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Polak

14" shottie NJ legal?

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Why stupid?

 

Because in my opinion shotguns are a power tool that sucks at almost everything, but does well enough at everything. Taking the stock off and putting in a pistol grip means you've just abandoned hitting anything past 10 yards with any degree of certainty. Shortening the barrel to 14" makes that issue even worse, it is probably cylinder choke as well. Once you go down that path, you've made slugs a pointless exercise because how do you aim it, and bird shot and all its uses are now gone as well, its not as if you are going to hunt to shoot clays with it. At most of you have a 4-5 round buckshot thrower, effective at bad breath distances but slow as hell to operate, aim, reload, etc. Oh, and it uses both hands where a handgun doesn't.

 

To my mind, the only to rational uses for that are door busting and looking gangsta while you knock over your local gas station.

 

But hey, that's me, I could be wrong.

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I've fired a 12ga one handed in an emergency. It's not bad adrenaline makes it doable. In close quarters 20-30 ft ( statistically 21 ft is a mean distance). I summer live on a boat, I could find this handy.

 

I'm off the phone and back on a keyboard.

if I need to eliminate a threat in close quarters this would be my go to.

 

Just a wild ass guess is you will get a minimum of 1 1/4 - 1 1/2" pattern(spread) per yard.

So in my 15 foot cabin I could expect a minimum 5" pattern so a threat coming through a 26-27" companion way is

neutralized even with some error.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Plus it is an incredibly stupid gun. Also it is explicitly banned:

What's NJs definition of sawed off?

 

If it means you can't modify a regular shotgun to shorter than 18.5" than its a federal law too. But if it's manufactured as a 14", it's legal federally.

 

Worst comes to worst, you have a club if you run out of shells

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Biggest problem with these sawed-off riot guns is how do you stand?  If you don't deliberately alter your normal shooting stance, you'll miss off to the side VERY badly and just make noise....  Right handed shooters will go WIDE LEFT unless they deliberately adjust their stance to the right, since no one holds an un-shouldered, pistol-gripped scattergun directly in front of their body....

 

And just how many rounds are you willing to PRACTICE with??  And at what cost to your tingling, arthritic hands?  Been there, done that and got the T-Shirt YEARS ago.

 

Old School, you should already have and use a stainless Marine 12 ga. made by Mossberg or Remington for the Boat.  I like the Mossberg since the safety rides on top and is therefore "ambi" and the coating won't blind me in the sun.  So does the US Military.

 

Additionally, I'd be remiss if I didn't point-out that there's NO LAW saying a 7' Dude can't operate a YOUTH model pump scattergun.  Legal OAL, same size barrel, shorter LOP.  Big guys can use it with one hand if need be, it's great in cramped quarters, it's LEGAL and YOU CAN STILL SHOULDER IT so ya stand a chance at hitting the Bad Guy!

 

Just sayin.........

 

Dave

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Anyone who thinks a pistol gripped shotgun is a good idea should try it. 

 

It's easy, most pump guns have the option available, just spend $20 on pistol grip and try it. Its even legal as far as I can tell, even if it is bizarre as hell because you fall into a strange wrinkle of the federal laws. 

 

I've tried it, mostly because my first shotgun came that way before I wised up and put a real stock on it.  It presents NO benefit what so over. The problem isn't recoil (although depending on your wrists and elbows it can be), it is that it is borderline un-aimable. 

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What's NJs definition of sawed off?

 

 

The internet says: 

 

 

"Sawed-off shotgun" means any shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less
than 18 inches in length measured from the breech to the muzzle, or a rifle having a
barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length measured from the breech to the
muzzle, or any firearm made from a rifle or a shotgun, whether by alteration, or
otherwise, if such firearm as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches

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Because in my opinion shotguns are a power tool that sucks at almost everything, but does well enough at everything. Taking the stock off and putting in a pistol grip means you've just abandoned hitting anything past 10 yards with any degree of certainty. Shortening the barrel to 14" makes that issue even worse, it is probably cylinder choke as well. Once you go down that path, you've made slugs a pointless exercise because how do you aim it, and bird shot and all its uses are now gone as well, its not as if you are going to hunt to shoot clays with it. At most of you have a 4-5 round buckshot thrower, effective at bad breath distances but slow as hell to operate, aim, reload, etc. Oh, and it uses both hands where a handgun doesn't.

 

To my mind, the only to rational uses for that are door busting and looking gangsta while you knock over your local gas station.

 

But hey, that's me, I could be wrong.

I disagree with your statement that shotguns suck at almost everything.  Shotguns are the only thing I would use for hunting waterfowl or any other flying/climbing/running (small) animal. Shotguns are also excellent stoppers at home defense/self defense distances.  They are a fine tool for putting a lot of energy on target in a rapid manner. 9 pellets of 00 buck weighs about 1 oz.  This delivers more than 1500 ft/lb of energy per shot.  I am not saying it is the best option, I just disagree with your statement that they suck. 

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I agree that it excels at hunting birds of all sorts, that is why I qualified it with "almost". 

 

I'm aware of what one can do with a shotgun, but as far as I'm concerned there almost a always a better tool for any specific job a shotgun can do, its just that the specialized tool is probably better.  I'm ok with people having a different opinion, even if they are wrong :)

 

However in this specific case of the firearm included in the first post, I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong. 

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I agree that it excels at hunting birds of all sorts, that is why I qualified it with "almost". 

 

I'm aware of what one can do with a shotgun, but as far as I'm concerned there almost a always a better tool for any specific job a shotgun can do, its just that the specialized tool is probably better.  I'm ok with people having a different opinion, even if they are wrong :)

 

However in this specific case of the firearm included in the first post, I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong.

PM sent

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Smokin .50. - who said I don't have a boat shotgun on hand already? I do. But I only use it for NY trips.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LOL!  No more drug running up and down the Jersey Coast, lol?

 

Seriously, why just NY trips?

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LOL!  No more drug running up and down the Jersey Coast, lol?

 

Seriously, why just NY trips?

I travel up to Albany to visit with the boat and really have a problem sleeping naked and defenseless.

 

No BS...The Hudson is as gorgeous and any river in the world.

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Anyone who says that a pistol grip shotgun with a legal length barrel cant be accurate has never been to one of the shotgun shootouts and seen my friend Dave shoot them. ONE handed he can consistently break clays. He also can shoot doubles with 2 full size non pistol grip shotguns consistantly, one in his left hand and one in his right. While not everyone can be very accurate with pistol grip shotguns or shooting a shotgun one handed it is definitely possible to break clays consistently if you practice enough. Lalo can vouch that this is true he has seen dave shoot many times. It's not the gun, it's the person behind the gun that makes it accurate.

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Anyone who says that a pistol grip shotgun with a legal length barrel cant be accurate has never been to one of the shotgun shootouts and seen my friend Dave shoot them. ONE handed he can consistently break clays. He also can shoot doubles with 2 full size non pistol grip shotguns consistantly, one in his left hand and one in his right. While not everyone can be very accurate with pistol grip shotguns or shooting a shotgun one handed it is definitely possible to break clays consistently if you practice enough. Lalo can vogue that this is true he has seen dave shoot many times. Its not the gun its the person behind the gun that makes it accurate.

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Anyone who says that a pistol grip shotgun with a legal length barrel cant be accurate has never been to one of the shotgun shootouts and seen my friend Dave shoot them. ONE handed he can consistently break clays. He also can shoot doubles with 2 full size non pistol grip shotguns consistantly, one in his left hand and one in his right. While not everyone can be very accurate with pistol grip shotguns or shooting a shotgun one handed it is definitely possible to break clays consistently if you practice enough. Lalo can vogue that this is true he has seen dave shoot many times. Its not the gun its the person behind the gun that makes it accurate.

I've seen him do it, it's like a perfect extension of his arm. He is also a pretty good sized dude, to be fair. Not everyone is built like him.

 

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Yes he is a big guy and I have tried to do it and can barely hold the shotgun up let alone hit a clay but its definitely possible for someone with a 18" barrel pistol grip shotgun to hit clays consistently at way past 10 yards

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Stockless shotguns/AOWs/whatever-this-one-is are not uncontrollable beasts that beat you up and shot willy nilly without your input. They are toys and are fun. I don't shoot magnum loads anyway, except 2-3/4 out of a 9200. Everybody here has fired a shotgun from the hip, this is no different. You can also sight them over the bore like any shotgun. You just don't have the stability of a stock. I think I rarely ever fired it one handed. Heck, I don't shoot subguns one handed either, even without a stock extended. The thing is not a pistol, it's AOWish.

 

You don't have to place in a skeet competition with it.

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"Sawed-off shotgun" means any shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length

measured from the breach to the muzzle, or a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches

in length measured from the breach to the muzzle, or any firearm made from a rifle or a shotgun,

whether by alteration, or otherwise, if such firearm as modified has an overall length of less than 26

inches.

to be a sawed off shotgun.. it has to start as a shotgun or a rifle..  if it is not a shotgun or a rifle.. it can not be a sawed off shotgun..

a qualifier for it to be a rifle or a shotgun means it has to be designed to be fired from the shoulder.. this is not..

 

 

 

m. "Rifle" means any firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and using the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

 

n. "Shotgun" means any firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and using the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shots or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, or any firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder which does not fire fixed ammunition.

 

 

 

 

 

not a destructive device..

 

c. "Destructive device" means any device, instrument or object designed to explode or produce uncontrolled combustion, including (1) any explosive or incendiary bomb, mine or grenade; (2) any rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces or any missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than onequarter of an ounce; (3) any weapon capable of firing a projectile of a caliber greater than 60 caliber, except a shotgun or shotgun ammunition generally recognized as suitable for sporting purposes; (4) any Molotov cocktail or other device consisting of a breakable container containing flammable liquid and having a wick or similar device capable of being ignited. The term does not include any device manufactured for the purpose of illumination, distress signaling, line-throwing, safety or similar purposes.

 

my feelings are the state would love this to be illegal.. my thoughts are maybe it is illegal in some way that I am missing.. but it is not illegal in any obvious way that I can tell.. 

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