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shot gun home defense ammo what is recommended?

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Does ur local PD carry shotguns?  Any in stock?  What do they use?

Njsp?  What so they use? 

Fbi?  What do they use?

 

Whatever is GOOD FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT is GOOD FOR me.

 

00Buck low recoil law enforcement rounds.....

 

With some slugs in the saddle....

 

Ymmv

 

 

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On 1/4/2018 at 4:34 PM, Owen54 said:

Your* I'm guessing is the word you wanted. Urban dictionary didn't show flaweddi though 

However I said my thinking isn't the most popular and neither is knowing the laws for most people. I'm friends with cops, I'm very familiar with NJ laws and my plan is to "hopefully" not kill someone if I can just hurt them bad instead. But they are guns the reality is people die. Remember in NJ you don't have right to defend yourself legally. 

What? This is the silliest statement I've seen here in a while....  ur wrong on a lot of accounts

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On 1/4/2018 at 5:31 PM, Zeke said:

Dead men tell no lies 

And dead men cannot sue you civilly for grievously injuring or crippling them.

Of course a dead man's family could always take a shot at it.

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On 1/7/2018 at 2:49 PM, Owen54 said:

When a police officer (close friend) and my lawyer both tell me (last month we talked) if I shoot a man for any reason at all even if he has a gun in my home I'm going to see prison I listen. I'll listen to them before someone on the internet.

Dude I'm a chemical worker not an English major so yea you got me. 

They do not.kmownqhat they r talking about listen to @High Exposure....  sheesh

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6 minutes ago, 45Doll said:

And dead men cannot sue you civilly for grievously injuring or crippling them.

Of course a dead man's family could always take a shot at it.

Hit, taze, push, punch. Jail...If you seriously need to shoot someone, make it count.. and, you’ll suffer forever even if it’s justified... I’m never going to be that keyboard guy, I know the ramifications. Lethal force is a matter of their life (‘s) vs yours and yourn.

 

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On 1/7/2018 at 2:49 PM, Owen54 said:

When a police officer (close friend) and my lawyer both tell me (last month we talked) if I shoot a man for any reason at all even if he has a gun in my home I'm going to see prison I listen. I'll listen to them before someone on the internet.

Dude I'm a chemical worker not an English major so yea you got me. 

you use lethal force when your life is in danger.. so even if you are arrested.. charged.. who care.. the alternative is probable death.. sounds like an easy choice for me.. 

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16 hours ago, Indianajonze said:

Doesn't apply to NJ

So I guess the prevailing opinion is 00 buck for hd? No love at all for rifled slugs or sabots?

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
 

Stand your ground doesn’t apply. Castle still exists 

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On 8/10/2017 at 4:54 PM, Vlad G said:

Sorry that is wrong. 

Modern semi-autos work better then pumps. I have empirical evidence. People short stroke pumps all the time, struggle with all sorts of issues. 

i'm gonna sound like a dimwit.....is short stroking a pump gun when you don't cycle it far enough to fully eject the shell? or when you don't go back far enough to fully chamber the next round? asking, 'cause i've made both of those mistakes at my first 3gun shoot with a pump. felt like a dope for doing it.

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2 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

i'm gonna sound like a dimwit.....is short stroking a pump gun when you don't cycle it far enough to fully eject the shell? or when you don't go back far enough to fully chamber the next round? asking, 'cause i've made both of those mistakes at my first 3gun shoot with a pump. felt like a dope for doing it.

Yes

And everyone has done it when trying to run a pump gun at or near the limit of their top speed.

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9 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

i'm gonna sound like a dimwit.....is short stroking a pump gun when you don't cycle it far enough to fully eject the shell? or when you don't go back far enough to fully chamber the next round? asking, 'cause i've made both of those mistakes at my first 3gun shoot with a pump. felt like a dope for doing it.

Snap caps, practice, become awesome.

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5 hours ago, Scorpio64 said:

Snap caps, practice, become awesome.

Practice certainly helps, but it needs to be practice that matches what you are going to be doing. Pumping the gun while standing still is sufficiently different then doing it on the move, doing it while mounting or dismounting the gun, doing it while handling recoil, while your hands are sweaty, etc.

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57 minutes ago, Vlad G said:

Practice certainly helps, but it needs to be practice that matches what you are going to be doing. Pumping the gun while standing still is sufficiently different then doing it on the move, doing it while mounting or dismounting the gun, doing it while handling recoil, while your hands are sweaty, etc.

Yup.

Contrary to the popular saying:

Practice does not make perfect - It merely makes permanent.

It should be: 

Perfectly Performed Pertinent Procedures Practiced Properly Produces Perfection.

 

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Its funny how the simplar the operation of the gun, the more human error takes over.  

Ive shot enough shotgun stages and ill still do it once in a while.  

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast

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Stand your ground doesn’t apply. Castle still exists 
Oh yes. I'll keep that in mind when I'm required by NJ law to smuggle my family out of a bedroom window when bad guys break in because of "duty to retreat"

I'll try to answer my own earlier questions as I've been researching all weekend. It turns out sabots are used mostly for dedicated hunting rifles as they require rifled barrels, which most hd shotguns don't have. Also, they're used for long ranges (200-300+ yards). Clearly not ideal for hd. Rifled slugs seem like a good viable option vs standard buckshot. Have to research further but looks promising.

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42 minutes ago, Indianajonze said:

Oh yes. I'll keep that in mind when I'm required by NJ law to smuggle my family out of a bedroom window when bad guys break in because of "duty to retreat"

I'll try to answer my own earlier questions as I've been researching all weekend. It turns out sabots are used mostly for dedicated hunting rifles as they require rifled barrels, which most hd shotguns don't have. Also, they're used for long ranges (200-300+ yards). Clearly not ideal for hd. Rifled slugs seem like a good viable option vs standard buckshot. Have to research further but looks promising.

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Rifled slugs will be accurate enough at HD distances.  I would still practice with 'em to see where they hit compared to your aim point, etc.  I've had some weird issues at 3Gun matches where my slugs went all over - not sure if it was just me being tired or something else. 

 

Also - having to retreat out of a bedroom window is way too risky for me... unless it's on the ground floor - I'll "stand my ground" on that one.  You have a duty to reasonably retreat... breaking a leg trying to get out a window is not reasonable.

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1 hour ago, Indianajonze said:

Oh yes. I'll keep that in mind when I'm required by NJ law to smuggle my family out of a bedroom window when bad guys break in because of "duty to retreat"

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@IndianajonzeWhy don’t you read the actual law instead of spouting complete nonsense that is wrong.

You have no obligation to retreat from your dwelling, unless you are the one causing the situation requiring the use of force.

And finally, why would you use slugs for HD? Probably the worst round you could use in a house.

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4 hours ago, High Exposure said:

Yup.

Contrary to the popular saying:

Practice does not make perfect - It merely makes permanent.

It should be: 

Perfectly Performed Pertinent Procedures Practiced Properly Produces Perfection.

 

8

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1 hour ago, Indianajonze said:

Oh yes. I'll keep that in mind when I'm required by NJ law to smuggle my family out of a bedroom window when bad guys break in because of "duty to retreat"

I'll try to answer my own earlier questions as I've been researching all weekend. It turns out sabots are used mostly for dedicated hunting rifles as they require rifled barrels, which most hd shotguns don't have. Also, they're used for long ranges (200-300+ yards). Clearly not ideal for hd. Rifled slugs seem like a good viable option vs standard buckshot. Have to research further but looks promising.

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk
 

If it's your house, you are not the aggressor and the cops aren't the ones in your house, you are covered.

The below act is for all self-protection (all not just in the house).  You will note that there is no duty to retreat from your home (dwelling).

2C:3-4 Use of force in self-protection.

2C:3-4. Use of Force in Self-Protection. a. Use of force justifiable for protection of the person. Subject to the provisions of this section and of section 2C:3-9, the use of force upon or toward another person is justifiable when the actor reasonably believes that such force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself against the use of unlawful force by such other person on the present occasion.

b.Limitations on justifying necessity for use of force.

(1)The use of force is not justifiable under this section:

(a)To resist an arrest which the actor knows is being made by a peace officer in the performance of his duties, although the arrest is unlawful, unless the peace officer employs unlawful force to effect such arrest; or

(b)To resist force used by the occupier or possessor of property or by another person on his behalf, where the actor knows that the person using the force is doing so under a claim of right to protect the property, except that this limitation shall not apply if:

(i)The actor is a public officer acting in the performance of his duties or a person lawfully assisting him therein or a person making or assisting in a lawful arrest;

(ii)The actor has been unlawfully dispossessed of the property and is making a reentry or recaption justified by section 2C:3-6; or

(iii) The actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death or serious bodily harm.

(2)The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death or serious bodily harm; nor is it justifiable if:

(a)The actor, with the purpose of causing death or serious bodily harm, provoked the use of force against himself in the same encounter; or

(b)The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:

(i)The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling, unless he was the initial aggressor; and

(ii)A public officer justified in using force in the performance of his duties or a person justified in using force in his assistance or a person justified in using force in making an arrest or preventing an escape is not obliged to desist from efforts to perform such duty, effect such arrest or prevent such escape because of resistance or threatened resistance by or on behalf of the person against whom such action is directed.

(3)Except as required by paragraphs (1) and (2) of this subsection, a person employing protective force may estimate the necessity of using force when the force is used, without retreating, surrendering possession, doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do or abstaining from any lawful action.

c. (1) Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S.2C:3-5, N.J.S.2C:3-9, or this section, the use of force or deadly force upon or toward an intruder who is unlawfully in a dwelling is justifiable when the actor reasonably believes that the force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself or other persons in the dwelling against the use of unlawful force by the intruder on the present occasion.

(2)A reasonable belief exists when the actor, to protect himself or a third person, was in his own dwelling at the time of the offense or was privileged to be thereon and the encounter between the actor and intruder was sudden and unexpected, compelling the actor to act instantly and:

(a)The actor reasonably believed that the intruder would inflict personal injury upon the actor or others in the dwelling; or

(b)The actor demanded that the intruder disarm, surrender or withdraw, and the intruder refused to do so.

(3)An actor employing protective force may estimate the necessity of using force when the force is used, without retreating, surrendering possession, withdrawing or doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do or abstaining from any lawful action.

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Why don’t you read the actual law instead of spouting complete nonsense that is wrong.
You have no obligation to retreat from your dwelling, unless you are the one causing the situation requiring the use of force.
And finally, why would you use slugs for HD? Probably the worst round you could use in a house.
Well idk about complete nonsense. If you have the ability to retreat to "complete safety", you must do so and you are required to surrender the house to the intruders before deadly force is could even begin to be considered justified. So God forbid if you live at ground level with windows and exit doors. Can you assert this is not the case? I've read NJ statute 2c:3-4 many times. It is "extremely nuanced" to put it mildly and not nearly so matter of fact as you claim. If it turns out the intruders have knives or are unarmed, for example, you might have issues in this state if your force isn't matched. Again, extremely nuanced.

As for slugs, I'd say to use them for greater shot placement? Better accuracy if you have to shoot down a long hallway when you're not worried about over penetration? Less recoil/more accurate follow up shots? There are several reasons I could envision. Why would you use a 5.56 round? I see similar use cases. Again though, I'm still researching. Thanks for the input

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7 minutes ago, Indianajonze said:

Well idk about complete nonsense. If you have the ability to retreat to "complete safety", you must do so and you are required to surrender the house to the intruders before deadly force is could even begin to be considered justified. So God forbid if you live at ground level with windows and exit doors. Can you assert this is not the case? I've read NJ statute 2c:3-4 many times. It is "extremely nuanced" to put it mildly and not nearly so matter of fact as you claim. If it turns out the intruders have knives or are unarmed, for example, you might have issues in this state if your force isn't matched. Again, extremely nuanced.

As for slugs, I'd say to use them for greater shot placement? Better accuracy if you have to shoot down a long hallway when you're not worried about over penetration? Less recoil/more accurate follow up shots? There are several reasons I could envision. Why would you use a 5.56 round? I see similar use cases. Again though, I'm still researching. Thanks for the input

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk
 

"Complete safety" only comes into effect when outside the home.  You have no duty to retreat from your house -- unless you are the aggressor.

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4 minutes ago, GunsnFreedom said:

"Complete safety" only comes into effect when outside the home.

"Golly gee whiz, Wally, that must explain New Jersey's position on Carry outside the home!

The State thinks that you're completely safe when outside the home!

Wait till Whitey hears about this!!!"

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"Complete safety" only comes into effect when outside the home.  You have no duty to retreat from your house -- unless you are the aggressor.
The nj legal community would disagree with that blanket assertion. I'd urge anyone interested to attend the various nj gun law seminars they hold periodically. You guys are funny. You know damn well what a hostile state we live in (where you go to jail for 10 years if you have to pee after leaving the gun range), yet you're assuming an ambiguously written statute is going to serve as an iron clad castle doctrine when the time comes to end some enterprising urban youth who's just try to aquire capital to attend college. In new jersey. I hope you're right, and I pray no one here ever has to find out. Sorry to derail the thread

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4 minutes ago, njJoniGuy said:

"Golly gee whiz, Wally, that must explain New Jersey's position on Carry outside the home!

The State thinks that you're completely safe when outside the home!

Wait till Whitey hears about this!!!"

This is also why national reciprocity is still a crap shoot in NJ.  If the state was forced to accept CCW, self defense laws are still not on our side.  If we were attacked and defended ourselves with a CCW's weapon, we'd be arrested and charged with murder.

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40 minutes ago, Indianajonze said:

Well idk about complete nonsense. If you have the ability to retreat to "complete safety", you must do so and you are required to surrender the house to the intruders before deadly force is could even begin to be considered justified. So God forbid if you live at ground level with windows and exit doors. Can you assert this is not the case? I've read NJ statute 2c:3-4 many times. It is "extremely nuanced" to put it mildly and not nearly so matter of fact as you claim. If it turns out the intruders have knives or are unarmed, for example, you might have issues in this state if your force isn't matched. Again, extremely nuanced.

As for slugs, I'd say to use them for greater shot placement? Better accuracy if you have to shoot down a long hallway when you're not worried about over penetration? Less recoil/more accurate follow up shots? There are several reasons I could envision. Why would you use a 5.56 round? I see similar use cases. Again though, I'm still researching. Thanks for the input

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk
 

:facepalm: 

It is not nuanced. It’s literally right there in the statute.

“The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling, unless he was the initial aggressor”

As for slugs, unless you have a hallway well over 50 yards and your target is all the way down there you are going to have over penetration issues even if you hit your intended threat. Slugs will always carry over penetrarion concerns. They hit hard and punch through meat.

Slugs generally have more recoil and longer split times between follow up shots.

5.56 has significantly less overpenetration issues than slugs AND the projectiles lose energy faster (translating to less lethality and potential for injury) after passing through typical US construction material than either pistol or shotgun rounds that are suitable for defense.

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32 minutes ago, Indianajonze said:

The nj legal community would disagree with that blanket assertion. I'd urge anyone interested to attend the various nj gun law seminars they hold periodically. You guys are funny. You know damn well what a hostile state we live in (where you go to jail for 10 years if you have to pee after leaving the gun range), yet you're assuming an ambiguously written statute is going to serve as an iron clad castle doctrine when the time comes to end some enterprising urban youth who's just try to aquire capital to attend college. In new jersey. I hope you're right, and I pray no one here ever has to find out. Sorry to derail the thread

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Jeebus.....

Show me one person that has gone to jail for 10 years for stopping to pee on the way home from the range. I’ll wait.....

Where do you guys come up with some of his stuff. It’s like an urban legend that everyone believes in because one idiot said it’s true or it happened to their cousin’s girlfriend’s aunt’s former roommate.

Again! It is black and white.

“The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling, unless he was the initial aggressor”

You have an expectation of safety in your home. You have no obligation to retreat from there if you are being attacked or threatened with death or serious bodily injury.

That doesn’t necessarily mean that escape isn’t a better option if it is available to you, but if you have to use force in your home, you are covered. 

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