Otto 0 Posted June 12, 2015 Hello fellow LAW ABIDING New Jersey gun owners, A few months ago I got my Firearms ID card, I brought a friend of mine (best friend for 13+ years) to the Range, (Quinton Sportsmens Club; Best open range in South Jersey maybe the entire state. Hey fellow members!)... Anyway, when he was 16 his parents (for disciplinary reasons) sent him to a psych ward for a week for mental evaluation or whatever they do, and I was wondering what the process would be for him to get an ID card. Is this going to be a difficult process for him? Does he need to go to a doctor and get a mental evaluation test? Any response or comments are welcome. He's not crazy, he was a teenager rebelling (as we all do), he's not crazy, has never been arrested. Best friend for 13+ years. A twist to said subject is that he is also on anti-depressant medication, he went to his doctor for a routine checkup and he said he was mad and they put him on these anti-depressants. This is recent, within the past two (2) years. I said this would be another hurdle to jump over, I told him over a year ago to get off that shit. You know the doctors get kick-backs for prescribing these pills? So I don't think he needs them, the doctors just said, 'here this is a prescription for whatever and take this.' So, what is this guy going to have to do to get an ID card? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted June 12, 2015 Consult with a firearm law savvy lawyer first and foremost. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10X 3,296 Posted June 12, 2015 You know the doctors get kick-backs for prescribing these pills? So I don't think he needs them, the doctors just said, 'here this is a prescription for whatever and take this.' Not so much; since 2013, anything over $10 to the doctor is reported, and there aren't a whole lot of antidepressants, long generic, that aren't available at Walmart for $4/month. There is not enough money in that part of the system to justify much effort to bend the rules. I'd imagine there will be some hoops to jump through for your friend to get a permit, but I don't know what they are. It's entirely possible that he shouldn't be in this position, but once a person has a psych ward commitment in their past, there should be a few hoops to jump through. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ogfarmer 138 Posted June 12, 2015 lawyer up, recent legislation broadened whats reported to mental health records and nics now and certain meds are automatic dis-qualifiers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djg0770 481 Posted June 12, 2015 Lawyer. And get one who's a firearms attorney and not Jacoby and Meyers... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,262 Posted June 12, 2015 when i was 16, and tried the rebellious teenager thing, i got my ass whooped. funny how that straightened me out. that said........your best bet is to contact mr nappen, or another firearms savvy lawyer for this question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted June 12, 2015 I wouldn't want your crazy friend to have access to firearms. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,262 Posted June 12, 2015 if the guy's had nothing happen since then, he's prolly ok. if he's one of those guys that's like "thank god i had my gun on me, 'cause i'd have kicked a guys ass", then i'd be worried, because that shows anger management problems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seamusSU 0 Posted June 12, 2015 You know the doctors get kick-backs for prescribing these pills? So I don't think he needs them, the doctors just said, 'here this is a prescription for whatever and take this.' Not so much; since 2013, anything over $10 to the doctor is reported, and there aren't a whole lot of antidepressants, long generic, that aren't available at Walmart for $4/month. There is not enough money in that part of the system to justify much effort to bend the rules. I'm glad someone said that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nu2gunz 22 Posted June 12, 2015 You know the doctors get kick-backs for prescribing these pills? So I don't think he needs them, the doctors just said, 'here this is a prescription for whatever and take this.' Actually, no. Read up on the "Stark Laws". That has been illegal for decades. Thanks for the sweeping generalization. Have there been some who abuse that? Sure there have, just like there are those that abuse many other laws. As to the "they have to report anything over $10 since 2013" that is 100% false. That has nothing to do with "kickbacks". That has to do with Pharm companies paying for trips and dinners. There are honest people out there. As far as whether or not your friend needs those meds or not. That is between him and his doctor, but if he does need them, and doesn't take them, I wouldn't want him in possession of a fire arm. Ever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,262 Posted June 12, 2015 