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mikka1

Yet another not-so-smart question on mag legalities...

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Hi, folks,

I was just wondering if someone can comment on another stupid idea that recently came to my mind.

So, here is the scenario:

You and your cousin, both living in NJ, decide to visit relatives in Pittsburgh / Poconos / Ohio / Florida etc. together with families. You drive in two different vehicles, but try to start your journey at the same time pretty much driving one after the other, making stops on the same gas stations, in the same motels etc.
On your way back you stop in Cabela's (Bass Pro / other gun store) and see a great sale of all times - let's say, Magpul AR 30-rounder mags for $5 each. Before even realizing all legality matters, you go ahead and buy 20 mags, 10 mags for each of you.

And then you do the following - you disassemble all 20 mags and split their parts in the following way:
- Bag #1 - mag bodies, followers and maybe springs
- Bag #2 - baseplates and plate inserts

You put Bag#1 in your trunk and your cousin puts Bag#2 in his and you drive home to NJ (you live in one place, he lives in the other)

Right after you come home you take your mag bodies, measure where exactly you need to stop the follower to hold no more than 15 rounds and rivet mag bodies with followers already in place, put plenty of epoxy around rivets etc. etc. (Doesn't really matter what exactly you do, let's say you block the bodies using an _acceptable_ method)

A week later you visit your cousin with a full bag of blocked mag bodies, you put his parts in and have 20 AR mags blocked to hold 15 rounds each. You are both happy because you got enough 15rders for cheap with little efforts.

Variation of scenario - you drive alone, you take mags apart and send baseplates and inserts to your address by mail the slowest way possible so that by the time it comes to you, you already have all bodies blocked.

***

So, I don't see this scenario as worth the efforts for 1-2 mag, but if you can get hold of plenty of standard capacity 30-rders for cheap, that might be a dealbreaker. I am also not really into discussing if the mods you do are "permanent enough" - this has been discussed many times before and some of us have different views on it. My question is really the following - in such a scenario, when you essentially transport "mag parts", and NOT magazines altogether, are you violating any of NJ laws?

 

IANAL, but I would say "no", as you never take possession of the full-capacity magazine according to its definition, as parts you have are not capable of "continuously and reliably feeding rounds blah-blah-blah". By the time you assemble all parts into a working mag it is already limited to allowed capacity. Things can in theory go tricky if you have a couple of 10-rd Magpul mags at home - this way you have all the parts in possession that CAN be readily assembled into 30rd mag.

 

Thoughts?

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If the SHTF, doesnt it all come down to demonstrating that you had access and/or control over parts (even at a different places) that CAN be assembled into forbidden 30 Mag ?

Especially, if they can prove that you paid for portion of the original purchase and/or there exists an agreement to the part ownership to the total lot ?

 

 

Depending on complexity of the job, why not rent a cheap hotel in PA and do the work there. It might be worth the volume.

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I once visited a big cigar store in Belize that had tables stocked with new cigar bands for their American customers. You could buy your Cuban cigars and re-band them as anything-but-Cuban before leaving for home.

 

Maybe Cabelas needs to set up some tables and provide drills, rivets, and epoxy for customer use!

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If the SHTF, doesnt it all come down to demonstrating that you had access and/or control over parts (even at a different places) that CAN be assembled into forbidden 30 Mag ?

Especially, if they can prove that you paid for portion of the original purchase and/or there exists an agreement to the part ownership to the total lot ?

 

 

Depending on complexity of the job, why not rent a cheap hotel in PA and do the work there. It might be worth the volume.

 

Fair point, but then it is even more a stretch than my initial idea, at least in my view. If I have 15rd Glock 19 mag and my cousin has 10rd Glock 26 mags with baseplate extension to hold +2 rounds, then one could argue I have "access" to parts that can be assembled into a mag holding more than 15 rounds. Hell I can just go to the nearest LGS and buy such a plate ("for Glock 26") not even explaining anything to anyone.

