Need gun/crime statistics

[jglass38 0]

Hey all.  I am having an online debate about gun crime/control and someone post a Mother Jones article that I am looking for arguments against.  Does anyone have some links saved they can post?

 

Here is the article: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check

 

 

Thanks!

 

Jamie

 

 

[Nu2gunz 22]

How about this:

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/335739/facts-about-mass-shootings-john-fund

[Kevin125 4,772]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

 

Intentional homicide rate.  A good barometer of the frequency per capita of violent crime.  I know it's Wikipedia but... it's something.

 

sort by "Rate".  Highest to Lowest

 

USA is 111th of 218 countries.

[DirtyDigz 1,811]

Spend some time clicking the links in the mother jones article to chase down the sources, and suddenly they sound much less impressive:

 

Mother Jones:

 

 

Fact-check: Drivers who carry guns are 44% more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77% more likely to follow them aggressively.

 

Source:

 

 

Data come from a 2004 national random digit dial survey of over 2,400 licensed drivers. Respondents were asked whether, in the past year, they (1) made obscene or rude gestures at another motorist, (2) aggressively followed another vehicle too closely, and (3) were victims of such hostile behaviors.

RESULTS:

Seventeen percent admitted making obscene or rude gestures, and 9% had aggressively followed too closely. Forty-six percent reported victimization by each of these behaviors in the past year. Males, young adults, binge drinkers, those who do not believe most people can be trusted, those ever arrested for a non-traffic violation, and motorists who had been in a vehicle in which there was a gun were more likely to engage in such forms of road rage.

 

So, over 10 years ago they randomly dialed 0.00082% of the population (2400 people out of a 2004 national population of 292.8 Million) and those people who decided to spend time with a random cold-call survey spouted off their feelings/opinions.  What are the chances that someone who had no encounters with road rage would say "no, don't have time for this, bye" vs. someone who had encountered road rage and was looking to vent?  Any chance for respondent bias there, you think?. 

 

What was the geographic distribution?  Was it even, or did they talk to 2399 people from Chicago and 1 guy from Nebraska?

 

Actual FACTS (police reports, FBI/DOJ crime statistics) used in this *SURVEY* - ZERO. 

 

Some fact-check.....

[Nu2gunz 22]

Spend some time clicking the links in the mother jones article to chase down the sources, and suddenly they sound much less impressive:

 

Mother Jones:

 

 

Source:

 

 

So, over 10 years ago they randomly dialed 0.00082% of the population (2400 people out of a 2004 national population of 292.8 Million) and those people who decided to spend time with a random cold-call survey spouted off their feelings/opinions.  What are the chances that someone who had no encounters with road rage would say "no, don't have time for this, bye" vs. someone who had encountered road rage and was looking to vent?  Any chance for respondent bias there, you think?. 

 

What was the geographic distribution?  Was it even, or did they talk to 2399 people from Chicago and 1 guy from Nebraska?

 

Actual FACTS (police reports, FBI/DOJ crime statistics) used in this *SURVEY* - ZERO. 

 

Some fact-check.....

 

Cherry picking at it's finest. Statistics can say anything you want them to say if you dig deep enough. It's also a matter of causality.

 

I had a heart attack and I drink lots of water. Damn it!!! Water causes heart attacks!!!!

[jglass38 0]

Thanks for all the links.  I actually found the TTAG response to the exact article and it debunked the whole thing.  

[Kevin125 4,772]

Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates. Also, gun death rates tend to be higher in states with higher rates of gun ownership. Gun death rates are generally lower in states with restrictions such as assault-weapons bans or safe-storage requirements. Update: A recent study looking at 30 years of homicide data in all 50 states found that for every one percent increase in a state's gun ownership rate, there is a nearly one percent increase in its firearm homicide rate.

 

 

Their point above is completely asinine.  That's like arguing in states with more people... you'll find more people.  Not to mention the source is horribly biased.

[mikelets456 78]

One of the best places listed by headline and topic

http://www.gunfacts.info

[Nu2gunz 22]

One of the best places listed by headline and topic

http://www.gunfacts.info

 I took a look at this site and it is certainly interesting. I find their "facts" a little erroneous. I'm trying to find where a read that the statistic about gun owning citizens preventing 2.4 million crimes a year is a big pile of BS. There is no way that is true, and constantly quoting that on that website makes the other stats seem illegitimate, even if they are true.  

