ANJRPC/Nappen warning impending law changes

[siderman 1,137]

I agree.  The statute is clear on its face, has been held by two appellate courts to prohibit extra forms and information so I fail to see how the NJSP can propose and adopt a regulation inconsisent with the plain language of the statute. 

When the law doesnt work in your favor (LE) get it changed so it does. When it doesnt work in our favor, get arrested.

[tmpnj 0]

Emailed.  I'll be sending a physical copy tomorrow.

[Newtonian 453]

Where will Nappen and Bach be when our new governor is elected, when the democratic legislature proposes mag bans of 6 rounds, mandates smart guns, bans every caliber above .22 pellets?

 

They'll still be collecting huge fees. 

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Just an FYI:  NJ2AS is urging the governor and Col Fuentes to use the administrative code update to eliminate "justifiable need" and make "self defense" or "for all lawful purposes" as reason enough for CCW permits.  I would urge everyone to write to them to request that.

 

Why do all changes in the AC have to work against us? 

[jackandjill 683]

Just an FYI: NJ2AS is urging the governor and Col Fuentes to use the administrative code update to eliminate "justifiable need" and make "self defense" or "for all lawful purposes" as reason enough for CCW permits. I would urge everyone to write to them to request that.

 

Why do all changes in the AC have to work against us?

Done. Can NJ2AS put together a well thought out letter together for others to copy / paste ? We have to include Military Members, Women and Minorities lawful NEED to protect themselves and their families including children.

[ogfarmer 138]

they did post and emailed something check your emails if your a member

[tmpnj 0]

Done. Can NJ2AS put together a well thought out letter together for others to copy / paste ? We have to include Military Members, Women and Minorities lawful NEED to protect themselves and their families including children.

 

Its on their facebook page 3rd post down

[mipafox 438]

 

Just an FYI:  NJ2AS is urging the governor and Col Fuentes to use the administrative code update to eliminate "justifiable need" and make "self defense" or "for all lawful purposes" as reason enough for CCW permits.  I would urge everyone to write to them to request that.

 

Why do all changes in the AC have to work against us? 

 

 

Get external media attention, including RNC and NRA.

 

Send the governor links to the articles you get generated. Remember, only 3 states don't let their citizens carry, and he can fix it for Jersey.

[Newtonian 453]

Just an FYI:  NJ2AS is urging the governor and Col Fuentes to use the administrative code update to eliminate "justifiable need" and make "self defense" or "for all lawful purposes" as reason enough for CCW permits.  I would urge everyone to write to them to request that.

 

Why do all changes in the AC have to work against us? 

They're proposing long gun registration, allowing PDs to make up their own requirements for purchase permits and change of address re-issues of purchase cards, new record-keeping requirements for FFLs, and a bunch of other goodies. It seems that Fuentes et al. would not go to these lengths without assurance that his proposed changes would indeed take place.

 

The additional pre-purchase documentation requirements will, in many heavily democrat towns, have the effect of shutting down handgun purchases completely. The purchase equivalent of the state's bogus "may issue" carry law. Forget heavily democrat towns, it will happen nearly everywhere. Proof is that even up here in Sussex county judges will not issue carry permits unless they're shamed and/or forced into it. You'd think a conservative/libertarian, which all the big shots up here claim to be, would occasionally go out on a limb and deem fear of one's shadow as sufficient proof of "need."

 

Meanwhile our second amendment organizations, layman dreamers, and fellow windmill tilters counter by asking for a relaxation of travel laws and elimination of "need" requirements. To use a popular word that probably comes from some TV show, "Really?"

 

It's as if ISIS is about to behead you and you bravely stand up and demand they pay your family $10 million for kidnapping and killing you. 

 

Again, I can't say I understand this process at any level. When Congress gives EPA dominion over all things environmental it essentially asks the agency to write the regulations, which have the force of law. Were Congress to include in that authorization specific language exempting rivers of less than 5 miles in length, or ponds of less than two acres, I don't see how EPA can then legally declare those stipulations null and void. Same here. The legislature says we can't stop for a burger, even at a drive through, but Fuentes may then over-ride that provision, and will do so but only if we send him enough emails? I don't get it. This is not representative government, it's a patchwork of interconnected fiefdoms ruling over a clueless electorate.

 

By the time NJ gun owners realize that voting is the only way to improve our lot it will be too late. Nearly every presidential candidate and arguably every single one with a chinaman's chance of winning favors some sort of amnesty for illegal aliens. Within a few years the "new normal" will be allowing them to vote or fast-tracking them to citizenship. Look at how quickly gay marriage went from the third rail of Democrat politics to mainstream. 