 

Hotel point is fine, if you have relatives in mentioned Pittsburgh / Ohio with nice bench in a garage, you can pretty much do all the work there and come back with legal mags. Nonetheless, it's a deviation from a specific legal "problem" I have in mind now :-)

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Fair point, but then it is even more a stretch than my initial idea, at least in my view. If I have 15rd Glock 19 mag and my cousin has 10rd Glock 26 mags with baseplate extension to hold +2 rounds, then one could argue I have "access" to parts that can be assembled into a mag holding more than 15 rounds. Hell I can just go to the nearest LGS and buy such a plate ("for Glock 26") not even explaining anything to anyone.

 

Hotel point is fine, if you have relatives in mentioned Pittsburgh / Ohio with nice bench in a garage, you can pretty much do all the work there and come back with legal mags. Nonetheless, it's a deviation from a specific legal "problem" I have in mind now :-)

"Access" and "Control" are slightly different things.  Yes, you may have "access" to take stuff from your cousin, but legally that would be theft (or he knowingly facilitate illegal activity). Control means, you have legal ownership and can demand - its yours regardless of where it is.

 

Merely having access is not enough, unless you took the said thing. Then they can charge you with both theft AND intent to manufacture the 30 mag illegal stuff.

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Considering you can buy cut down ones from PK90 and other companies, and blocked 15/30's from others, why even go through all the trouble to do it yourself? Sure, you could probably save a few bucks but IMO, nothing is easier than adding 20 mags to your shopping cart and seeing them at your doorstep in 4 days :)

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If the SHTF, doesnt it all come down to demonstrating that you had access and/or control over parts (even at a different places) that CAN be assembled into forbidden 30 Mag ?

Especially, if they can prove that you paid for portion of the original purchase and/or there exists an agreement to the part ownership to the total lot ?

 

 

Depending on complexity of the job, why not rent a cheap hotel in PA and do the work there. It might be worth the volume.

 

What you are talking about is constructive intent. Go look at it's success rate as a legal argument in court. AS far as I have been able to discern, constructive intent can get you a bill for legal fees, fines, or used as justification for taking your property, but it doesn't do well in getting an actual conviction. So I guess it depends on if by SHTF you mean going to jail long term or going to court and dealing with whatever jail time bail issues cause you. 

 

The law says a high capacity magazine is one capable of reliably feeding more than 15 rounds. A tube and follower is not that. What you would have is their claim of constructive intent vs. your claim of planning to remanufacture them into compliant magazines. What the cost of making that legal argument would be I can't say. It isn't free. 

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Considering you can buy cut down ones from PK90 and other companies, and blocked 15/30's from others, why even go through all the trouble to do it yourself? Sure, you could probably save a few bucks but IMO, nothing is easier than adding 20 mags to your shopping cart and seeing them at your doorstep in 4 days :)

 

Actually, quite a simple explanation - most of those who sell blocked AR mags also completely epoxy a baseplate to a mag body as it is believed (and I have absolutely no appetite to discuss or challenge this) that this is one of the few acceptable ways to make sure the mag is not reversible and thus "permanently" modified. Unfortunately it makes those mags impossible to open and clean inside. I shoot USPSA and I know how at least pistol mags can look after a long match outdoors in a bad weather. So it is basically a full stop here - I tried to buy one blocked mag from one of the vendors and in addition to the fact that it holds 14 rounds, not 15 ("to make sure it is 100% legal"), it was sealed / locked / glued probably better than my local bank's vault. A couple of shooting sessions outdoor and this mag is pretty much done and I can't do anything with it.

 

Why bother when Hexmags are $12

 

Yes, this is the biggest point now. I agree that with 15rd hexmags easily available for this price the whole situation bears little practical meaning. At the same time, there are still mags that are not that common as AR ones that in theory can be acquired the same way.

I would also remind that if I'm not mistaken, legality of Hexmags with their way of limiting the capacity to 15 rounds just by extending the bottom part of the follower has also been scrutinized heavily here... :-)

 

 

How would you get the follower past the rivet? :)

 

That was actually the reason why I mentioned placing follower, spring and body of the mag in one bag :-) The theoretical idea is that you can rivet the mag body with follower already in place. It is indeed negates my "cleaning" point at least a little, as you will not be able to remove the follower, but you will still have access from both sides of the mag body.

 

 

"Access" and "Control" are slightly different things.  Yes, you may have "access" to take stuff from your cousin, but legally that would be theft (or he knowingly facilitate illegal activity). Control means, you have legal ownership and can demand - its yours regardless of where it is.

 

Merely having access is not enough, unless you took the said thing. Then they can charge you with both theft AND intent to manufacture the 30 mag illegal stuff.

 

Noted, thanks :) Pay cash, toss receipts and packaging, disassemble mags and give baseplates and inserts as a "gift" to your cousin thus making them leave your possession (or sell them as parts for $1 each).

 

***

 

In the end of the day, I can really think of very few scenarios concerning particular AR mags (unless you somehow get a full box of them for free after some event in Nevada) that make the whole idea practical and economically reasonable, but I'm more after the reasoning part here. It's essentially good to know that there might be some stupid, yet still legal solutions to the problem apart from widely accepted and convenient ones :)

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the answer is shockingly simple... and the answer is ALWAYS the same...

 

if you have in your possession a large capacity mag you are breaking the law..

 

in the eyes of NJ a mag that simply has the potential to be a large capacity mag then it is still a large capacity mag.. this is illustrated by the opinion they released regarding mags that were blocked in a temporary way...

 

the intention of the law is the following...

 

does the mag that you have in your possession have the ability to hold more than 15 round.. does it have the potential to be loaded in a semi auto gun... will said mag feed more than 15 rounds...

if the answer is YES.. in any way.. then it is illegal..

if the answer is NO.. then it is legal..

 

and thats it.. nothing more.. nothing less..

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vlad, and what will be your interpretation of the case I mentioned in the beginning according to the law? (having mag body, mag follower and spring, but not baseplate and an insert)?

I have already mentioned, that my interpretation exactly for this definition in the law is that it does NOT violate anything, as you basically has several pieces that can't be assembled together into a "magazine capable of feeding..." without extra parts (that you do not have readily available).

 

 

>>>in the eyes of NJ a mag that simply has the potential to be a large capacity mag then it is still a large capacity mag

What is "has the potential"? A chunk of raw plastic or whatever material is used by a 3d printer probably "has a potential" to be a large cap mag :) (at least in my interpretation)

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I agree just buy these and support a forum vendor in the process. At this price ya almost can't afford not to!

 

82bd171fbb6767110068f60eada2ca5a.jpg

That's a great price! I wish Steve had them on hand the last time I went to pick up another handgun from him :)

Or, to say optimistically, I hope he will have those when I find some money to buy another gun :)

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vlad, and what will be your interpretation of the case I mentioned in the beginning according to the law? (having mag body, mag follower and spring, but not baseplate and an insert)?

I have already mentioned, that my interpretation exactly for this definition in the law is that it does NOT violate anything, as you basically has several pieces that can't be assembled together into a "magazine capable of feeding..." without extra parts (that you do not have readily available).

 

 

>>>in the eyes of NJ a mag that simply has the potential to be a large capacity mag then it is still a large capacity mag

What is "has the potential"? A chunk of raw plastic or whatever material is used by a 3d printer probably "has a potential" to be a large cap mag :) (at least in my interpretation)

 

 

IMO and likely the courts opinion.. IF you possess the sum of parts that are capable of functioning as a high cap mag and have not made any permanent modifications to make it NOT hold more than 15.. then it is still a large cap mag... with that said.. the state has stated that temporarily modding a large cap mag does not make it NOT a large cap mag.. so when the mag is made.. it IS the sum of its parts.. but at the point that the mag rolls off the assembly line.. it is a high cap mag.. so here is the tricky part... you take JUST the bodies.. and leave all the other parts in PA.. just for arguments sake.. so now you have a trashbag full of mag bodies.. in my mind.. in your mind.. it is NOT a large cap mag... because it does not even function.. now in the states mind? who knows.. it was a large cap mag when made.. the modification you made was to just disassemble it.. you do not have in your immediate possession all the parts needed.. but you also did not modify it in a permanent way? so who knows..

 

for me personally.. and I understand your question is only hypothetical.. but risk for reward does not pan out imo.. there are so many clearly legal options.. just bite the bullet.. and get the versions that are clearly legal?

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IMO and likely the courts opinion.. IF you possess the sum of parts that are capable of functioning as a high cap mag and have not made any permanent modifications to make it NOT hold more than 15.. then it is still a large cap mag... with that said.. the state has stated that temporarily modding a large cap mag does not make it NOT a large cap mag.. so when the mag is made.. it IS the sum of its parts.. but at the point that the mag rolls off the assembly line.. it is a high cap mag.. so here is the tricky part... you take JUST the bodies.. and leave all the other parts in PA.. just for arguments sake.. so now you have a trashbag full of mag bodies.. in my mind.. in your mind.. it is NOT a large cap mag... because it does not even function.. now in the states mind? who knows.. it was a large cap mag when made.. the modification you made was to just disassemble it.. you do not have in your immediate possession all the parts needed.. but you also did not modify it in a permanent way? so who knows..

 

for me personally.. and I understand your question is only hypothetical.. but risk for reward does not pan out imo.. there are so many clearly legal options.. just bite the bullet.. and get the versions that are clearly legal?

 

I kind of see the "rationale" of such a logic (and I understand why many people prefer blocked mags with permanently attached baseplate - because this way you can't easily disassemble it into a mag body). But then I immediately have another consideration - if in the eyes of a state having a bag full of 30rd mag bodies is equal to having fully-functional mags, then what about the definition of a magazine? I mean, why having mag body is considered a mag if it does not function? My Orbit chewing gum can is capable of holding probably 50 9mm rounds and much more 22lrs. It does not work&feed rounds, but neither does the mag body.

 

And another point - if we assume that I trash mag bodies right in front of the store, but take springs, followers and baseplates - stretching this logic I might be also considered having a restricted mag, as I have SOME PARTS that were initially designed to be used for a large capacity mag and I have not modified them in any way, just disassembled the mag...

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IMO and likely the courts opinion.. IF you possess the sum of parts that are capable of functioning as a high cap mag and have not made any permanent modifications to make it NOT hold more than 15.. then it is still a large cap mag... with that said.. the state has stated that temporarily modding a large cap mag does not make it NOT a large cap mag.. so when the mag is made.. it IS the sum of its parts.. but at the point that the mag rolls off the assembly line.. it is a high cap mag.. so here is the tricky part... you take JUST the bodies.. and leave all the other parts in PA.. just for arguments sake.. so now you have a trashbag full of mag bodies.. in my mind.. in your mind.. it is NOT a large cap mag... because it does not even function.. now in the states mind? who knows.. it was a large cap mag when made.. the modification you made was to just disassemble it.. you do not have in your immediate possession all the parts needed.. but you also did not modify it in a permanent way? so who knows..

 

for me personally.. and I understand your question is only hypothetical.. but risk for reward does not pan out imo.. there are so many clearly legal options.. just bite the bullet.. and get the versions that are clearly legal?

If you go with that argument then one could also argue that 15 round magazines are illegal because with many of them you can just take the removable base plate off and add readily available +1 or +2 base pads.  Thus, you had best epoxy or weld the base pad on any magazine that can hold 14 rounds or more :)

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If you go with that argument then one could also argue that 15 round magazines are illegal because with many of them you can just take the removable base plate off and add readily available +1 or +2 base pads.  Thus, you had best epoxy or weld the base pad on any magazine that can hold 14 rounds or more :)

 

 

they did not start as a large cap mag...

 

It is important to understand that this letter is to DEALERS and this letter is also just that.. a letter.. not a law.. but the reason I reference it so much is because it clearly illustrates the states intent.. and this is the intent.. they want you to be able to have magazines... but they do not want what they consider large capacity mags to be in the state... they would prefer them just not be here at all.. in any way.. they do however say if a dealer takes a large cap mag and modifies it in a permanent way.. then it can no longer be a large cap mag.. a rivet.. a pin.. a block.. is not permanent... technically disassemble is not permanent..  would they prosecute you for a case of 30 round mag bodies? eh.. probably not.. would they win if they did? even less likely..  but would it bother them? likely... could the wrong town at the wrong time try to make a big deal about it? maybe.. that is more my point.. and along your lines of mag extensions.. I would not own a +2 base plate while also owning a 15 round mag it attaches to..

 

http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.anjrpc.org/resource/resmgr/spletter.pdf

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they did not start as a large cap mag...

 

It is important to understand that this letter is to DEALERS and this letter is also just that.. a letter.. not a law.. but the reason I reference it so much is because it clearly illustrates the states intent.. and this is the intent.. they want you to be able to have magazines... but they do not want what they consider large capacity mags to be in the state... they would prefer them just not be here at all.. in any way.. they do however say if a dealer takes a large cap mag and modifies it in a permanent way.. then it can no longer be a large cap mag.. a rivet.. a pin.. a block.. is not permanent... technically disassemble is not permanent..  would they prosecute you for a case of 30 round mag bodies? eh.. probably not.. would they win if they did? even less likely..  but would it bother them? likely... could the wrong town at the wrong time try to make a big deal about it? maybe.. that is more my point.. and along your lines of mag extensions.. I would not own a +2 base plate while also owning a 15 round mag it attaches to..

 

http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.anjrpc.org/resource/resmgr/spletter.pdf

 

We still haven't determined what to consider a "part" that has the potential of being "treated" as a mag. So far we focused on the mag body as it is probably the most logically and intuitively solid, but in essence Magpul mags have at least 3 more parts that are essential for mag functioning (spring, follower, baseplate). You remove any of these parts and the mag will not work.

That said, for the simplicity, if I am found in a possession of a bag of long and scary springs, followers and black baseplates, but not mag bodies, this can also be stretched to having large capacity mags, because the parts I have were initially designed to be in a large capacity mag... And to substantiate this point I can give you an example that I posted here a couple of times - Mecgar limits capacity of some of its mags by using a half-inch or so depressed part of the spring near the baseplate. Putting the discussion of if it is permanent or not aside, we have the situation when the capacity of this particular mag is determined NOT by its body, NOT by its follower or by its baseplate, but ONLY by its spring. You swap the spring with the one without the depressed base and you immediately get a 17rd mag. That said, possession of mag springs initially designed to be used in large cap mags should also be considered a crime :-)

 

The letter itself leaves more questions, than answers, at least with me. Okay, I got that "temporary blocks" are not an acceptable modification, and "permanent alterations" are. But at this point we have no real clue what to consider permanent (at it is proven by multiple lengthy discussions here on this board). There is also a strange white spot regarding permanency of modifications made by a manufacturer of a said mag. The letter only (at least to my understanding) puts the liability on the dealer, who makes some alterations of the mag, and if he fails to make them "permanent", a dealer can be went after for disposing illegal mags. BUT, if you are a gun manufacturer, you can essentially say, that this mag is 10rd, place a piece of paper on it saying so, put one small pin inside and you seem to be good. An excellent example here are factory blocked 10/25 mags for M&P15-22. They have full 25rd body and the only alteration required to revert it to 25rd capacity is a pin that is just inserted inside and not even glued. On average it takes around 20-30 seconds to modify this mag to hold 25 rounds with pretty much bare hands (ok, multitool will be more than enough). Yet those mags are easily sold by any gun stores in NJ, NY, MD and other restrictive states...

 

I guess I just need to stop looking for any logic and give it up, LOL :-)

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We still haven't determined what to consider a "part" that has the potential of being "treated" as a mag. So far we focused on the mag body as it is probably the most logically and intuitively solid, but in essence Magpul mags have at least 3 more parts that are essential for mag functioning (spring, follower, baseplate). You remove any of these parts and the mag will not work.

That said, for the simplicity, if I am found in a possession of a bag of long and scary springs, followers and black baseplates, but not mag bodies, this can also be stretched to having large capacity mags, because the parts I have were initially designed to be in a large capacity mag... And to substantiate this point I can give you an example that I posted here a couple of times - Mecgar limits capacity of some of its mags by using a half-inch or so depressed part of the spring near the baseplate. Putting the discussion of if it is permanent or not aside, we have the situation when the capacity of this particular mag is determined NOT by its body, NOT by its follower or by its baseplate, but ONLY by its spring. You swap the spring with the one without the depressed base and you immediately get a 17rd mag. That said, possession of mag springs initially designed to be used in large cap mags should also be considered a crime :-)

 

The letter itself leaves more questions, than answers, at least with me. Okay, I got that "temporary blocks" are not an acceptable modification, and "permanent alterations" are. But at this point we have no real clue what to consider permanent (at it is proven by multiple lengthy discussions here on this board). There is also a strange white spot regarding permanency of modifications made by a manufacturer of a said mag. The letter only (at least to my understanding) puts the liability on the dealer, who makes some alterations of the mag, and if he fails to make them "permanent", a dealer can be went after for disposing illegal mags. BUT, if you are a gun manufacturer, you can essentially say, that this mag is 10rd, place a piece of paper on it saying so, put one small pin inside and you seem to be good. An excellent example here are factory blocked 10/25 mags for M&P15-22. They have full 25rd body and the only alteration required to revert it to 25rd capacity is a pin that is just inserted inside and not even glued. On average it takes around 20-30 seconds to modify this mag to hold 25 rounds with pretty much bare hands (ok, multitool will be more than enough). Yet those mags are easily sold by any gun stores in NJ, NY, MD and other restrictive states...

 

I guess I just need to stop looking for any logic and give it up, LOL :-)

 

 

the reason the letter is important is it illustrates intention.. for me in NJ I was never really in fear of going to jail over evil black rifles.. or questionable mags.. of brakes that might be flash hiders.. I was afraid of the legal challenge to prove my innocence.. so in turn I would follow the path of being well within compliance as best I could while still enjoying firearms.. if I could buy a mag that might be questionable.. or one that was definitely not questionable.. I would time and time again take the path of not questionable.. because of risk VS reward..

 

as to what is "permanent" the answer is simple... its permanent.. it means that you have done something to the mag that is NOT reversible.. period.. it doesn't mean "easily" reversible.. it doesn't mean "only reversible with a tool".. it simply means what it says.. PERMANENT...

 

sometimes people make the argument that they could cut this or weld that.. so nothing is permanent.. and that is IMO not relevant because at that point you are no longer dealing with the original finished product in hand...

 

the ultimate legal question is this..

does the mag in your hand.. that has been modified to 15.. have the ability to have the mod reversed.. is there a pin you can remove.. is there epoxy you could scrape off? is there a block you could pull out? that in my mind at least is the legal test.. 

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and with all due respect.. I dont think you are looking for logic.. as the logic is simple.. you are looking for a work around..

 

the logic is this..

 

NJ does not want you to have large cap mags.. PERIOD.. they allow large caps to be permanently modified into NJ compliant mags because at that point if done right they do not have concern of it being turned back into a large capacity mag at a later time.. that is the goal.. and that is the logic behind it..

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(...)

 

the ultimate legal question is this..

does the mag in your hand.. that has been modified to 15.. have the ability to have the mod reversed.. is there a pin you can remove.. is there epoxy you could scrape off? is there a block you could pull out? that in my mind at least is the legal test.. 

 

(...)

 

NJ does not want you to have large cap mags.. PERIOD.. they allow large caps to be permanently modified into NJ compliant mags because at that point if done right they do not have concern of it being turned back into a large capacity mag at a later time.. that is the goal.. and that is the logic behind it..

 

vlad, so how can we have mentioned above 15-22 mags blocked to hold 10 rds in such a fashion, that is EASILY reversible? Or are there basically TWO sets of standards - one for manufacturers that can basically write on a mag package "I hereby swear/affirm that this mag is permanently altered to hold no more than 10 rounds" and just insert a small and easily removable pin and at the same time have discussions about how mags should be modified permanently by end users?

 

And yes, I am from the school of thought that almost any modification can be reversed chemically / mechanically, using proper tools / techniques and after spending countless hours on doing so (practicality aside). And in my view this way we are absolutely NOT talking about dealing with the "other" thing, this is the very same product. So far I have only seen a handful of mags that we _designed_ to hold, let's say, 10 rounds, and they were done in a way that modification is almost impossible with any reasonable means (mostly these were mags that were initially designed with a body that is physically capable of holding certain amount of rounds due to its dimension).

 

And we really deviated from my original question as I have sworn to myself from the very beginning that I would *not* get into a discussion around permanent vs temporary modification, LOL :-) So,

1) I am driving through Newark with a bag of 30rd mag bodies and I am pulled over and searched...

2) I am driving through Newark with a bag of springs from 30rd mags, baseplates and followers and I am pulled over and searched...

3) I am driving through Newark with a bag full of assembled 30rd mags ready to be loaded, I am pulled over and searched...

I more or less can guess what will happen in #3. Will anything be different in #1 and #2 and why?

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vlad, so how can we have mentioned above 15-22 mags blocked to hold 10 rds in such a fashion, that is EASILY reversible? Or are there basically TWO sets of standards - one for manufacturers that can basically write on a mag package "I hereby swear/affirm that this mag is permanently altered to hold no more than 10 rounds" and just insert a small and easily removable pin and at the same time have discussions about how mags should be modified permanently by end users?

 

And yes, I am from the school of thought that almost any modification can be reversed chemically / mechanically, using proper tools / techniques and after spending countless hours on doing so (practicality aside). And in my view this way we are absolutely NOT talking about dealing with the "other" thing, this is the very same product. So far I have only seen a handful of mags that we _designed_ to hold, let's say, 10 rounds, and they were done in a way that modification is almost impossible with any reasonable means (mostly these were mags that were initially designed with a body that is physically capable of holding certain amount of rounds due to its dimension).

 

And we really deviated from my original question as I have sworn to myself from the very beginning that I would *not* get into a discussion around permanent vs temporary modification, LOL :-) So,

1) I am driving through Newark with a bag of 30rd mag bodies and I am pulled over and searched...

2) I am driving through Newark with a bag of springs from 30rd mags, baseplates and followers and I am pulled over and searched...

3) I am driving through Newark with a bag full of assembled 30rd mags ready to be loaded, I am pulled over and searched...

I more or less can guess what will happen in #3. Will anything be different in #1 and #2 and why?

 

 

if you get stopped and searched with 30 round mag bodies bodies only.. my guess is you will find yourself in an aggravating experience since people are not normally stopped and searched for no reason.. so if you have already done something to cause that chances our.. they are going to severely question your case of 30 round mag bodies..

 

and what would happen depends on the alignment of the planets that day.. lets remember you do not have to be wrong to be charged..  would you be found GUILTY? unlikely..

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