Actually, no. Read up on the "Stark Laws". That has been illegal for decades. Thanks for the sweeping generalization. Have there been some who abuse that? Sure there have, just like there are those that abuse many other laws. As to the "they have to report anything over $10 since 2013" that is 100% false. That has nothing to do with "kickbacks". That has to do with Pharm companies paying for trips and dinners. There are honest people out there. As far as whether or not your friend needs those meds or not. That is between him and his doctor, but if he does need them, and doesn't take them, I wouldn't want him in possession of a fire arm. Ever. ever watch "why i ran"? i watched it last night. there was a lady that lead police on a nearly 30 mile chase. first in her own car, then when they flattened her tires, she faked having a gun, and stole a police cruiser. they finally cornered her. all because she was off her meds for paranoia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otto 0 Posted June 14, 2015 Thanks for all the responses but doctors do get kick backs for putting people on these pills; http://www.wthr.com/story/29267597/whistleblowers-allege-drug-kickbacks-for-local-doctors Related, not pills but other shit- I found this after searching google for about a minute. Doctors get kick backs, thats how it works. http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2015/06/4_nj_doctors_chiropractor_indicted_in_medical_kick.html I wouldn't want your crazy friend to have access to firearms. He's not crazy, I don't know wtf his parents were thinking. Real fucked up shit they did that will stick with him for life that isn't fair. when i was 16, and tried the rebellious teenager thing, i got my ass whooped. funny how that straightened me out. that said........your best bet is to contact mr nappen, or another firearms savvy lawyer for this question. Again, he wasn't crazy. He was a teenager, no trouble just acting up, his parents did a shitty thing (that at the time) didnt realize it would stick with him forever. if the guy's had nothing happen since then, he's prolly ok. if he's one of those guys that's like "thank god i had my gun on me, 'cause i'd have kicked a guys ass", then i'd be worried, because that shows anger management problems. He's never been arrested, has no thoughts of "OMG that mother-fucker needs to die" shit, I'd think he's somewhat on the submissive side... I wouldn't want your crazy friend to have access to firearms. He's not crazy. Anyway thanks for all the replies.OK So after all that what lawyer should this guy see? Any recommendations? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted June 14, 2015 Call Evan Nappen's firm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otto 0 Posted June 14, 2015 Call Evan Nappen's firm. Is that a credible law firm? I'm guessing so since you mention it. Someone mentioned not "Jacoby and Meyers"... Its funny I'm probably doing more information research than my buddy, because he is a good guy, and doesnt have much time, working 3 jobs. Doing him a favor. Yea this guy is working 3 jobs, prescribed pills that he doesn't need, parents fucked his shit up for his life. Talked about getting his record expunged. But then the prescribed pills that get a kickback ( I don't care what you say these doctors are getting kickbacks, I can post articles supporting my position)... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nu2gunz 22 Posted June 14, 2015 You're right. Because you find a couple of article, on the internet, which never has false information, saying that some doctors got illegal kickbacks, it absolutely 100% means all doctors get them, right?? How do you know you're friend isn't "crazy"? You're not a doctor, and your opinion won't hold up in the court of law. Have your friend talk to an attorney. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nu2gunz 22 Posted June 14, 2015 But then the prescribed pills that get a kickback ( I don't care what you say these doctors are getting kickbacks, I can post articles supporting my position)... Yes, please post the articles supporting the fact that this particular patient's doctors got kickbacks for prescribing this particular patient these meds. I don't expect this type of stuff on this type of forums. It's basically like on other forums that say that anyone who wants to "play with guns" is going to walk into a public place and start shooting people up, so we need more gun control. Yes, some people do illegal things, but not everyone. MOST doctors are ethical, hard working, law abiding citizens. Just like the people here who purchase guns legally and are responsible, law abiding citizens. Right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otto 0 Posted June 14, 2015 You're right. Because you find a couple of article, on the internet, which never has false information, saying that some doctors got illegal kickbacks, it absolutely 100% means all doctors get them, right?? How do you know you're friend isn't "crazy"? You're not a doctor, and your opinion won't hold up in the court of law. Have your friend talk to an attorney. Would you like 100 articles about doctors getting arrested/charged for kickbacks? I've known him for 13+ years.... I've since told him he's going to need to talk to a lawyer. http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2015/06/4_nj_doctors_chiropractor_indicted_in_medical_kick.html http://patch.com/new-jersey/westorange/two-west-orange-doctors-indicted-kickback-scheme/ http://tbo.com/news/crime/feds-tampa-man-once-again-taking-workers-comp-kickbacks-20150609/ http://njtoday.net/2015/06/07/five-medical-practitioners-accused-of-taking-kickbacks/ http://nypost.com/2015/06/05/doctor-at-center-of-silver-scandal-sues-columbia-for-firing-him/ http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/doctor-prescribing-studies-51253/ http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-doctor-kickback-criminal-charge-met-20150205-story.html#page=1 http://gulfnews.com/news/uae/general/how-your-doctor-gets-kickbacks-for-prescriptions-1.1217821 http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/04/health/policy/04doctors.html http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/30/novartis-kickbacks-idUSL2N0RV1GK20140930 http://www.app.com/story/news/crime/jersey-mayhem/2014/06/12/nj-doctor-sentenced-cash-kickbacks-conviction/10391937/ http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-doctors-body-will-ask-medical-practitioners-to-stay-away-from-kickbacks-2044912 http://www.dailyrecord.com/story/news/crime/2014/05/16/florham-park-doctor-gets-prison-kickbacks-referrals-scam/2186862/ http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/las-vegas-doctor-accused-taking-kickbacks-refer-patients-agency http://www.fiercepharma.com/story/feds-cracking-down-doctor-kickbacks/2009-03-05 medicalxpress.com/news/2015-01-fines-japanese-pharma-mn-doctor.html http://www.examiner.com/article/sanctions-for-doctor-who-took-kickbacks http://news.yahoo.com/novartis-ordered-face-u-lawsuit-over-doctor-kickbacks-173750673--finance.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/07/13/ivf_loans_predatory_lending_hits_the_fertility_market.html http://www.wthr.com/story/29267597/whistleblowers-allege-drug-kickbacks-for-local-doctors Have you guys not heard of this? This is only 2 pages of google search. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nu2gunz 22 Posted June 14, 2015 Would you like 100 articles about doctors getting arrested/charged for kickbacks? Yes, please. Arrested or charged doesn't mean convicted. Innocent until proven guilty? One hundred doctors vs. the tens of thousands of doctors in this country, right? Kind of like what people think about us gun people? A few bad apples, so we're all bad. Is that what you're saying? I'm not here to change your mind. I'm arguing your claim to make a point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otto 0 Posted June 14, 2015 Yes, please. Arrested or charged doesn't mean convicted. Innocent until proven guilty? One hundred doctors vs. the tens of thousands of doctors in this country, right? Kind of like what people think about us gun people? A few bad apples, so we're all bad. Is that what you're saying? I'm not here to change your mind. I'm arguing your claim to make a point. See my post above, theres more just do a simple google search "Doctors Kickbacks"; Hundreds of different doctors. Yes I agree all doctors are not bad. Theres always bad apples in the bunch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handyman 5,682 Posted June 14, 2015 Docs don't get kickbacks for meds. They get kickbacks for referrals - to labs, imaging centers, other providers, etc. Your buddy's happy pills are not lining anyone's pocket. And you don't get SSRIs by telling a doc you are angry. Something is bad with his story. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nu2gunz 22 Posted June 14, 2015 Yes I agree all doctors are not bad. Theres always bad apples in the bunch. Thanks. You were alluding to the fact the only reason your friend got the meds was so that his doctors could make money off of him. Whether that is true or not, you aren't a doctor and have no earthly idea whether your friend needs them or not medically. Do you actually have proof of this? Was your friend's doctors in one those articles you posted? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otto 0 Posted June 14, 2015 Docs don't get kickbacks for meds. They get kickbacks for referrals - to labs, imaging centers, other providers, etc. Your buddy's happy pills are not lining anyone's pocket. And you don't get SSRIs by telling a doc you are angry. Something is bad with his story. He told me he went to the doctors and said he was angry and they gave him a prescription for Celexa. Does he need it? Probably not, but its a way for pharmaceutical companies and insurance to make money. Thanks. You were alluding to the fact the only reason your friend got the meds was so that his doctors could make money off of him. Whether that is true or not, you aren't a doctor and have no earthly idea whether your friend needs them or not medically. Do you actually have proof of this? Was your friend's doctors in one those articles you posted? I don't think he needs them. I have no clue why he's "angry". He could be upset about some stuff but I really don't know why he's taking this shit. I told him to stop taking them over a year ago. Maybe there is something he's not telling me but we're pretty close so I'd think he'd tell me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nu2gunz 22 Posted June 14, 2015 Docs don't get kickbacks for meds. They get kickbacks for referrals - to labs, imaging centers, other providers, etc. No they don't. That's also illegal. There are some that have, but most know that they won't risk their livelihood for a few extra bucks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nu2gunz 22 Posted June 14, 2015 He told me he went to the doctors and said he was angry and they gave him a prescription for Celexa. Does he need it? Probably not, but its a way for pharmaceutical companies and insurance to make money. Wow, so I guess doctors aren't looking out for the well being of their patients just to make the insurance companies and pharm companies money. Is that it? And if your friend actually has a mental health issue? Let's forget about that for a moment.Oh wait! Let's not, as he's trying to get a permit to purchase a fire arm!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nu2gunz 22 Posted June 14, 2015 I don't think he needs them. I have no clue why he's "angry". He could be upset about some stuff but I really don't know why he's taking this shit. I told him to stop taking them over a year ago. Maybe there is something he's not telling me but we're pretty close so I'd think he'd tell me. LOL, I can't imagine you don't realize how dangerous what you are doing can be. Don't give out medical advice. You are causing more harm than you realize by trying to be a friend in this situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otto 0 Posted June 14, 2015 Wow, so I guess doctors aren't looking out for the well being of their patients just to make the insurance companies and pharm companies money. Is that it? And if your friend actually has a mental health issue? Let's forget about that for a moment.Oh wait! Let's not, as he's trying to get a permit to purchase a fire arm!!! Are you serious? You don't think they prescribe pills just to make money and just dope people up on meds? I think I'm the only person in my circle that isnt on some kind of pill. Also if they dope everyone up on pills they can't buy firearms (that goes into federal government and a whole other discussion.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otto 0 Posted June 14, 2015 LOL, I can't imagine you don't realize how dangerous what you are doing can be. Don't give out medical advice. You are causing more harm than you realize by trying to be a friend in this situation. I like how you act like you know this guy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nu2gunz 22 Posted June 14, 2015 The five pills a day I take keep me alive. If it weren't for them, I would have stroked out long ago and not been able to continue to watch my children grow up. Bad genetics are a real bitch. I like how you think you know what mental illness is and have the expertise to give any advice to anyone on the matter. Keep up those conspiracy theories, though. Meds only exist to make money off people. They don't help anyone. Just like guns only exist to give criminals weapons. Please. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otto 0 Posted June 14, 2015 If you didn't know, they're doping up EVERYONE with some kind of pill if they're under 30, or over 30, how many people do you know that arn't taking some kind of prescription pill? You disagree that doping up the population and having a record of such would be an automatic red flag for FID? Why does the federal government want to pass more laws on guns? (especially mental health) Its not a "conspiracy" if its the truth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djg0770 481 Posted June 14, 2015 Oh my, this is the first time in my life I have heard where the medically diagnosed crazy person insists he's not crazy. Furthermore, he continues to take his meds, but you're encouraging him not to despite the fact that a) you're not an MD and b) you have not known him from BEFORE he took those meds. You do realize that there are actually cases where people DO need the meds they are prescribed... oh wait, you're like Tom Cruise. Got it. Nevermind. I'll stop talking now so that you can tell us how your diagnosis was made and exactly what technical experience YOU personally have to judge someone as sane or not, in need of meds, or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites