shot gun home defense ammo what is recommended?

[Scorpio64 5,147]

12 minutes ago, Indianajonze said:

You know damn well what a hostile state we live in (where you go to jail for 10 years if you have to pee after leaving the gun range),

Dude, this is completely untrue.  Fake news!!! 

 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

1 hour ago, High Exposure said:

@IndianajonzeWhy don’t you read the actual law instead of spouting complete nonsense that is wrong.

You have no obligation to retreat from your dwelling, unless you are the one causing the situation requiring the use of force.

And finally, why would you use slugs for HD? Probably the worst round you could use in a house.

308 would probably be worse, just sayin.

[GunsnFreedom 245]

17 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

Jeebus.....

Show me one person that has gone to jail for 10 years for stopping to pee on the way home from the range. I’ll wait.....

Where do you guys come up with some of his stuff. It’s like an urban legend that everyone believes in because one idiot said it’s true or it happened to their cousin’s girlfriend’s aunt’s former roommate.

Again! It is black and white.

“The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling, unless he was the initial aggressor”

You have an expectation of safety in your home. You have no obligation to retreat from there if you are being attacked or threatened with death or serious bodily injury.

That doesn’t necessarily mean that escape isn’t a better option if it is available to you, but if you have to use force in your home, you are covered. 

I totally understand where the belief comes from.  The laws in NJ are extraordinarily confusing.  The self-defense statute creates a duty to retreat and a duty to relinquish property if it will resolve the issue - and you are not at home - but written in legalise so it looks like you always have to do it.  People go to jail for circumstances that appear to fit the story.  A LEO went to jail for shooting at some kids who he thought were trying to rob him - but he left his house and shot at them as they were driving away; and some kid killed a homeless guy with a sword when the homeless guy tried to rob him.  But the kid left his dorm to go to a storage area with a sword.  There is only one instance that I know of where the ruling was very gray and it involved a woman who shot her abusive husband. 

I get where it comes from, and personally would not want to face the situation.  Being in your home does not protect against being over-zealous or just generally reckless. 

Here is a story quoting a Bergen prosecutor describing a bit of the law and how we act in a defense capacity can change how it is handled by prosecutors and PD's

http://www.burlingtoncountytimes.com/9c5afd72-6662-11e7-934e-1f040de5ea24.html

Edited February 5, 2018 by GunsnFreedom
clarity

[High Exposure 5,661]

Just now, Ray Ray said:

308 would probably be worse, just sayin.

And .50BMG even moreso.

Ray, you are a lover of all things shotgun (weirdo*) and fairly learned on the topic (for a weirdo*) - would you use slugs in a HD gun?

Hell, you don’t even want to use 00B and prefer birdshot (like a weirdo*).

 

*said with love

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Yes, I would (and have @GunsnFreedom now has my old HD ammo) use the correct slug for home defense. 

But that was when i had more space to defend and less likely of hitting my neighbor.  

Apartment living means neighbors up my ass, which means i dont want penetration, which means i want either #4 or BBshot.  I like high brass BB shot.  It does wonders on tree stumps at 10 yards.  Past that, its basically birdshot.

[Indianajonze 379]

Dude, this is completely untrue.  Fake news!!! 
 

Fine, bad example. Replace with "finding hollow point bullets in your backseat"

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk

[High Exposure 5,661]

On 2/5/2018 at 12:07 PM, Indianajonze said:

Fine, bad example. Replace with "finding hollow point bullets in your backseat"

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk
 

Ok, but there is a law against that. Again, pretty cut and dry.

Just as cut and dry as another law that says you have no duty to retreat in your home if being attacked.

You go ahead and do what you want but don’t propagate false info. 

[GRIZ 3,369]

9 minutes ago, Indianajonze said:

Fine, bad example. Replace with "finding hollow point bullets in your backseat"

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk
 

Having hollow points outside the limitations is by itself a crime.

Please enlighten us to all the arrests made for possession of hollow points alone without some other crime being involved.

[Indianajonze 379]

Ok, but there is a law against that*. Again, pretty cut and dry..

You mean like N.J.S.2C:39-5? Which the new idiot governor went out of his way to have a press conference to reinstate?

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk

Having hollow points outside the limitations is by itself a crime.
Please enlighten us to all the arrests made for possession of hollow points alone without some other crime being involved.

I cannot. Doesn't mean it isn't against the law here

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk

[High Exposure 5,661]

7 minutes ago, Indianajonze said:

You mean like N.J.S.2C:39-5? Which the new idiot governor went out of his way to have a press conference to reinstate?

I think you were looking for 2C:39-6g

g.All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

Show me where it says you can’t stop to pee, or get gas, or eat...

[Indianajonze 379]

I think you were looking for 2C:39-6g

g.All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

Show me where it says you can’t stop to pee, or get gas, or eat...

Again, extremely nuanced. There's a reason why this is so. I think stopping for breakfast or getting gas or buying milk are reasonable deviations. A NJ jury may not. Has anyone been prosecuted in the history of the state for it? Probably not. Doesn't mean you can't be the first, esp in the current political climate

 

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[High Exposure 5,661]

 

[GunsnFreedom 245]

34 minutes ago, Indianajonze said:

 

 

You mean like N.J.S.2C:39-5? Which the new idiot governor went out of his way to have a press conference to reinstate?

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk

I cannot. Doesn't mean it isn't against the law here

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk
 

 

Or is it 2C:58-4 ? The justifiable need criteria?

 

[Zeke 5,504]

Just now, GunsnFreedom said:

Or is it 2C:58-4 ? The justifiable need criteria?

 

That’s the only thing I’ve heard.

 

[GunsnFreedom 245]

30 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

I think you were looking for 2C:39-6g

g.All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

Show me where it says you can’t stop to pee, or get gas, or eat...

And funny enough, taking a pee is literally one of the reasonable deviations the old AG listed.

http://www.nj.gov/lps/dcj/agguide/transporting-firearms_guide.pdf

[Owen54 4]

This started as a thread about shotgun ammo lol

[Scorpio64 5,147]

Just now, Owen54 said:

This started as a thread about shotgun ammo lol

What's your point?

[Indianajonze 379]

This started as a thread about shotgun ammo lol

Yeah, so back to that, I see federal LE flite control 00 is available in 8 or 9 shot. What's the difference (other than the obvious extra ball of lead)? Seems odd to offer both. Also, are the Hornady hd equivalents 2x better than federal LE? The prices for Hornady are easily twice as much as flite control

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk

[GRIZ 3,369]

48 minutes ago, GunsnFreedom said:

And funny enough, taking a pee is literally one of the reasonable deviations the old AG listed.

http://www.nj.gov/lps/dcj/agguide/transporting-firearms_guide.pdf

Also eating, picking up people, etc etc

10 minutes ago, Indianajonze said:

Yeah, so back to that, I see federal LE flite control 00 is available in 8 or 9 shot. What's the difference (other than the obvious extra ball of lead)? Seems odd to offer both. Also, are the Hornady hd equivalents 2x better than federal LE? The prices for Hornady are easily twice as much as flite control

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk
 

8 or 9 pellet?  A bit less recoil.

I use Remington 8 and 9 pellet reduced recoil.  Same velocity.  Really can't tell the difference.

[High Exposure 5,661]

I’ve heard 8 pellet has less chance of a flier. Less pellets means they aren’t as compressed together in the shell so there is less chance of a pellet or two getting any flat spots or deformities. 

Not sure if I believe it, but that’s a “selling point” from the manufacturer.

Less recoil is another factor.

FWIW - we use Federal 8 pellet 00B Flite Control.

[bhunted 887]

I use this. The pattern is great.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[silverado427 10,677]

What's the general opinion on # 4 buck for HD

[Ray Ray 3,566]

8 minutes ago, silverado427 said:

What's the general opinion on # 4 buck for HD

It works

[GRIZ 3,369]

8 minutes ago, silverado427 said:

What's the general opinion on # 4 buck for HD

Back in the 70s LE thought #4 buck was the ultimate.  They found out it wasn't and penetration was not very good.  Most went back to OO.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

9 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

Back in the 70s LE thought #4 buck was the ultimate.  They found out it wasn't and penetration was not very good.  Most went back to OO.

I'll take you for your word, and i believe the alphabet agencies use #4, but in a Home Defense situation does it really matter if the perp is hit with 27 22 caliber pellets or 9 32 caliber pellets?

[High Exposure 5,661]

It’s all about penetration Ray, not number of hits.

All the hits in the world don’t matter if you cant get the projectile through the clothing, flesh, and bone to hit the important bits - the bits that stop fights.

Granted, no hit will ever increase the morale of your target, but only good hits that go deep enough will stop threats reliably.

Also, I haven’t see any shotguns in the hands of any of the three letter agencies in a loooong time. It’s all carbines and sub-guns.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

1 minute ago, High Exposure said:

It’s all about penetration Ray, not number of hits.

All the hits in the world don’t matter if you cant get the projectile through the clothing, flesh, and bone to hit the important bits - the bits that stop fights.

Granted, no hit will ever increase the morale of your target, but only good hits that go deep enough will stop threats reliably.

You hit a dude dead center in the chest with:

Slug:  dead

00Buck: dead

#4Buck:  dead

 

[High Exposure 5,661]

Ok.

horse->water=/=drink

[bhunted 887]

Burp


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Ray Ray 3,566]

33 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

Ok.

horse->water=/=drink

Home Defense!  We talking Defensa del hogar!

We are not talking about any other uses.