RUTGERS95 889 Posted December 25, 2014 While some fine suggestions, there is only 1 .308 battle rifle worthy of this discussion and mine is on the way.....LMT MWS...battle proven, accurate, well made, reliable........ Can be had for 2300 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted December 25, 2014 So the Scar17, HK417, and the SR25 are not worthy of discussion? Keep in mind that the only one I haven't owned is the HK. In my opinion the MWS is too heavy as a battle rifle. Its fine as a DMR and that is what the Brits adopted it as. As a battle rifle, the SCAR is simply very hard to beat. They are all reliable so weight becomes a key deciding factor. Having run the MWS in some 3 gun comps, shooting on the move or in cases where the amount of ground covered is significant, it made controlling the bob and weave a bit of a challenge. To add to that the balance is a bit forward over a normal 308 as the barrel extension is pretty massive for the quick barrel change feature and likely contributes to the front end portly feel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted December 26, 2014 The 716 will use PMAGS and is a nice less expensive .308 AR. I don't own one but have fired it and it's quite nice. I have two DPMS formatted .308 ARs that I assembled one with a DPMS marched receiver set and BCG the other black rain Norguard. Both rifles are using rainier arms ultra match barrels and are wonderfully smooth and accurate. I also have a SCAR 17s. You are making a mistake dismissing the scar because of the NJ compliance. It is an amazingly smooth shooting gun. The felt recoil is amazingly low from a light package. I have not fired a REPR, always wanted to, but I have fired the H&K 417 civilian version (I don't remember what HK model number is for the semi-auto civilian gun). It is a true AR platform and is one of the nicest rifles I've ever fired, but like the REPR they cost more than 4k. Someone mentioned the SOCOM and they have a great reputation. If I could find the version with out the rails on the front I'd consider one. I felt the railed version was ridiculously heavy to hold for any period of time. I've never fired a PTR or FAL. However, you should reconsider the Scar. The scar magazines are proprietary but aren't hard to get anymore. A bit more expensive than metal 308 mags. Some people replace the lower for PMAG compatibility. I wouldn't bother and I bought mine two years ago when 10 round mags were nearly non existant.l You mentioned you wanted it to be a battle rifle. I don't think you could by the REPR any longer with the sub 20" barrel. I would say my DPMS rifles are to heavy for to be carried for an extended period. The HK undoubtedly is reasonable to carry. However the Scar is well balanced and light for a .308. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tony357 386 Posted December 26, 2014 http://www.fulton-armory.com/FAR-308-Titan.aspx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DFNS111 0 Posted January 9, 2015 Definitely SCAR 17. I love mine here in Jersey, compliant stock and all. But a PTR 91 is on my short list for coming purchases. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RUTGERS95 889 Posted January 10, 2015 So the Scar17, HK417, and the SR25 are not worthy of discussion? Keep in mind that the only one I haven't owned is the HK. In my opinion the MWS is too heavy as a battle rifle. Its fine as a DMR and that is what the Brits adopted it as. As a battle rifle, the SCAR is simply very hard to beat. They are all reliable so weight becomes a key deciding factor. Having run the MWS in some 3 gun comps, shooting on the move or in cases where the amount of ground covered is significant, it made controlling the bob and weave a bit of a challenge. To add to that the balance is a bit forward over a normal 308 as the barrel extension is pretty massive for the quick barrel change feature and likely contributes to the front end portly feel. agree that sr25 belongs in the discussion for all the reason I posted earlier. I would still do the mws given the OP price point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lublin 3 Posted January 20, 2015 PTR91 vote from me! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted January 23, 2015 I'm picking up a Scar 17 soon enough... tax return come on! Weight was the final factor for me.. What does it weight 8lbs? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MidwestPX 172 Posted January 23, 2015 So the Scar17, HK417, and the SR25 are not worthy of discussion? Keep in mind that the only one I haven't owned is the HK. In my opinion the MWS is too heavy as a battle rifle. Its fine as a DMR and that is what the Brits adopted it as. As a battle rifle, the SCAR is simply very hard to beat. They are all reliable so weight becomes a key deciding factor. Having run the MWS in some 3 gun comps, shooting on the move or in cases where the amount of ground covered is significant, it made controlling the bob and weave a bit of a challenge. To add to that the balance is a bit forward over a normal 308 as the barrel extension is pretty massive for the quick barrel change feature and likely contributes to the front end portly feel. This x11ty. I've got a MWS, a SCAR 17, and a self-built Mega .308 with an ACOG that weighs nearly a full pound less than the MWS does bare. I built the Mega rifle because the MWS's weight was simply too much to ignore and it's being repurposed with a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel. The only negative to the SCAR17 IMO is the proprietary mags which can be addressed with a Handl Defense lower. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