 

Demographics represent the final nail in the coffin of gun rights in this state. But I have news for those of you snarking and tut-tutting from the outer provinces: As sure as God made little apples you're next. The talk about ingrained "gun culture" is nonsense. Look around next summer at who's cutting the lawns in your legislative district, at the only people walking downtown after dark. Then think if an extra 5,000 or 10,000 democrat votes would change things. 

 

Democracy: Two wolves and a lamb voting on the dinner menu.

[1LtCAP 4,262]

i still don't understand how exactly the njspd is allowed to write what essentially amounts to law. there is something inherently wrong with that, and it should be challenged now, before any more are made/written.

[Tunaman 548]

It's all about retaliation.  Bunch of bullshit.

[diamondd817 826]

So did anyone get a response? I didn't.

[jrfly3006 42]

Nothing yet

[mipafox 438]

So did anyone get a response? I didn't.

It doesn't work like that. They will wait until they have all the comments and then generate responses to ones they consider relevant. The comments and responses will be released as a single document. It is also possible (I don't know) that they might file the document and not release a courtesy copy to the public, meaning you would have to go in person and pay for a copy if you don't belong to one of the legal publications. Don't get mad at me, I'm not saying that will happen. I don't know. The responses to comments for regulations I have followed from NJ always had a "courtesy copy" published online with a warning that the actual document prevails.

[Newtonian 453]

Our comrades have done quite a bit trying to convince various NJ officials that our gun laws are unreasonable. I've seen the videos of gun guys and gals schooling legislators on the finer points of theology and constitutional law. Those efforts were pretty much fruitless wouldn't you say? "They know we're here and we mean it!" They also know where the perpetrators of the next 250 gun murders live. Big deal.

 

As for our governor, there is no way to tell if his vetos over the last year or so were a result of our efforts, his desire to maintain a modest degree of conservative cred, or if he actually studied the issue and voted with his head. I don't recall him saying. 

 

But as you know Christy will leave office in 2018 and his likely successor will be a democrat or another RINO. What are we going to do about that, folks? We are now like the proverbial Dutchman plugging leaks with his fingers, or in this case swatting away affronts to our liberties with email campaigns. Yesterday it was 50 call, then mag limits, today it's long gun registration, on and on. Send emails or I will shoot this dog!!

 

Persuasion only works with individuals who can be persuaded. As long as Weinberg and Sweeney don't get too many from their constituents -- one's can't read and the other's are hopelessly anti-gun -- you might as well send them a fruit basket.

 

So I return to my question of what to do about the 2017 gubernatorial election and the upcoming legislative elections? Because folks in January 2018 we are f****d.

 

[fatty 241]

email sent

[TR20 47]

I sent email's on two different days. Messages were sent from Outlook with a return receipt request imbedded. 

 

I know they got the email (successful delivery) but I did not get a return receipt.  Either they have their inbox defaulted to "never send receipt" or they consciously made the choice to click "do not send receipt".  This assumes of course they are not running some obscure email program that does not display receipt information.

[voyager9 3,434]

I sent email's on two different days. Messages were sent from Outlook with a return receipt request imbedded.

 

I know they got the email (successful delivery) but I did not get a return receipt. Either they have their inbox defaulted to "never send receipt" or they consciously made the choice to click "do not send receipt". This assumes of course they are not running some obscure email program that does not display receipt information.

Most places worth their salt will have receive, and read receipts disabled outside the organization

[fumanchu182 23]

Mine was delivered, not that it mattered because NJSP will do whatever they want.

 

 

 

[Newtonian 453]

You all have your heads in the sand. That's a very polite way of saying "stuffed into certain nether orifices."

 

Go ahead and do what NJ2AS and NJARPC tell you to do. They've been so helpful, so it's obvious they know best. They're probably going after the flintlock guy on jury nullification (their only legal defense, BTW -- he's guilty as hell). That leaves you and me where??? Ludicrous. 

 

Email the governor 100x. Email the state AG. He loves you, like Jesus! Demand your constitutional rights! Demand that legislators commit to their constitutional oaths! Yeah!

 

WTF.

 

Those NJ 2nd Amendment organizations have done so well for us, what do you think?

 

Don't you realize they are in business mostly because of their utter failure? Do you think Rush Limbaugh cried into his pillow when Bush lost to Clinton in '92? Believe me he opened several bottles of Dom Perignon and smoked several Cohibas that night. 

 

Wake up!

[bhunted 887]

Now you sir have a bad altitude!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[WP22 1,558]

Now you sir have a bad altitude!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Are you saying the guy is short?

[bhunted 887]

Are you saying the guy is short?

Yessir!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[n4p226r 105]

You all have your heads in the sand. That's a very polite way of saying "stuffed into certain nether orifices."

 

Go ahead and do what NJ2AS and NJARPC tell you to do. They've been so helpful, so it's obvious they know best. They're probably going after the flintlock guy on jury nullification (their only legal defense, BTW -- he's guilty as hell). That leaves you and me where??? Ludicrous.

 

Email the governor 100x. Email the state AG. He loves you, like Jesus! Demand your constitutional rights! Demand that legislators commit to their constitutional oaths! Yeah!

 

WTF.

 

Those NJ 2nd Amendment organizations have done so well for us, what do you think?

 

Don't you realize they are in business mostly because of their utter failure? Do you think Rush Limbaugh cried into his pillow when Bush lost to Clinton in '92? Believe me he opened several bottles of Dom Perignon and smoked several Cohibas that night.

 

Wake up!

.

 

You are right. They are all in it for the money. We should just shut up and take it without any lube. We know it's coming anyways right?

[Newtonian 453]

.

 

You are right. They are all in it for the money. We should just shut up and take it without any lube. We know it's coming anyways right?

Buddy we've already had it up the ass. The "without the lube" part is coming in January 2018. Keep emailing and don't forget to invest in Crisco, a division of UpTheAss Food Corp.

[Princetonian58 53]

"If, during the course of the issuing agencies investigation, it becomes necessary to acquire additional information on the applicant, the issuing agency may request the additional information necessary to facilitate a complete and thorough investigation to determine if the applicant is subjected to any disabilities established in N.J.S.A. 2C:58-3.c and this subchapter."

 

As I read this section, the language should restrict a municipality's police department from blanketly adding new forms but instead limit the municipality to requesting additional information when something shows up "in the course of the issuing agencies investigation."    For example, an ancient arrest record that shows up on the NJSP criminal background search may require the applicant to explain the circumstances.  The Appellate Division has held this practice to be acceptable in the Jersey City case I believe Nappen handled.

 

Unfortunately, however, the preamble's explanation shows that the NJSP, despite the language and the appellate court's limiting language, clearly intend to use this new section as a vehicle to allow towns to demand extra information and forms at the outset of an investigation rather thant "during the course of the issuing agencies investigation."

 

Hopefully this reg will not be adopted or a new suit by the ANJRPC to declare it invalid seems inevitable. 

[jackandjill 683]

However, the Division believes that any negative economic impact on the firearms industry resulting from implementation of the proposed amendments and new rules is more than offset by greater accountability and integrity within the industry and an overall positive impact on public welfare and safety.

----------------

Translation: Yeah, we know this may put many already struggling FFLs out of business,  but its good for public welfare and safety.

[n4p226r 105]

Buddy we've already had it up the ass. The "without the lube" part is coming in January 2018. Keep emailing and don't forget to invest in Crisco, a division of UpTheAss Food Corp.

So what is your suggestion?

[Newtonian 453]

So what is your suggestion?

Targeting vulnerable anti-gun NJ legislators through bring-out-the-vote tactics is the most principled way to go about this. It will help with gun rights but it also slow down all the other B.S. we face in this state. I've written about this a dozen times, even outlined the numbers and who to target.

 

Almost nobody on these forums -- and certainly not NRA, NJ2AS, or NJARPC -- is interested in the slightest. They prefer to wait for magic -- judicial and legislative actions from afar, or one-off tactics like jury nullification. It's kind of pathetic. But it keeps them in business and helps them feel important when legislative/regulatory issues arise, which is often. "EMAIL GOVERNOR CHRISTIE!!!"

 

A national legislative miracle, like the proposed carry permit reciprocity law, will only help with guns but as long as a Democrat is in the white house it will have to pass with a veto-proof majority, which is 67 senators. There is also the horrific possibility that the law could be amended to exclude non-resident permits, e.g. Utah. That would be the ultimate insult. Imagine someone from PA armed to the teeth walking through Newark with impunity, but we still face 5-10 years of ass-pounding for stopping for food. I believe this version of the law is highly possible. 

[1LtCAP 4,262]

Targeting vulnerable anti-gun NJ legislators through bring-out-the-vote tactics is the most principled way to go about this. It will help with gun rights but it also slow down all the other B.S. we face in this state. I've written about this a dozen times, even outlined the numbers and who to target.

 

Almost nobody on these forums -- and certainly not NRA, NJ2AS, or NJARPC -- is interested in the slightest. They prefer to wait for magic

THIS is why i never renewed nj2as. that, and the constant bickering among the "leaders". it never fucking stops with them. so far, haven't renewed anjrcp, and am only an nra member for membership to a range i like that's very close to home.