial illegalities. Gaston Glock has denied wrongdoing and accused his ex-wife of disingenuously escalating their Austrian divorce hostilities to extract more money from him.

 

The merits of Helga Glock’s suit will likely take a while to get sorted out. In the meantime, though, the Pentagon might hesitate to engage with a foreign corporation alleged to have used shell companies to transfer firearm profits away from the U.S. and toward low-tax jurisdictions in the Caribbean, Latin America, and Europe.

[MartyZ 692]

I personally hope they choose SW, If SW stock goes up I can afford a few more HKs 

[henrym 19]

Sig will win this with the 320. Mark my words.

 

The 320 is a reboot of the p250 idea except striker fired in response to the trigger complaints.

 

The gun was designed around the requirements for the pistol trials.

[Vlad G 345]

Someone wake me up when they buy something, this like the 4th iteration of the "Army wants new pistol" thing in the last decade. 

[T Bill 649]

I'm with Vlad on this one.  Can't see them going to a new pistol when military funding at the Capitol is shaky at best.  What will become of our NATO alliance?  One of the reasons we ended up with the 9MM is the first place.  Sounds like someone over at the DOD has champagne tastes and caviar dreams again.

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot 358]

True.  A new pistol seems like long odds, especially when the House Armed Services Committee is pushing for them to simply upgrade the M9.

 

Nonetheless, Picatinny is now taking bids on the MHS program with a release date of January 2, 2015.  It will be interesting to see who submits what by then (on an otherwise slow news cycle).

[djg0770 481]

They already use Glocks.  I don't know what the BFD is.

[n4p226r 105]

why even do the trial.  just pick the glock and be done with it.  they could sell the m9s with a certificate to verify they are genuine US govt surplus m9s and easily get $400 a piece for them, making the glock a free upgrade.  especially now that you can get a US made gen 4 g17 or g19 

[Shawnmoore81 623]

My bet is the sig 320

[Vlad G 345]

why even do the trial.  just pick the glock and be done with it.  they could sell the m9s with a certificate to verify they are genuine US govt surplus m9s and easily get $400 a piece for them, making the glock a free upgrade.  especially now that you can get a US made gen 4 g17 or g19 

 

Because really the Glock is not a perfect thing. With these sorts of things you are trying to figure out which gun's weaknesses are the ones you care about the least, or at least you would do it if you were honest about it. 

 

Plus Glock is probably a politically bad choice because of their history of douchebaggery.  There would be a lot of flack. 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot 358]

they could sell the m9s with a certificate to verify they are genuine US govt surplus m9s and easily get $400 a piece for them, making the glock a free upgrade.

 

That would be tops.  Unfortunately, the days of milsurp arms passing from military to civvies is long gone.  Clinton pretty much ended that.  They would rather destroy $1 billion of ammo in Afghanistan than try to dump it on the surplus market.

[Springfield1911 22]

It's the government. Lowest bidder gets the deal.

[Shocker 150]

It's the government. Lowest bidder gets the deal.

 

Yes, but it's lowest LIFE CYCLE costs. If HK comes in with a $1000 gun but gives full TDP and rights to the gov for free (hahahahaha) they could beat a $400 gun easily.

[Carcano 14]

why even do the trial.  just pick the glock and be done with it.  they could sell the m9s with a certificate to verify they are genuine US govt surplus m9s and easily get $400 a piece for them, making the glock a free upgrade.  especially now that you can get a US made gen 4 g17 or g19 

 

You will not see those M9's on the surplus market, they will likely be destroyed the same as other US Govt. small arms. Days of US Mil gun/ammo surplus is long gone, only see foreign surplus small arms being imported.

 

Would like to see S&W win the contract, I like the M&P but the Glock stands a good chance.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Maybe holder will send em to the Mexican cartels

[Carcano 14]

Maybe holder will send em to the Mexican cartels

 

600,000 M9's ..... Better supply 5,000,000 rounds of ammo min. to go with them

[302w 83]

I wouldn't be surprised if Glock or S&W don't get the contract. I would think a DA/SA with a safety would be preferable because strikers with no safety is too newfangled and "unsafe". M&P would definitely have the safety if awarded.

 

Also, I've read that a bunch of aluminum frames have been broken by people being reckless with the M9. I would think plastic would be more of a deterrent, although I'm sure people said the same thing about the AR15 and broken frames aren't too common.

[Carcano 14]

I wouldn't be surprised if Glock or S&W don't get the contract. I would think a DA/SA with a safety would be preferable because strikers with no safety is too newfangled and "unsafe". M&P would definitely have the safety if awarded.

 

Also, I've read that a bunch of aluminum frames have been broken by people being reckless with the M9. I would think plastic would be more of a deterrent, although I'm sure people said the same thing about the AR15 and broken frames aren't too common.

 

I rough handle guns all the time, tortured a AR too...can't see how someone is going to easily crack any pistol frame or rifle receiver. Sure combat use is going to put a lot of wear and tear on a pistol but the M9's are solid pistol, the S&W might stand a chance.

[Blacksmythe 71]

Didn't they have a JPP a few years ago? Another waste of money. The only thing that comes out of it is that we the consumer might get some cool "almost military guns."

IE, P226 combat, P220 combat FNX 45 Tactical, Glock 21s with Pic rail.

[Sixtytwo327 14]

The Internet forum wars will be even more epic.

[Vlad G 345]

I rough handle guns all the time, tortured a AR too...can't see how someone is going to easily crack any pistol frame or rifle receiver. Sure combat use is going to put a lot of wear and tear on a pistol but the M9's are solid pistol, the S&W might stand a chance.

 

M9s used to break locking blocks. I believe that is fixed now, but the older guns with hot ammo would crack the locking blocks rather rapidly.

[RUTGERS95 890]

Beretta is fine, no issues on durability whatsoever in the sandbox however, the fine sand did create issues but this was common with most platforms.