[CMJeepster 2,777]

Shocker that Camden is on the list yet again:

 

"Using data from a report by Neighborhood Scout on dangerous cities, coupled with data from the FBI website, we created a list of the most dangerous cities in America."

 

http://www.cheatsheet.com/business/the-10-most-dangerous-cities-in-america.html/8/

[mikelets456 78]

 I took a look at this site and it is certainly interesting. I find their "facts" a little erroneous. I'm trying to find where a read that the statistic about gun owning citizens preventing 2.4 million crimes a year is a big pile of BS. There is no way that is true, and constantly quoting that on that website makes the other stats seem illegitimate, even if they are true.  

try this site:

 

http://crimepreventionresearchcenter.org/data/

 

 

Ludwig cooke study:

 

http://home.uchicago.edu/ludwigj/papers/JQC-CookLudwig-DefensiveGunUses-1998.pdf

[Kevin125 4,772]

I recall Camden being a one-time murder capital of the world.

 

What's going on in Chester, PA to make that list?  I fly into Chester County Airport every now and then.  Seems nice enough.

[siderman 1,137]

One of the best places listed by headline and topic

http://www.gunfacts.info

great site- one of my bookmarks

[CMJeepster 2,777]

I recall Camden being a one-time murder capital of the world.

 

What's going on in Chester, PA to make that list?  I fly into Chester County Airport every now and then.  Seems nice enough.

Chester County is different than Chester proper.  Chester has been a shithole as long as I can recall (40 years).  The joke in my family was that you never really come to a complete stop in Chester, you just take your foot off the gas.

[RootSki 5]

Chester County is different than Chester proper.  Chester has been a shithole as long as I can recall (40 years).  The joke in my family was that you never really come to a complete stop in Chester, you just take your foot off the gas.

Except when there's Union games.  Then it's hipster central for a few hours, but only around PPL park.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Only an idiot would spend the time necessary to argue with a Fool..................   and you'll just get dirty in the process.

 

Statistics can be bent any way one wants the answer to look, if you try hard enough.  

 

If you want REAL information, join a private shooting club and hang-out with the smartest Shootists you can find.  It's a LOT cleaner and you'll have fun and learn things at the same time!

[mikelets456 78]

Only an idiot would spend the time necessary to argue with a Fool..................   and you'll just get dirty in the process.

 

Statistics can be bent any way one wants the answer to look, if you try hard enough.  

 

If you want REAL information, join a private shooting club and hang-out with the smartest Shootists you can find.  It's a LOT cleaner and you'll have fun and learn things at the same time!

 

 

I disagree. I believe it's worth his time to respond not because of the ignorant left wing looney to "get it" but for the casual reader browsing the site to see the "other side" of the argument...AKA, the truth. I was one of those anti-gun people back in 2008 until I started to research why so many people were buying guns. I came across several site which "enlightened" me to the truth and here I am continuing to go on these left wing/progressive sites, facebook, etc to spread the truth to other casual readers. We all need to be doing this if we want to continue to spread the truth and protect freedom from extinction.

[mipafox 438]

I second the Chester shithole for decades. I have stories about the Chester shithole from decades ago.

[NickySantoro 211]

Good luck with your project. That being said, the antis don't like guns and are afraid of them. They don't want one. Since they don't want one they don't want you to have one. Facts mean nothing to them. In the face of a threat they will cower and beg and wish to force you to do the same so as to diminish their cowardice.

[gleninjersey 2,139]

I disagree. I believe it's worth his time to respond not because of the ignorant left wing looney to "get it" but for the casual reader browsing the site to see the "other side" of the argument...AKA, the truth. I was one of those anti-gun people back in 2008 until I started to research why so many people were buying guns. I came across several site which "enlightened" me to the truth and here I am continuing to go on these left wing/progressive sites, facebook, etc to spread the truth to other casual readers. We all need to be doing this if we want to continue to spread the truth and protect freedom from extinction.

Very interesting, Do you recall anything in particular that changed your mind?

 

My wife wasn't anti but she was oppossed to having a gun in thed house. I did't push it. Fast forward to a few years ago. We were at a Christmas party. I was talking to the wife of the host and we started talking about politics, guns and how I wanted to have one but my wife was against the idea.

 

She said, "Go get your wife." I brought my wife over and she told us how many years ago she was at home with their young children. Her husband was away traveling for business. It was middle of day and they were upstairs. She thought she heard sommething downstairs but dismissed it as nothing. Then she heard voices whispering and saw shadows moving.

 

She grabbed the phone and called 911. Grabbed her husbands handgun and yelled downstairs, "I've got a gun. Get out of my house! The cops are on the way!"

 

She then tokd.us how she heard people (more than 1) scurrying to get out. The 911 was on the phone reassuring her that help was on the way. The officers were enroute and would there in a few minutes......After what seemed an eternity fhe police did arrive. Thiefs had broke one the basement windows and come up through the basement.

 

She looked at my wife and said if she hadn't had that gun she didn't know what may have happened to her or their children. The story made the hair on the back of my neck stand up! My wife looked at me and said, "Go get your gun."

[gleninjersey 2,139]

You don't need statistics. Listen to this link of a 911 call as woman waits on the phone with 911 operator as police are on their way as her home is being broken into by a stalker.

 

 

Post that.

[CMJeepster 2,777]

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/top-lists/highest-murder-rate-cities/

 

Rank / City
 

10 / Newark, NJ
8 / Trenton, NJ

2 / Camden, NJ

 

------

 

3 in the top 10, yet ordinary, law-abiding citizens have no legal means to carry a firearm to protect ourselves.

[mikelets456 78]

Very interesting, Do you recall anything in particular that changed your mind?

 

My wife wasn't anti but she was oppossed to having a gun in thed house. I did't push it. Fast forward to a few years ago. We were at a Christmas party. I was talking to the wife of the host and we started talking about politics, guns and how I wanted to have one but my wife was against the idea.

 

She said, "Go get your wife." I brought my wife over and she told us how many years ago she was at home with their young children. Her husband was away traveling for business. It was middle of day and they were upstairs. She thought she heard sommething downstairs but dismissed it as nothing. Then she heard voices whispering and saw shadows moving.

 

She grabbed the phone and called 911. Grabbed her husbands handgun and yelled downstairs, "I've got a gun. Get out of my house! The cops are on the way!"

 

She then tokd.us how she heard people (more than 1) scurrying to get out. The 911 was on the phone reassuring her that help was on the way. The officers were enroute and would there in a few minutes......After what seemed an eternity fhe police did arrive. Thiefs had broke one the basement windows and come up through the basement.

 

She looked at my wife and said if she hadn't had that gun she didn't know what may have happened to her or their children. The story made the hair on the back of my neck stand up! My wife looked at me and said, "Go get your gun."

 

 

Scary story and if that does not convince anyone I don't know what will. Quite honestly I don't recall exactly what convinced me but the more I heard the MSM ridicule all of "these crazy people buying guns in record numbers" I was completely caught off guard and curious as to why. Even though my wife and I were anti-gun we were wondering why Matt Lauer and Katie Couric were in a tirad about these "crazy people". (No, I do not watch them---I woke up).  My wife and I researched and as we came across several sites they talked about history, crime, how Stalin and other tyrants took guns and why. One point i do remember and I use quite often was how close to 200 MILLION innocent people were killed when guns banned or confiscated. I was totally intrigued by that statistic and researched more and more----to this day I continue to brush up on the facts, myth's, etc because these people continue to find new ways of twisting the truth.

[gleninjersey 2,139]

Scary story and if that does not convince anyone I don't know what will. Quite honestly I don't recall exactly what convinced me but the more I heard the MSM ridicule all of "these crazy people buying guns in record numbers" I was completely caught off guard and curious as to why. Even though my wife and I were anti-gun we were wondering why Matt Lauer and Katie Couric were in a tirad about these "crazy people". (No, I do not watch them---I woke up). My wife and I researched and as we came across several sites they talked about history, crime, how Stalin and other tyrants took guns and why. One point i do remember and I use quite often was how close to 200 MILLION innocent people were killed when guns banned or confiscated. I was totally intrigued by that statistic and researched more and more----to this day I continue to brush up on the facts, myth's, etc because these people continue to find new ways of twisting the truth.

 

Good for you and welcome "to the other side". Good luck winning others over.

 

 

I've only converted one fence sitter to a certified FID and gun owner (so far). It can be done.