NJ gun laws may ruin another persons life.

[carl_g 568]

Read what I said... It was *not* the law when I took driver's ed in NJ. It was not the law the last time I brushed up on NJ driver law. It already was the law in FL at that point, which is why I checked NJ to compare. Wasn't there yet.. But I started doing it anyway... because it makes sense.

Didn't you move?

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Didn't you move?

 

I did.

 

I'm temporarily back in NJ to oversee the sale of my townhouse.  But that's not the point. I still care about what happens in NJ, because as Anthony (GunForHire) always says, "What happens in NJ doesn't stay in NJ!" That, and I also still have family here, including my niece and nephew, whom I'm mentoring for 2A.  I don't want them to be burdened. I also don't want to see any of my new fellow Floridians suffer a similar fate... especially when there are easily available resources to learn about a states laws and all it takes is just a little effort to research them. I don't want to see another Shaneen Allen happen here. There's no excuse for it. We may not like the laws, we may think they're unconstitutional and should be repealed.  But while they're still on the books, we need to know them. and know how to avoid being trapped by them.

[PeteF 1,044]

And our point is, "they're very easy to learn...." if one just puts forth an effort and uses those resources I mentioned above... handgunlaw.us is one of the very best resources and is kept up to date.

 

The problem is, no one bothers to put forth that effort. They live in a "free state," and think the laws are the same everywhere, so they don't bother. They *need* to

yes, so easy to learn that police, prosecuters, judges and the legislators that wrote them have no idea what is legal or not. Keep telling yourself it is easy to understand.

 

Here answer these questions. Hollow points legal or illegal?

Can I use my spouses weapons without them being present?

Is this or that firearm legal in NJ?

 

Simple right?

[Kevin125 4,772]

I'm in contact with people from Texas and some midwest states fairly often. When I mention some of the asinine laws here they usually say something like... "Are you kidding me?! You have to show a some kind of permit to buy pistol ammo?" Or.... "You can't have a flash hider on your AR? WTF? You live in America?"

 

It just doesn't compute with most people from out of state. To them its like hearing that in NJ you need a special permit to drive a pickup truck. Guns aren't illegal in nearly every other state. Yeah... We pour over 2C like we're monks reading the bible. But if you don't live here or one of the other unconstitutional states, it's just not even going to occur to you that you could go to jail for having a gun with you while you do other shit. Especially if you rarely travel.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

yes, so easy to learn that police, prosecuters, judges and the legislators that wrote them have no idea what is legal or not. Keep telling yourself it is easy to understand.

 

Here answer these questions. Hollow points legal or illegal?   Restricted, per the enumerated exemptions listed in NJSA 2C: 39-3 f & g et seq.  ...

Can I use my spouses weapons without them being present? Depends, per  NJSA 2C: 58-3.1 but, intuitively, I wouldn't do it... not worth the risk. Prosecutors can interpret the law differently.

Is this or that firearm legal in NJ?  You'd have to specify the weapon.... But Evan Nappen's book and resources do a pretty good job of specifying, per NJSA 2C: 39-1w(1-5)...

 

Simple right?

 

You don't have to know all the details of NJ Gun law to know whether or not one should or shouldn't bring any weapons into NJ (or another "non free" state) in the first place. Or whether or not NJ (or other state) honors other "out of state" carry permits (NJ doesn't). Or how one should transport weapons if "transiting through" NJ. Or what actions are or aren't protected by FOPA. Or whether or not you are required to declare (voluntarily) your weapon to a NJ LEO.  All of these questions and answers are available on the resources I mentioned originally (handgunlaw.us and USACarry.com).   As a matter of fact, the NJ entry in Handgunlaw.us also answers 2 of the three questions you posed, above, or points you towards the NJ Statutes in question. 

 

Point being, the essential things you need to know (to keep you out of jail) are fairly easy to learn from the resources I specified, if one puts forth the effort to study them. Hopefully, the out of state visitor decides not to bring them (if staying long enough not to be protected by FOPA) and, in that case, one need not worry about all the other "details."