S3_Rider 0 Posted February 15, 2015 There's one for sale on newjerseyhunter http://www.newjerseyhunter.com/forums/82-classifieds-free/182059-f-s-ptr-91-scc.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lublin 3 Posted February 16, 2015 That is not a great price. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blake 50 Posted February 16, 2015 Lol yea there is a vendor here that has them for sale for less than that new out the door. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carcano 14 Posted February 16, 2015 There's one for sale on newjerseyhunter http://www.newjerseyhunter.com/forums/82-classifieds-free/182059-f-s-ptr-91-scc.html I can order one new (and compliant from the factory) for $1,039. That guy is smoking crack asking that much for a used PTR-91. http://shop.georgiagunstore.com/index.php?crn=610&rn=12238&action=show_detail Want a nice bipod? you can find used original H&K bipods for around $120-$150. For around $400-$450 you can grab a nice used original HK claw mount and military issue optic for the G3. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carcano 14 Posted February 16, 2015 Lol yea there is a vendor here that has them for sale for less than that new out the door. Who has them in-stock in NJ? I have never seen them in stores always had my H&K clones ordered and transferred by NJ FFL's but looked and never saw a PTR in any stores??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RUTGERS95 889 Posted February 16, 2015 cdccn has them for 799 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blake 50 Posted February 16, 2015 Who has them in-stock in NJ? I have never seen them in stores always had my H&K clones ordered and transferred by NJ FFL's but looked and never saw a PTR in any stores??? Jt custom guns in lanoka harbor keeps them in stock I believe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan 177 Posted February 16, 2015 OP: I have my M1A Scout up for sale over at Legend Firearms for $1100, if you happen to be looking at the M1A series. She's a great shooter in excellent condition. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carcano 14 Posted February 16, 2015 Here is mine, 12.69" barrel with brake to bring it to 16". All original HK parts and FA bolt carrier (if you ever get a registered pack). Built on a PTR receiver by Vector Arms in Utah and it's exclusive to Kelly Enterprises in Florida, it's NJ legal the way it comes from the factory. 1/10 TWIST,COLD HAMMER FORGED RCM 4145V ,12 FLUTE G3K MACHINEGUN RATED BARREL, PERFECT FOR A F/A SEAR HOST GUN, NEW PTR RECEIVER, 4.8" 4 PRONG BRAKE, FULL STOCK, AND SUO LOWER. Mine also has a match PSG-1 trigger pack. Not cheap ($1600) but carries a 5 year (I think) warranty and the Vector quality is a step above a regular PTR and meets/exceeds true HK standards. Chuck Malta will built you just about anything and make it Jersey legal: (305) 923-6560 I do not work for him but feel it's worth mentioning him and his company as I have owned several of his rifles and they are excellent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DevsAdvocate 112 Posted February 17, 2015 If you want a Battle rifle the PTR-91 or a FAL personally I will take a FAL over a PTR, but that's just me............ I have a SCAR-H and a FAL, the SCAR pretty much shits all over the FAL in every department... only reason anyone would buy a FAL these days is because they can't afford the SCAR. NJ Legal SCAR-H Album FN FAL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carcano 14 Posted February 17, 2015 I have a SCAR-H and a FAL, the SCAR pretty much shits all over the FAL in every department... only reason anyone would buy a FAL these days is because they can't afford the SCAR. NJ Legal SCAR-H Album FN FAL The FN-FAL is superior to the shit box SCAR (yes, I said it!). The SCAR is plastic with AR features, the FAL is a TANK and has served over 90 nations since production began in 1954. Low maintenance and easy break down of parts, reliable in all conditions you might encounter (snow, mud, sand, dirt) and most original Belgian FAL's I have shot were extremely accurate (comparable to my HK G3 clones). Also those FAL rifles are still going strong with the exception of big corporations and Government contracts forcing the FAL's to be retired, UN still carries G3's and FALs and the FAL is still in use by over 40 countries as a primary battle rifle or backup (reserve) battle rifle. I haven't toyed with a clone (DSA has mixed reviews) but if I had the money and it wasn't banned by name I would buy a Belgian FN produced FAL in a heart beat. Magazines and full auto are the major draw backs on the FAL, you have inch and metric magazines/receivers/parts that will not interchange. Full auto is worthless (not many registered pre-86 FALs on the registry, so I've been told) so not really a concern unless you have $30K-$35K burning a hole in your pocket. I shot one on FA and did a few magazines, I couldn't control it or hit anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RUTGERS95 889 Posted February 17, 2015 I have a SCAR-H and a FAL, the SCAR pretty much shits all over the FAL in every department... only reason anyone would buy a FAL these days is because they can't afford the SCAR. NJ Legal SCAR-H Album FN FAL I can't believe you said this and actually believe it...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carcano 14 Posted February 17, 2015 I can't believe you said this and actually believe it...... The SCAR is a piece of plastic shit, it's disposable. I can't tell you how many FAL's and G3's I've seen which had pitting, rust and corrosion all over them in a former commonwealth country yet they still function flawlessly after 40+ years. The FAL has seen it all, peace time and war time. they have seen snow, mud, dirt, sand, being dropped/thrown from transport vehicles/stomped on, exposure to harsh corrosive salt air, yet they keep on going. The SCAR will NEVER EVER survive the above over a 40+ year life span, no way. The SCAR has SLIGHTLY less felt recoil and is less heavy, the FAL has more recoil and weighs more (all steel construction) but has a longer service life, easy to maintain, accurate and battle proven. And the FAL looks like your neighbor's hot 18 year old daughter in a bikini,the SCAR looks like your neighbor's wife.... A G3 or FAL clone will blow that plastic toy SCAR out of the water. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carcano 14 Posted February 17, 2015 The SCAR....weekend warrior / arm chair commando approved: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted February 17, 2015 Do a barrel swap on a SCAR and an FAL and get back to me which was easier. I actually contest the statement the FAL is easier to brake down. In MY opinion the ergos of the FAL are terrible. Forget about mounting optics. Its a band aid and duct tape fest. Having owned both, without any hesitation I would take the SCAR over the FAL. I would take the FAL over a G3. I would take a KAC SR25EMC or later over all of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carcano 14 Posted February 17, 2015 Do a barrel swap on a SCAR and an FAL and get back to me which was easier. I actually contest the statement the FAL is easier to brake down. In MY opinion the ergos of the FAL are terrible. Forget about mounting optics. Its a band aid and duct tape fest. Having owned both, without any hesitation I would take the SCAR over the FAL. I would take the FAL over a G3. I would take a KAC SR25EMC or later over all of them. How many people buying a FAL will be doing regular barrel swaps? really? FALs I've seen had both threaded and pinned barrels, if you are building one up yourself on a DSA receiver this will be problematic if you have never done it before but otherwise it is a straight forward process. You would take the FAL over the G3? I would take the G3 OVER the FAL if I could only have one. G3 mounting optics with the claw mount is a pinch, I can get sub moa 300 yards with mine using the German issue scope and mount (match ammo, of course). G3 requires NO tools to take down, all push pins and can strip a G3 in under a minute with practice (that's front hand guard, remove butt stock, drop trigger housing/pack, drop bolt). G3 barrel is pressed into the trunnion, shop press to remove the barrel/replace. Charging handle is non reciprocating, the cocking tube free floats so not interference with the barrel and roller delayed operation. If the extractor brakes no worries, a true mil-spec G3 clone with have sufficient flutes (and flute depth) to still kick spent casings out and keep on working. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad G 345 Posted February 17, 2015 I have no dog in this fight as personally I think the notion of a "battle rifle" is nonsense anyway, but I'm just here to say that I'm really amused by the idea that something is better because it can be abused by third world armies or that somehow only steel guns are real guns. But hey, there is probably a group of people who thinks that the M1 is still the finest battle implement ever devised, as if time has never marched on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad G 345 Posted February 17, 2015 The SCAR....weekend warrior / arm chair commando approved: For shits and giggle I searched that image on the internets and found out who the dude is: http://archive.airforcetimes.com/article/20120413/NEWS/204130301/Special-tactics-officer-receives-AF-Cross http://www.blackfive.net/main/2012/04/usaf-captain-barry-f-crawford-jr-someone-you-should-know.html https://4gwar.wordpress.com/tag/capt-barry-f-crawford-jr/ Arm chair commando indeed, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carcano 14 Posted February 17, 2015 I have no dog in this fight as personally I think the notion of a "battle rifle" is nonsense anyway, but I'm just here to say that I'm really amused by the idea that something is better because it can be abused by third world armies or that somehow only steel guns are real guns. But hey, there is probably a group