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Newtonian

Does eliminating this iconic symbol achieve anything? (or What's this world coming to?)

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IT'S NOT ILLEGAL! You can be offended and complain all your sorry self wants, but guess what? Cops can't so anything! Calling 911 over this is a waste of tax payer's money and ties up resources. This man should be charged for tying up emergency personnel.

 

If you can defend this waste of oxygen with a strait face, you are part of the problem.

 

The Flea Market was on privately owned property. If the market was on public/city owned land, it actually IS illegal to sell hate items like that. 

 

Sorry if my beliefs aren't in line with yours, but that doesn't mean I'm part of the problem. Maybe THAT'S the problem. Settle down, man. I've got no beef with you. 

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Who deems something a "hate item." How does an object posses hate?

 

The idea that objects need to be censored is a problem. So yes, you are.

 

So you don't believe in any kind of censorship of any kind? Please.

 

I love this argument because I don't think you realize just how censored you actually are. Yet, here you are giving me crap because of a difference of opinion. So I'm the problem, because you'd rather censor my views and make sure you're views are the ones that prevail. Can't you see the irony??? 

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There are nazi items in my house right now. They are war trophies from family members who served in ww2. Guess what, that doesn't mean I support nazi's

 

No it doesn't. You aren't selling Nazi paraphernalia that were made recently on a table at a market, though, are you? You aren't purchasing Nazi paraphernalia that were made recently, though are you? Do you purchase neo nazi propaganda? 

 

Come on, let's actually use our brains in this discussion. You can make up any example you wish about whatever you want to strengthen an argument. You want to have Nazi stuff in your house, I really couldn't care less, to be perfectly honest. Sell those items in an open market, well, that just might stir things up a bit. I would ask you about them, and if you tell me they are heirlooms from killed Nazi soldiers, I think you and I would have a great conversation, as I'm somewhat of a history buff. Sell to promote hate, in a publicly owned market, yep, I would have some problems with that. I'll be part of the problem in that case. 

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Newtonian has invoked Godwin's Law. Sheesh! 

 

So you're saying it's okay to sell Nazi paraphernalia?

 

And if we live in this great country, aren't we free to complain about it if we want to? 

 

I'm sorry, but why would anyone sell this stuff, other than to propagate hate? Is there any other reason to own Nazi flags and symbols? Unless you're one to do WWII re-enactment like some that do that for the Civil War. 

 

If I saw a kiosk selling Swastikas and other Nazi tchotchkes, I think it would make me VERY nervous. 

 

Truth be told. we DON'T live in a country where you can openly sell those kinds of things without some level of scrutiny. And that's a bad thing???

Here we go again. A member of a 2nd Amendment forum having no concept of the 1st Amendment.

 

"Is there any other reason to own Nazi flags and symbols" sounds an awful lot like "Nobody needs an **assault weapon** whose only purpose is to kill!!" Or "How many guns do you really need?"

 

Numerous writers have explained the philosophy behind the 1st Amendment much more eloquently than I ever could. But let me summarize for you: It's nobody's flippin' business if I own a swastika, photos of Hitler, or a Confederate flag. Nobody ever needs to give a reason for owning or displaying these things. 

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Here we go again. A member of a 2nd Amendment forum having no concept of the 1st Amendment.

 

"Is there any other reason to own Nazi flags and symbols" sounds an awful lot like "Nobody needs an **assault weapon** whose only purpose is to kill!!" Or "How many guns do you really need?"

 

Numerous writers have explained the philosophy behind the 1st Amendment much more eloquently than I ever could. But let me summarize for you: It's nobody's flippin' business if I own a swastika, photos of Hitler, or a Confederate flag. Nobody ever needs to give a reason for owning or displaying these things. 

 

Here we go again, someone who is a member of a 2nd Amendment forum, talking about the 1st Amendment with no earthly idea of what the Law of the Land actually says. Well done. 

 

You must have missed the part where it is ILLEGAL to sell these items on public land. 1st Amendment not withstanding. Whether you believe it or not, whether you think it is right or not, it's the LAW. You don't need a reason to display anything you want. Of course not, but that's not what this is about. 

 

Go ahead and fly that Nazi flag in a synagogue on a Saturday morning. No problem. It's your right because you said so. 

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Go to the next gun show and the Philadelphia armory and see the mass amount of nazi memorabilia.

 

No thanks. And if that's what's being displayed at gun shows, you wonder why there is a stigma against guns. Big surprise there. 

 

Honestly, folks, I came to these forums to learn about the issues and to get more experience around gun owners. As much as I support the right to bear arms and the issues in being able to own fire arms in NJ, some of the interactions I've had on these forums shows me why there are so many out there who are trying to suppress these rights. Change requires more than "because I said so, and because it written down in a 200 year old document". The arguments I've read on these forums from some people are down right shocking. If that's the ammunition used to try to secure the long term health of the 2nd Amendment, well, good luck with that. That's not how politics works, and like it or not, that's what we have to deal with. 

 

I fully intend to continue with my fire arm education and learning to be safe around them. Maybe even be a proficient shooter eventually. Some here have REALLY turned me off, though. Good riddance to me, I guess. 

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You must have missed the part where it is ILLEGAL to sell these items on public land. 1st Amendment not withstanding. Whether you believe it or not, whether you think it is right or not, it's the LAW. You don't need a reason to display anything you want. Of course not, but that's not what this is about. 

 

Go ahead and fly that Nazi flag in a synagogue on a Saturday morning. No problem. It's your right because you said so. 

It may be illegal to sell Nazi paraphernalia in Europe but I doubt it's illegal here. Can you please cite something? Where are there privately owned stores on public lands? OK let's say a sandwich shop in a national park. I guess then the owner of the land, who leases the store to the private operator, has the right to tell them they can't sell certain things that are otherwise legal.

 

That's far from the point here; nor is there anything to the "swastika in a synagogue" comment. This thread is not about blatantly insulting people on their home turf which legal or not is in this case horrendously distasteful. .

 

The question is whether the display of a Nazi symbol and a confederate flag by a private vendor at a privately-run flea market is cause for calling the police, and cause for them to show up. That's it.

 

I say no on both counts. 

 

Hey I saw slingshots for sale at a recent outdoor sale. Now they are definitely illegal in this state. Nobody had a canary and called the police.

 

But don't worry pal. Within a few years it will be de facto if not de jure illegal to do those things. 

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No thanks. And if that's what's being displayed at gun shows, you wonder why there is a stigma against guns. Big surprise there. 

 

Honestly, folks, I came to these forums to learn about the issues and to get more experience around gun owners. As much as I support the right to bear arms and the issues in being able to own fire arms in NJ, some of the interactions I've had on these forums shows me why there are so many out there who are trying to suppress these rights. Change requires more than "because I said so, and because it written down in a 200 year old document". The arguments I've read on these forums from some people are down right shocking. If that's the ammunition used to try to secure the long term health of the 2nd Amendment, well, good luck with that. That's not how politics works, and like it or not, that's what we have to deal with. 

 

I fully intend to continue with my fire arm education and learning to be safe around them. Maybe even be a proficient shooter eventually. Some here have REALLY turned me off, though. Good riddance to me, I guess. 

Don't be a lilting lily. Hang around and learn and get used to people disagreeing with you and calling you stuff. I was extremely inexperienced when I joined. It's been educational. I've been tarred and feathered on several occasions. Justifiably.

 

Also realize that this is a forum, not the official mirror, image, or likeness of the collected and assembled high exalted New Jersey pro 2A powers that be. This is not the official "face" of the NJ pro-gun movement. It's where a bunch of guys with similar interests go to gripe and discuss various issues.

 

With some exceptions, and with a few of what I believe are tactical errors, interactions with the public and/or legislative committees are fairly professional and on-message. 

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Don't be a lilting lily. Hang around and learn and get used to people disagreeing with you and calling you stuff. I was extremely inexperienced when I joined. It's been educational. I've been tarred and feathered on several occasions.

With some exceptions, and with a few of what I believe are tactical errors, interactions with the public and/or legislative committees are fairly professional and on-message.

 

Nu2gunz:

 

Plus, some of us enjoy provoking some of the folks in this forum to illicit a response, knowing full well that some will be quite adamant and explicit in espousing their particular point of view. We may be in the minority in this forum with some of our opinions but try not to loose your sense of humor. Debate is fun and intellectually healthy. I like to think that this type of dialogue is a learning experience for all of us, (who are willing to have an open mind and learn from each other). All the best!

 

AVB-AMG

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Don't be a lilting lily. Hang around and learn and get used to people disagreeing with you and calling you stuff. I was extremely inexperienced when I joined. It's been educational. I've been tarred and feathered on several occasions. Justifiably.

 

Also realize that this is a forum, not the official mirror, image, or likeness of the collected and assembled high exalted New Jersey pro 2A powers that be. This is not the official "face" of the NJ pro-gun movement. It's where a bunch of guys with similar interests go to gripe and discuss various issues.

 

With some exceptions, and with a few of what I believe are tactical errors, interactions with the public and/or legislative committees are fairly professional and on-message.

Newtonian, that's the smartest thing I've read all damn day.

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It may be illegal to sell Nazi paraphernalia in Europe but I doubt it's illegal here...  Hey I saw slingshots for sale at a recent outdoor sale. Now they are definitely illegal in this state. Nobody had a canary and called the police.

 

But don't worry pal. Within a few years it will be de facto if not de jure illegal to do those things. 

You can buy both at the Columbus market.

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Great article by one of my top 2-3 columnists:

 

By Wesley Pruden - The Washington Times - Monday, July 13, 2015

ANALYSIS/OPINION:

We’ll remember this as the summer the nation went mad. Lynch mobs are usually brought to the boil by a heinous event, encouraged by heat, humidity and harangue. There was a heinous event, now all but forgotten, but this is hardly a long, hot summer. There’s a drought in Southern California but June and July have been moderate and pleasant, with considerable rain, nearly everywhere else. Nevertheless, a lynch mob with tar, feathers, rails and ropes has been on the scout for somebody to harass, hurt or hang.

Mobs are usually raised from the ranks of the poor, the wretched and the hangers-on from the refuse of the shore, as in Emma Lazarus‘ famous poem at the Statue of Liberty. But not this time. The usual masters of successful rabble-rousing, Al Sharpton and the Rev. Jesse Jackson, have taken a holiday. We can’t blame them. The usual shouters on all sides have been strangely quiet.

This time the leaders are the “respectables,” as the elites imagine themselves: know-it-all academics, the usual pundits looking for attention, rectors and reverends and other divines out to get a few lines in the public prints, governors, senators, mayors and assorted politicians in pursuit of voters with unrequited grievances.

So far the mob hasn’t employed the rope, so far as we know, perhaps because the respectables don’t know how to tie an effective noose, and have contented themselves with digging up old soldiers in the South, changing street names, razing ancient statuary, throwing out politically incorrect stained glass at the cathedral in Washington that purports to represent the nation, all to eliminate the last traces of good men and true honored by the men and women of their generation.

The New York Times even tried to make a scandal of a new novel — a novel! — that draws a literary hero as an accurate representative of his times and place, as if the reviewer and her editors could not discern the difference between art and reality, fact or fiction.

No one can tell exactly what set off the mob. Some put the spark at the Emanuel Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina, where nine devout Christians of the African persuasion were mercilessly murdered by an apprentice barbarian with a gun. Photographs of him posing with Confederate and American flags, as if he understood any better than the respectables what those flags represent, put the mob in a frenzy of frothing-at-the-mouth anger. Suddenly there was breaking news from 1865, and the newspapers, television networks and everybody with a laptop were all over it. This was the revenge the Radical Republicans failed to exact at the end of a civil war that had morally and physically exhausted the people who fought it.

But the nine slain Christians have been all forgotten in the frenzy over Confederate relics and souvenirs. There are the inevitable demands that everything connected, even in demented minds, with the verboten past must be excised, expunged and forgotten. Memorials to founding fathers who owned slaves, including Washington, Madison and Jefferson among early presidents, are suddenly politically incorrect, and consideration must be given to doing “something” about them. A mob can always figure out “something.” Even the Stars and Stripes, which flew over undisturbed American slavery for nearly a century, might be altered to reflect “the real America,” perhaps with the rainbow which Barack Obama painted the White House.

The mob hysteria inevitably embraces the current presidential campaign, which has only 15 months to run. The current campaign must be concluded by November next year to make room for the beginning of the campaign of 2020, when Hillary is expected to make her third race as the inevitable president, perhaps with Chelsea as her running mate. The Clintons think big.

Donald Trump sets every respectable Republican’s hair on fire, makes his teeth itch and his hands reach for the smelling salts. Nearly all the 28 Republican presidential candidates, or whatever the current number is this morning, elbowing each other aside to get out of the old mob to get into the new one, are eager to throw a rock at the Donald. Buffoon or not, the Donald has got the number of the respectables, who come toWashington to do good and stay as long as they can do well.

The Republicans always talk a good game but rarely play one, satisfied after they get to Washington to follow the example of the Democrats they replace, to guard the inventory of their perks, surrounded by aides and go-fers to speak for them, listen for them and when necessary go to the toilet for them. All hat, as the Texans say, and no cattle.

• Wesley Pruden is editor emeritus of The Washington Times.

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So you don't believe in any kind of censorship of any kind? Please.

 

I love this argument because I don't think you realize just how censored you actually are. Yet, here you are giving me crap because of a difference of opinion. So I'm the problem, because you'd rather censor my views and make sure you're views are the ones that prevail. Can't you see the irony???

I can give you crap about what you say, but I never said make it illegal or bring up other ways to suppress your ideas.

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Here we go again, someone who is a member of a 2nd Amendment forum, talking about the 1st Amendment with no earthly idea of what the Law of the Land actually says. Well done. 

 

You must have missed the part where it is ILLEGAL to sell these items on public land. 1st Amendment not withstanding. Whether you believe it or not, whether you think it is right or not, it's the LAW. You don't need a reason to display anything you want. Of course not, but that's not what this is about. 

 

Go ahead and fly that Nazi flag in a synagogue on a Saturday morning. No problem. It's your right because you said so. 

 

Can you please post the law that says it is illegal to sell these things?

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If I saw a kiosk selling Swastikas and other Nazi tchotchkes, I think it would make me VERY nervous.

 

Truth be told. we DON'T live in a country where you can openly sell those kinds of things without some level of scrutiny. And that's a bad thing???

1. You being nervous that is your right. It is also YOUR problem, not the vendors.

 

2. We DO live in a country where you can sell whatever you like as long as it legal. Don't like whats being sold, Don't buy it. If enough people agree with you, guy will be out of business for lack of sales.

 

3. Yes government censorship is a bad thing.

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Lol General Lee toy cars from Dukes of Hazzard will be banned from having the iconic Confederate flag on their roofs.

 

Shit just got more real!

 

So I guess it takes approximately a month and a half for the panicked order to get to China, translated, confirmed, implemented and for the revised products to transit their way back to the US:

 

WP_20150715_008.jpg

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