[HBecwithFn7 296]

It just doesn't compute with most people from out of state.

 

And my point is, "it should..."

 

 

...if you don't live here or one of the other unconstitutional states, it's just not even going to occur to you that you could go to jail for having a gun with you while you do other shit. Especially if you rarely travel.

 

In my younger days, I traveled all over the world. I've been to 6 of 7 continents.  But I knew enough to know that people do things differently, and that I should know very basic things about the laws of the country I'm visiting before I go there. The example I mentioned says it all.... "When you're busted for drugs over there, you're in for the hassle of your life..." 

 

Responsible gun ownership mandates the study of weapons laws anywhere one expects to travel or stay for any length of time. At least enough study to determine whether or not to bring them, or transport them, or use them.  It's that simple.

 

 

[PeteF 1,044]

You don't have to know all the details of NJ Gun law to know whether or not one should or shouldn't bring any weapons into NJ (or another "non free" state) in the first place. Or whether or not NJ (or other state) honors other "out of state" carry permits (NJ doesn't). Or how one should transport weapons if "transiting through" NJ. Or what actions are or aren't protected by FOPA. Or whether or not you are required to declare (voluntarily) your weapon to a NJ LEO. All of these questions and answers are available on the resources I mentioned originally (handgunlaw.us and USACarry.com). As a matter of fact, the NJ entry in Handgunlaw.us also answers 2 of the three questions you posed, above, or points you towards the NJ Statutes in question.

 

Point being, the essential things you need to know (to keep you out of jail) are fairly easy to learn from the resources I specified, if one puts forth the effort to study them. Hopefully, the out of state visitor decides not to bring them (if staying long enough not to be protected by FOPA) and, in that case, one need not worry about all the other "details."

Did you even read your posted responses?

Depends? Prosecuters interpret the law differently?

The illegal laws are written in complete jibberish intentionally to make exercising a right as painful as possible. When not knowing all of the law can mean the difference between arrest, huge court fees and imprisonment.

No knowing the minimum doesnt cut it. You should always have to hire a lawyer before doing something constutionally protected just to make sure you don't break any illegal laws. See man that got arrested because his flight got postponed at newark airport or may brian aikens? But hey they should have know better.

 

 

The mentality of you "should know the law, its your own fault" is a sack of shit. How about the legislators know the law (look up shall not be infringed) before making laws. Shouldn't the legislators know the law? Its real easy to look up.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Did you even read your posted responses?

Don't need to.... I "wrote" them... and I stand by them.

 

The illegal laws are written in complete jibberish intentionally to make exercising a right as painful as possible. When not knowing all of the law can mean the difference between arrest, huge court fees and imprisonment. No knowing the minimum doesnt cut it. You should always have to hire a lawyer before doing something constutionally protected just to make sure you don't break any illegal laws. See man that got arrested because his flight got postponed at newark airport or may brian aikens? But hey they should have know better.

Yes, they should have. And they could have, if they had studied it before they took those actions that got them arrested. Like "ignorance," "hatred of a law or a belief that it's 'unconstitutional' or wrong, or gibberish" is no excuse. It's still the law until changed. Your choices are 1) Obey it, or 2) risk the penalty. I'm not saying one shouldn't work to change laws they don't like or they feel violate their constitutional rights (and, yes, I absolutely agree that NJ gun laws suck big time), but while they are still in effect as laws, either obey them, or risk the penalty.

 

And, of course, know what they are, and what the penalties are, up front.

 

 

The mentality of you "should know the law, its your own fault" is a sack of shit.

How so?

 

How about the legislators know the law (look up shall not be infringed) before making laws. Shouldn't the legislators know the law? Its real easy to look up.

I think the legislators, most being lawyers themselves, know the law very well, and they know the system. They also know how to manipulate both to achieve their own objectives. And they think their constituents aren't smart enough (or brave enough) to stop them from doing what they want.  We'll see what Sen. Sweeney has to say in a few weeks...

 

Look, I get your frustration about the crappiness of NJ's laws. I think they're crappy too. I think they do violate our 2A rights. It's why I left the state (in part), because I don't think that will change for our benefit in the remainder of my lifetime. It's why none of my guns will ever see NJ soil, ever again!  Nonetheless, they are still the laws that are in effect right now, until they are changed. Yes, fight like Hell to get them changed or get those legislators out of office. But while the laws are still in effect, for residents and non-residents alike, the choices are, learn them, obey them, or risk the penalty. 

[PD2K 115]

C.C. lied to Hannity! He asked if there were any executive orders he could give to change things for us! CC stated "not under our current statutes"! Is that not an outright lie???

 

Can we somehow get word to Hannity that CC lied to his face and challenge him with the facts when CC next appears, which he will????

 

You could always post on his Twitter handle: @seanhannity

[PeteF 1,044]

Don't need to.... I "wrote" them... and I stand by them.

So your definition of legality is "Depends"  Good definition.  No wonder NJ is so screwed. 

 

Or restricted?  So are they legal or not?  Another "Depends"

 

And a little .25" x.25"  block of aluminum makes a rifle an "assault weapon".  Why would anyone even think that such an absurd thing might be law?  And not just that one that puts you in jail for 5-7 years.

 

Sorry your car is yellow, that's illegal go sit in jail for 5 years,  Hey you should have checked.  

 

I think the legislators, most being lawyers themselves, know the law very well, and they know the system. They also know how to manipulate both to achieve their own objectives. And they think their constituents aren't smart enough (or brave enough) to stop them from doing what they want.  We'll see what Sen. Sweeney has to say in a few weeks...

 

Yes those lawyers know the laws so well.  What is a barrel shroud?  The thing that goes up. Or let's see "Confiscate, Confiscate, Confiscate" .  How many laws was our "Esteemed" Loretta Weinberg advocating breaking, in that statement?   Or maybe Sweeny's pals and that whole freedom to assemble thing. You seem to think that politicians follow the law,  That is hilarious.  Politicians do what they can get get away with to pad their pockets.  So what if it violates a few constitutionally protected rights.  Their response "sue the state, let the courts sort it out".  Politicians have no liability for their illegal laws. So they make any unconstitutional law they please, screw over the people for years, and 10's if not 100's of thousands in legal fees, and then their bought and paid for judges, make illegal judgements (such as not informing juries of the exemptions)  and then, when get appealed to the NJ SC, more bought and paid for judges decline to hear the case.

 

You think that it takes someone spending 10 minutes on the internet,  trying to do the "right" thing by finding out gun laws in NJ, will be able too?  When LEO's, DA's and judges don't know or follow the law.

 

How many "is this legal threads" do we have here weekly?  We have leos, ffl's and many other well informed people argue after years of living with the stupid laws. But someone from out of state can figure it out in a few minutes.  Yeah right.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

So your definition of legality is "Depends"  Good definition. 

Or restricted? So are they legal or not? Another "Depends"

 

No wonder NJ is so screwed.

 

It's not my definition of  "depends." It's the legislator's definition. Again, I agree that the laws suck. That's one of the reasons why I left NJ. Those PITA legislators built all that obfuscation and all those "depends" into the law.

 

Thus, ownership/usage/possession/transport of firearms (and/or certain ammunition) is "illegal" unless it falls under the enumerated exemptions.

So it "depends" on who is doing the possession/ownership/usage/transport, and under what circumstances.

 

 

You think that it takes someone spending 10 minutes on the internet,  trying to do the "right" thing by finding out gun laws in NJ, will be able too?  When LEO's, DA's and judges don't know or follow the law.

 

They may not discover all the nuances of the law, but at least they can get enough information to make a decision on whether or not to bring weapons into NJ, and/or how to transport them if "passing through" NJ, or whether or not their CCW permit is valid (which it won't be). If they choose not to bring or transport weapons, then they avoid having to worry about all the nuances, and the penalites... But they have to make the effort. Again, most folks that run afoul of NJ gun laws do so because they can't believe things they do in their own state are "illegal" here (i.e. if not done per the "exemptions"). They need to pay attention and learn the laws, or just never set foot in the state with their guns.

[swilliams 0]

The article says he had about an hour to get his truck ready to go.  I've been looking at NJ laws for the last three weeks and still have questions.  Cut the guy some slack already!

[Fred2 367]

I am thinking that having a gun in his truck, is about the same to him as us have a can of Fix- A -Flat in our cars.

If having a can of Fix A Flat is illegal in some states, I am pretty sure that I an not going to read up on it, as I have no reason to assume what is legal in NJ would be illegal somewhere else.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

I am thinking that having a gun in his truck, is about the same to him as us have a can of Fix- A -Flat in our cars.

And, in his home state, it probably is. But it wasn't the same in the state where he planned to travel. And, once again, his choices were, learn the laws of the state of his destination (and the transport laws of States in between), leave his guns at home, or risk the penalties of being caught with them outside his state.

 

If having a can of Fix A Flat is illegal in some states, I am pretty sure that I an not going to read up on it, as I have no reason to assume what is legal in NJ would be illegal somewhere else.

That's your choice, but you risk the penalties if you get caught. Besides, my intuition tells me that "Fix a flat" probably doesn't have the same weight/focus in the law as firearms.   If it did, I'd imagine there would be a "fixaflatlaw.us" website somewhere, where I could, at least, research the law before I travel there.

 

 

[swilliams 0]

It's kind of weird to me how NJ laws seem to fly under the radar.  Everyone knows how bad DC, NYC and CA are, but you don't hear much about Jersey.  Even living next door (NYC for me) for the last 30 years, I wasn't aware that NJ didn't issue cc permits until I started getting more involved in the politics of gun rights - after SAFE act was passed a couple years ago.  I didn't realize there were issues with hollow points until I came to this forum to see about bringing one of my handguns from PA to NJ.  Maybe he didn't stop to look things up because no one hears anything about this state being one of the "bad" ones.  Even a lot of gun-rights people I know haven't heard about the Shaneen Allen case.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

It's kind of weird to me how NJ laws seem to fly under the radar.  Everyone knows how bad DC, NYC and CA are, but you don't hear much about Jersey.  Even living next door (NYC for me) for the last 30 years, I wasn't aware that NJ didn't issue cc permits until I started getting more involved in the politics of gun rights - after SAFE act was passed a couple years ago.  I didn't realize there were issues with hollow points until I came to this forum to see about bringing one of my handguns from PA to NJ.  Maybe he didn't stop to look things up because no one hears anything about this state being one of the "bad" ones.  Even a lot of gun-rights people I know haven't heard about the Shaneen Allen case.

 

I think that's because DC, NYC, CA, etc. are the places that get the most MSM attention, and thus, the most attention by all the other players (NRA, etc.). MD is also overlooked in the same regard. Perhaps Gov. Christie's candidacy will help NJ get a little more attention.

 

Nonetheless, it's up to us who know/live/lived the situation to tell the others to be aware. I tell people on my Florida forum about NJ gun laws all the time (and the people who fall victim to them). Thankfully, several folks on that forum are NJ refugees and help that along. Their reactions are mostly, "I won't ever set foot in NJ."

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

It's a question older than time itself:

"Who carries in Jersey?"

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"Jersey cops and the bad guys"

[ChrisJM981 924]

Very true. Cops and bad guys in NJ have guns. Politicians with guns fall under bad guys. I hope while the NJ Legislature is in session a previously unknown fault line under Trenton causes the earth to split and swallows them all.

[mipafox 438]

Nobody here had ever HEARD of handgunlaw.us before I joined this site. I made the very first reference to it. So I don't want to hear any snide "responsible educated gun owner" crap. When I got here, I had to explain what a "can" was. Everybody here thought people carried guns in Texas, and nobody wanted to carry a gun anyway, icky - you just wanted to be able to put a flashider on your AR. I had that conversation more than once when I brought it up.

 

Everybody's all proud of themselves now a mere 5 years later and looks down on the unwashed masses of national gun owners.

 

This is not just a matter of Jersey vs. America. Everybody needs to understand that we are not normal gun owners. The majority of this country owns firearms yet Womencrushingbugs.com gets more daily page hits than Handgunlaw.us. Seriously. We represent a single digit percentage of gun owners, regardless of whether you are sitting in NJ, PA, FL, or elsewhere right now.

 

One of my good friends is a man in his 60s I have know for over 20 years. He was born in Pennsylvania. He got his first University degree in Philosophy in France. Also has degrees in Engineering. He has a genius IQ and has spent his life traveling and working around the world. He is an old-school middle-left Liberal, not a modern Progressive. This guy is one of the smartest, most cultured, and deliberate and cautious people I have ever met. And a life-long small potatoes gun enthusiast, but a FUDD by no means. Loves it loud and fast and reactive.

 

I finally got him to get his LTCF a few years ago because he never thought he needed it for anything. I called him one day and talked to him for a bit. Before I hang up, he says, "Oh yeah, Mipa, I just wanted to double check. I'm headed to Jersey in a few minutes, my LTCF is valid over there, right?"

 

"No, you can't take a gun to Jersey. Please, please don't ever think of that. You can go straight to and from a range, but call me to go over than first if it comes up. Are you going to a range?"

 

"Really? I'm not going to a range. I'm going to my buddy's house and I wanted to show him my new Storm."

 

The level of awakening this guy went through to learn he couldn't even bring a gun to his friends' house was dramatic and a little upsetting. And this guy is in the top 20% of gun owners, old school but still Gun Owner Gen II by philosophy and purpose.

[Newtonian 453]

You don't have to know all the details of NJ Gun law to know whether or not one should or shouldn't bring any weapons into NJ (or another "non free" state) in the first place. Or whether or not NJ (or other state) honors other "out of state" carry permits (NJ doesn't). Or how one should transport weapons if "transiting through" NJ. Or what actions are or aren't protected by FOPA. Or whether or not you are required to declare (voluntarily) your weapon to a NJ LEO. 

You're being awfully tough on this fellow. As I noted there are THOUSANDS of federal laws. You've probably broken several of them this week. Jerseyites have been so brow-beaten for so long they don't understand the irony of something being 100% legal in one state that gets you a possible 10 years in prison here. We have a hostage mentality.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

You're being awfully tough on this fellow. As I noted there are THOUSANDS of federal laws. You've probably broken several of them this week.

Yes, there are thousands of laws, and no, I don't know them all. It comes down to a matter of risk. That is, what are the risks/probability that I am violating those laws about which I don't know, and the severity of penalties involved, if caught?  My "intuition" tells me (and told me long before I became a NJ Gun owner) that any activity involving firearms is on the higher end of that risk spectrum... so it's probably a good idea to know the laws involved there, and wherever I may be with my guns.

 

 

Jerseyites have been so brow-beaten for so long they don't understand the irony of something being 100% legal in one state that gets you a possible 10 years in prison here. We have a hostage mentality.

 

And that's why we... in the know... have to spread the word to those who might not know or understand.  It's why it should be a part of every training class (basic pistol,  CCW, whatever). A homework exercise doing research on USACarry.com and/or handgunlaw.us, (i.e. find the "most restrictive" jurisdiction)... combined with a lecture point on the most restrictive states in the US and what to expect when staying (temporarily) or transiting through them. These should be a part of every class offered across the US. And, no, I do not advocate making training "mandatory..." certainly not by any govt. entity.  Training should be totally voluntary... but you accept the risk of not taking any.

[brucin 923]

You're being awfully tough on this fellow. As I noted there are THOUSANDS of federal laws. You've probably broken several of them this week. Jerseyites have been so brow-beaten for so long they don't understand the irony of something being 100% legal in one state that gets you a possible 10 years in prison here. We have a hostage mentality.

Maybe it should be called "New Jersey" syndrome instead of "Stockholm" syndrome.