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870 Ejection issue.

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I was shooting some clays on St. Patricks Day, and I noticed I couldn't eject shells quickly on occasion. I would have to stop and muscle the action open, and normally I can shoot doubles with the thing. 

 

I was using cheap Estate shells, and the problem was very intermittent. Does anyone have any issues with these? I am pretty good at keeping my guns clean. General contentious is to put some steel wool on a 12 gauge brush and run it in the chamber

 

I usually shoot generic Federal, and sometimes Winchester. I don't trust Estate, they're French and all...

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These shotguns have notoriously rough chambers.

 

Take a look, The roughness causes the hulls to stick prior to ejection.

 

Not on all shells but on the cheap Walmart 100 pack Winchesters it is common.

 

I don't want to make the recommendation to clean and polish the chamber but that is what I would do.

 

also I would make sure the bolt face is clean and the extractor is sharp and not damaged.

 

Note: everything I've written applies to the late model 870 Express that I've seen

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I use Remington target clay shells. Occasionally that will happen to me. But never really gave it any thought. Besides polishing the chamber like old school said I think we will just have to live with it.

The issue really is we all like to use inexpensive shells for clays, me included.

 

The metal at the base is now steel and no longer brass and doesn't contract as well for ejection.

 

Compounded by the fact that, the 870 Express is kicked out by the thousands and the chamber quality is less than perfect.

 

So it may be necessary to tinker or have gunsmith do it.

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The demise of the all-brass base shotshell to brass-washed steel combined with a rough chamber is the culprit. "Economy" shells today exhibit this. Quality (I.E. more expensive) target loads still use an all-brass base.

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The demise of the all-brass base shotshell to brass-washed steel combined with a rough chamber is the culprit. "Economy" shells today exhibit this. Quality (I.E. more expensive) target loads still use an all-brass base.

To make it worst the cheap stuff isn't brass washed at all. Some kind of silver coating.

 

If I had this problem, a dremmel, felt pad and flitz would be my friend

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The absolute most likely - to - be -the-fix course of action here is polishing the chamber very good.  I have a ton of money, time, effort, and work in my 870 Tactical / Magul / Police - including 2 separate 870P nin-MIM extractors which did NOT help the problems.  To be honest, as soon as I removed the stock, MIM extractor, and replaced with the POLICE Spec extractor, I had problems.  - If you do not know , MIM means Metal Injection Molding, it's like using metal paste to form a part.  (as plain as can be explained at least.)  The 870 Express models all have an MIM extractor, the 870P/Police-spec models have a machined, non-MIM extractor, and replacing the extractor to use the non-MIM extractor is a very common upgrade on tactical models or just people looking to "upgrade" their 870.

 

In fact , I had a ton of problems with a rough chamber, shooting shells didn't fix the problem, it seemed to accelerate the problem.  The only way I tempered the extraction issues was to go through with a dedicated and thorough polishing of the chamber and throat-area with a Dremel, felt wheels, and polishing compound.  Then I shot another 50-100 cheap target loads, cleaned it well, polished it again, and did the same.

 

 

If you do some hardcore research online, most 870 experts will concur that extraction issues are often NOT caused by extractor-issues (as the non-MIM extractor will really work just fine, it is absolutely not necessary nor performance-upgrading to replace it) but by a rough chamber or other roughness in the loading areas.

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Just for the record :

 

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/03/23/new-volquartsen-edge-extractor/

 

Volquartsen just came out with an "Exact Edge Extractor" for the 870 and 1100 series shotguns; that is, they are the best of the best.  I have two Volquartsen internals upgrades in both of my Remington 597s including their Exact Edge Extractors.  Simply amazing.  AMAZING.

 

Despite the fact my previous post still rings true, and the polishing of the chamber is the real key to extraction issues, I may just very well buy the VQ EEE for my 870 because they are that good.

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Take a look at this video....he explains the problem (and the fix) well.

 

 

I had similar issues, and used an old bore brush wrapped with steel wool to remove the roughness on the feed/extraction ramp.

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To make it worst the cheap stuff isn't brass washed at all. Some kind of silver coating.

 

If I had this problem, a dremmel, felt pad and flitz would be my friend

 

I never experienced the phenomenon of "stiff extraction" however began to read about it on many internet shotgun forums in the last decade. It seems when the quality of ammunition construction dipped (I.E. brass bases changed to steel bases washed with brass, copper or zinc/nickel) which also seemed to coincide with cheaper, price point shotgun offerings that lacked the final-finish quality of their predecessors. Both began somewhere in the 90's.

 

My '84 870 chamber exhibits no roughness or "bumps" that need grinding or polishing. Not my easiest "shucker" compared to an Ithaca M37 or Winchester M12, but it is still smooth and has never given me a problem. I also have a collection of brass-based hulls which I have hoarded over the years that I reload with. I reload steel RGL's too, but I've never had a problem with any gun I've used them in.

 

The "newest" shotgun I own is twenty years old. The oldest is more than hundred, and I still use them all with no problems with any ammunition I've fed them. The quality of shotgun fit and finish from the major gunmaker's today for the average person's wallet doesn't compare to what was available years ago.

 

870chambermouth_zps4367216c.jpg

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What was going on (with my shotgun) was the rim of the shell was getting caught on some tool chatter marks on what was supposed to be a smooth surface (where the rim of the shell slides while its being extracted from the chamber).  Sadly, my newer 870 did not exhibit the smooth surface shown above, but had several tool marks close-in to the chamber opening.  The 870, being a single extractor shotgun, pulls the shell out of the chamber with an asymmetric force - essentially it's trying to put a spin on the shell, flinging it out; not pulling it out straight back.  What was happening is instead of sliding along a smooth surface, the rim of the shell would get hung up on the tool marks.  Meanwhile, the extractor kept pulling on the shell from the other side, pushing it more firmly into the tool mark while at the same time trying to turn the shell while the plastic hull is still in the chamber, jamming the gun. 

 

What was interesting, and made it more maddening to figure out, is the extraction problem only occurred with low brass...never with high brass.  It seems the extra length of the high brass shell was supported inside the chamber longer and allowed the rim to step-over the tool marks, while the low brass dropped the rim right into the tool marks and got caught. 

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What was going on (with my shotgun) was the rim of the shell was getting caught on some tool chatter marks on what was supposed to be a smooth surface (where the rim of the shell slides while its being extracted from the chamber).  Sadly, my newer 870 did not exhibit the smooth surface shown above, but had several tool marks close-in to the chamber opening.  The 870, being a single extractor shotgun, pulls the shell out of the chamber with an asymmetric force - essentially it's trying to put a spin on the shell, flinging it out; not pulling it out straight back.  What was happening is instead of sliding along a smooth surface, the rim of the shell would get hung up on the tool marks.  Meanwhile, the extractor kept pulling on the shell from the other side, pushing it more firmly into the tool mark while at the same time trying to turn the shell while the plastic hull is still in the chamber, jamming the gun. 

 

What was interesting, and made it more maddening to figure out, is the extraction problem only occurred with low brass...never with high brass.  It seems the extra length of the high brass shell was supported inside the chamber longer and allowed the rim to step-over the tool marks, while the low brass dropped the rim right into the tool marks and got caught. 

 

I feel your pain. I always recommend folks buy a good used gun if possible, made around the time when folks took pride and care in what they produced. The "cheaper, faster, better" mantra is one reason a noble industry has been ruined.

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All of this goes to show the Noobs that sometimes an older gun with a very small scratch is a better buy than a new one out-of-the-box.  I have a Winchester Model 1300 Featherweight that is well worn-in.  The action is best described as "buttery".  Takes just two fingers to make it cycle.  Great afield or in a knockdown steel match.  Made back when Craftsmen made guns....

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