of people who thinks that the M1 is still the finest battle implement ever devised, as if time has never marched on. "third world armies"... Only a small percentage of current FAL users would be considered "third world countries", in 1982 when the UK tried to recapture the Falklands they were armed with FN FAL rifles, semi-automatic only. The Argentinians were issued FN FAL rifles, selective fire variations and both went head to head. Special Air Service (22nd Reg.) and Special Boat Service carried a mixture of FAl, G3 and HK-33 rifles, SBS also had MC51 carbines (a highly modified and shortened G3) made by royal ordnance... Argentina and UK are FAR from third world countries, people need to get outside the US more often and see that not every "third world" country is truly "third world" but that's the average American mentality (unfortunately). US troops abuse issued weapons, too. Don't believe it? look at how many FUBAR guns get sent to depots from abuse, how about US troops using barrels on M16 variants to pry crates and brake pallet banding?. We had only had poly based firearms for for what, thirty some years now? we know steel holds up to the test of time. HK developed the first poly handgun despite what Glock and Sig lovers sing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DevsAdvocate 112 Posted February 17, 2015 The FN-FAL is superior to the shit box SCAR (yes, I said it!). The SCAR is plastic with AR features, the FAL is a TANK and has served over 90 nations since production began in 1954. Low maintenance and easy break down of parts, reliable in all conditions you might encounter (snow, mud, sand, dirt) and most original Belgian FAL's I have shot were extremely accurate (comparable to my HK G3 clones). Also those FAL rifles are still going strong with the exception of big corporations and Government contracts forcing the FAL's to be retired, UN still carries G3's and FALs and the FAL is still in use by over 40 countries as a primary battle rifle or backup (reserve) battle rifle. I haven't toyed with a clone (DSA has mixed reviews) but if I had the money and it wasn't banned by name I would buy a Belgian FN produced FAL in a heart beat. Magazines and full auto are the major draw backs on the FAL, you have inch and metric magazines/receivers/parts that will not interchange. Full auto is worthless (not many registered pre-86 FALs on the registry, so I've been told) so not really a concern unless you have $30K-$35K burning a hole in your pocket. I shot one on FA and did a few magazines, I couldn't control it or hit anything. - 90 nations? Irrelevant. - My SCAR is far easier to detail strip and break down than my FAL - Off the bench, the SCAR is a bit more accurate than the FAL, but marginally so - FALs going "strong"? I guess. Even the best made guns wear out though. - Full auto is irrelevant to our discussion, but the SCAR wins there from most reviews I've seen - Magazine, points to the SCAR, I can buy them far more easily than proper FAL mags - Semi-auto recoil... SCAR wins marginally... but that also may be due to the PWS brakes. - Ergos... SCAR wins. FAL is best of the "old school" though Where the SCAR leaves the FAL in the dust: - Modularity, plenty of integrated rail space and the ability to swap components with ease. Including removal of the barrel. - Better trigger... I had to upgrade my FAL to an Eagle Arms trigger to make it worthwhile, even then, it pales to my SCAR with a Giessele - Lighter weight... ounces = pounds, pounds = pain. - Ambi push bottom mag release. The FAL latch is problematic, especially with out-of-spec mags. Honestly, the biggest issues with the FAL is that it's pretty much no longer supported. Magazines aren't easy to come by anymore, and few people make new accessories for it. DS Arms is pretty much your best bet for most FAL related items. The biggest thing you forget is this: FNH built the FAL (the best 308 BR at the time), they also built the SCAR. I reckon they know what they're doing in this department. Don't get me wrong, but the SCAR is a superior platform ergo wise, weight wise, and simplicity. If you're gonna lay out the cash for a .308 "battle rifle", it's the best money can buy. I love them both though, but push comes to shove, I'd sell the FAL before I sell the SCAR. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carcano 14 Posted February 17, 2015 For shits and giggle I searched that image on the internets and found out who the dude is: Arm chair commando indeed, right? People play weekend warrior / arm chair commando all the time and from my experience it's the "hey I want a SCAR" or "hey I want a pistol AR upper" type. I've seen idiots sporting SCAR's and M4 clones in tactical gear at the range who have no Military/Police affiliation...just arm chair "hey let's play soldier" weekend commandos. The person in that image is supposedly an Air Force STO so it was issued to him and paid for with big Government budgets and endless funds, the FAL and G3 might cost less but have stood the test of time. Want a 308 battle rifle that will work and is proven? Get a G3 or FAL. Not good enough? look into a nice M1A. All three of those are proven systems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites