PK90 3,569 Posted February 7, 2018 15 minutes ago, High Exposure said: I disagree Paul. I want to know where every pellet is going, and I want as many of those pellets to hit my point of aim as possible. Spread may increase my chances of scoring a hit. It also increases my chances or scoring a miss or a peripheral hit that isn’t as useful. Break into my crib, and I be like > 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,120 Posted February 7, 2018 Just now, PK90 said: Break into my crib, and I be like > Why do I get the feeling you would not even have to be home for a burglar to get shot with a scatter gun at your crib. I invision lots of eye screws, clamps and paracord by your front door. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted February 7, 2018 22 hours ago, PK90 said: The larger the spread the better, for home defense. Why does no one get this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted February 7, 2018 14 minutes ago, Ray Ray said: Why does no one get this. We need to pattern your choice, vs 00buck,vs @PK90 claymore or blunderbus or whatever. 37 minutes ago, PK90 said: Break into my crib, and I be like > Werd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,872 Posted February 7, 2018 3 hours ago, Scorpio64 said: Why do I get the feeling you would not even have to be home for a burglar to get shot with a scatter gun at your crib. I invision lots of eye screws, clamps and paracord by your front door. http://www.americanspecialtyammo.com/Gadgets.html 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,555 Posted February 8, 2018 @ 21 -25 ' w/ fiocchi 00 buck I get about a 1"-2" hole with a 18.5 mossy 500 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted February 8, 2018 10 minutes ago, silverado427 said: @ 21 -25 ' w/ fiocchi 00 buck I get about a 1"-2" hole with a 18.5 mossy 500 Hi velocity? Got me 200 rounds that stuff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted February 8, 2018 23 minutes ago, silverado427 said: @ 21 -25 ' w/ fiocchi 00 buck I get about a 1"-2" hole with a 18.5 mossy 500 At about that distance High Brass BB shot will cover a B-27 USPSA target. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted February 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, Ray Ray said: At about that distance High Brass BB shot will cover a B-27 USPSA target. No Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, Zeke said: No So i hit the perps whole body! Yes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, Ray Ray said: So i hit the perps whole body! Yes! Let’s prove it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,555 Posted February 8, 2018 22 minutes ago, Zeke said: Hi velocity? Got me 200 rounds that stuff. Low recoil and Std velocity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted February 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, Zeke said: Let’s prove it... I did, at a range. It's called patterning your shotgun. I know the range of my home defense shotgun and it's ammo. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted February 8, 2018 8 minutes ago, Ray Ray said: I did, at a range. It's called patterning your shotgun. I know the range of my home defense shotgun and it's ammo. Witnesses or pics? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, Zeke said: Witnesses or pics? 2012, @Caine 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caine 147 Posted February 8, 2018 'Tis true... I was there (more than once)... not that I agree with his choice of ammo 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parker 213 Posted February 8, 2018 9 hours ago, Zeke said: what distance would you pattern for clays? "Clays" is a broad term. If you are talking the skeet game, pattern for 25 yards because your shots will be less than this distance provided you shoot every bird at the crossing point (center stake.) Dawdle on the bird and you could be stretching that distance. For trap and sporting clays courses I would pattern for 40 yards. You could be shooting trap from the 16 yard line or the 27 yard line, so you'll be breaking birds on average from 30 to 40 yards away. You'd want to know what pattern your gun is throwing especially for edge-on presentations. For small game hunting, I check my patterns out to 40 yards. When using buckshot for furbearers, I check patterns out to 40 yards. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,555 Posted February 8, 2018 I was looking for something in my footlocker and look what I found , The ultimate HD shotgun ammo. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted February 9, 2018 1 hour ago, silverado427 said: I was looking for something in my footlocker and look what I found , The ultimate HD shotgun ammo. Idk, you filter through the rumor law derp some good info I think Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted February 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Zeke said: Idk, you filter through the rumor law derp some good info I think I wonder if any ammo manufacturers have thought of making light #1 or OO loads. A light OO load (with 6-8 pellets) at 900 fps would still give decent penetration. Low recoil 00 buck penetrates about 21" in ballistic get. I would think a light load would get to 16" or so. Just a thought. Would make a Shockwave or TAC 14 much more controllable with decent penetration. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted February 9, 2018 5 hours ago, GRIZ said: I wonder if any ammo manufacturers have thought of making light #1 or OO loads. A light OO load (with 6-8 pellets) at 900 fps would still give decent penetration. Low recoil 00 buck penetrates about 21" in ballistic get. I would think a light load would get to 16" or so. Just a thought. Would make a Shockwave or TAC 14 much more controllable with decent penetration. I used standard 00 Buck, as did @RecessedFilter, through my Shockwave and it wasn't bad at all. There are low recoil options from Federeral and Hornady AND the Aguila mini shells as well. 12 gauge, options gallor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted February 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Ray Ray said: I used standard 00 Buck, as did @RecessedFilter, through my Shockwave and it wasn't bad at all. There are low recoil options from Federeral and Hornady AND the Aguila mini shells as well. 12 gauge, options gallor. I've fired a lot of different rounds through 14" PGO and birds head grip shotguns over the past 30 years. I agree they all are controllable for many but brutal to some. Peneration in ballistics gel is about as follows from a quick search: #2 birdshot.......10" #4 buck........14" #1 buck.......17" OO buck......21" All make a rat hole entry but you need #4 buck or better to get significant penetration. A "light" 2 3/4" OO load could give you this without going to mini shells or need of an adapter. Ammo like this in a Shockwave or similar gun would make recoil go from "controllable" to "not that bad". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,555 Posted February 9, 2018 I was shooting some 00 buck out of a 88 maverick with a raptor grip yesterday. I didn't realize it was low recoil till I put some #4 buck in there. Not unmanageable but I think some # 4 buck low recoil would be a better choice for my HD needs 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted February 9, 2018 18 minutes ago, silverado427 said: I was shooting some 00 buck out of a 88 maverick with a raptor grip yesterday. I didn't realize it was low recoil till I put some #4 buck in there. Not unmanageable but I think some # 4 buck low recoil would be a better choice for my HD needs Recoil is basically a function of the total ejected mass (projectile and powder) with a factor for velocity vs the weight of the gun. An ounce of #4 buck at 1100 fps will give you the same recoil as an ounce of OO at 1100 fps. The #4 will give you significantly less penetration. As I related earlier, in the 70s and early 80s LE was all over full power #4 buck as the answer. They found it lacked enough penetration compared to std OO buck. A low recoil #4 buck would give even less penetration. I think Federal made low recoil #4 buck but don't know if they still do. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted February 9, 2018 2 hours ago, silverado427 said: I was shooting some 00 buck out of a 88 maverick with a raptor grip yesterday. I didn't realize it was low recoil till I put some #4 buck in there. Not unmanageable but I think some # 4 buck low recoil would be a better choice for my HD needs Try 3 inch and 3 1/2 shells. Totally useless for anything other than hunting. The recoil goes from uncomfortable in 3 inch to ouchies in 3 1/2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,569 Posted February 9, 2018 Okay. So, birdshot is the safest, but what about penetration into flesh? Which round will stop a human? I'd like to see penetration tests on someone (simulated of course) wearing a leather jacket with a wall behind. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted February 9, 2018 15 minutes ago, PK90 said: Okay. So, birdshot is the safest, but what about penetration into flesh? Which round will stop a human? I'd like to see penetration tests on someone (simulated of course) wearing a leather jacket with a wall behind. Paul, inside 7 yards IT IS ALL THE SAME! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,569 Posted February 9, 2018 57 minutes ago, Ray Ray said: Paul, inside 7 yards IT IS ALL THE SAME! I find that hard to believe. If true, people would use birdshot to hunt deer. Come on Ray. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted February 9, 2018 No it isn’t Ray. F=ma And e=.5mv^2 Do the math. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites