The way America responds to a mass shooting

[mipafox 438]

In my Comonwealth:

 

Armed civilians stand guard in front of military recruiting center near York

 

 

 

 

James Fitzgerald and a group of friends are armed to defend the Armed Forces Career Center. The center is in the Manchester Crossroads shopping center along Route 30 in Manchester Township. A wife of a recruiter said she was thankful for their support.

 

http://www.ydr.com/local/ci_28508978/armed-civilians-stand-guard-front-military-recruiting-center

Elsewhere:

 

Man armed with AR-15 stands guard at Virginia military recruiting offices

 

 

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/29573755/man-armed-guard-recruiting-office

Georgia

 

HIRAM, Ga. -

 

The morning after a deadly attack on two military centers in Chattanooga, residents in Hiram are standing watch outside the local recruiting office with their personal firearms. It is their unique way of honoring the fallen Marines and they said to protect the lives of those who serve in the military.

 

 

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/29572644/hiram-watch

God Bless the Navy, God Bless the Marines, and God Bless the United States of America.

 

"You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on earth, or we will sentence them to take the first step into a thousand years of darkness. If we fail, at least let our children and our children's children say of us we justified our brief moment here. We did all that could be done."

 

 

 

I just found out one of my buddies did a shift, so I guess I have no excuse. I need to do a shift and I need to get at least one other person to follow us.

[magnawing 5]

Gov. Abbott went a step further by aboloshing the Gun Free Zone requirement from all Texas National Guard locations.  Unfortunately, he can't do anything about the stupid Federal restrictions at recruiting centers.

 

“It is with a heavy heart that I issue this order,” Abbott said in a press release Saturday.

“After the recent shooting in Chattanooga, it has become clear that our military personnel must have the ability to defend themselves against these type of attacks on our own soil,” he said.

“Arming the National Guard at these bases will not only serve as a deterrent to anyone wishing to do harm to our service men and women, but will enable them to protect those living and working on the base.”

 

http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/Texas-Governor-Orders-National-Guard-To-Carry-Guns-On-Base-316880921.html

[T Bill 649]

That's what it will come down to, Joe Citizen doing the job of protecting our assets, same as 1776.  They say history repeats itself, I am beginning to believe it.  Sorry state of affairs when we must do the job we pay elected officials to take care of.

 

I am not blaming the front line military, they are doing what they are ordered to do, but I do find fault with those who "handcuff" the military personnel who "Get-R-Done"!  I am sick and tired of the way the government treats the people who freely elected to "cash the checks" these Aholes write, and then they have the nerve to toss them aside when they need help!  Congress should be required to spend a tour on the front to see what it is all about!

[Kevin125 4,772]

Outstanding work by those people.

 

Thanks for posting this Mipa.

[45Doll 5,877]

Looks like Well Regulated Militia to me. The wheel has turned. Good job.

[mipafox 438]

Outstanding work by those people.

 

Thanks for posting this Mipa.

As I said, I have to do more than post now that I learned a friend stood up!

[Zeke 5,504]

Outstanding work by those people.

 

Thanks for posting this Mipa.

I'll echo this.

Thankyou

[InFamous 311]

I applaud those that can do this within the law and can protect those that serve to protect us day in and out. 

[mipafox 438]

I applaud those that can do this within the law and can protect those that serve to protect us day in and out.

Agreed.

 

Since Citizens can't do this within in the law in New Jersey, I hope some of our police forum members will step up and do it.

[InFamous 311]

Agreed.

 

Since Citizens can't do this within in the law in New Jersey, I hope some of our police forum members will step up and do it.

 

To think, not only is it crazy the military can't protect themselves...moreover in other states citizens can but in good ole' Jersey we can't.

[Kevin125 4,772]

Megyn Kelly is about to interview someone she described as "One armed citizen" who I believe is one of those folks standing guard at a military recruitment center somewhere.

 

Glad they are getting more recognition.

 

Clayton Waites in Lancaster, Ohio. Good on you man.

[1LtCAP 4,263]

was reading this this morning.........it's like they're trying to spin the citizens as a bad thing again, but trying like bastards to not look like they are. also, there's a comment that the marines wish they'd go home. but i'd venture a guess that those marines at the recruiting centers feel very differently.

 

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/07/22/after-tennessee-shootings-armed-citizens-guard-recruiters/21212334/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec3_lnk4%26pLid%3D1414267052

[PeteF 1,044]

was reading this this morning.........it's like they're trying to spin the citizens as a bad thing again, but trying like bastards to not look like they are. also, there's a comment that the marines wish they'd go home. but i'd venture a guess that those marines at the recruiting centers feel very differently.

 

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/07/22/after-tennessee-shootings-armed-citizens-guard-recruiters/21212334/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec3_lnk4%26pLid%3D1414267052

Stopped reading that drivel at "There's no evidence that such centers are in danger".

 

I guess 5 service men killed by a jihady loon isn't evidence.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

"Capt. Jim Stenger, a Marine Corps public affairs officer for the recruiting district that includes parts of seven Midwestern states, said he hopes the gun-toting civilians will go home."

 

This mans name should be publicized. He's not the sitting duck after all.

[MartyZ 692]

"Capt. Jim Stenger, a Marine Corps public affairs officer for the recruiting district that includes parts of seven Midwestern states, said he hopes the gun-toting civilians will go home."

 

This mans name should be publicized. He's not the sitting duck after all.

He's a bureaucrat towing the administrations line. 

[Newtonian 453]

"Capt. Jim Stenger, a Marine Corps public affairs officer for the recruiting district that includes parts of seven Midwestern states, said he hopes the gun-toting civilians will go home."

 

This mans name should be publicized. He's not the sitting duck after all.

Disclaimer: The closest I came to serving was Jr. ROTC.

 

This guy is an example of the pussification of the armed services, especially the officer corps. "Gender" sensitivity training, transgender troops, openly gay servicemen and women. 

[Barms 98]

Guess i will start this debate:

 

Who says nj wouldn't be within the law to stand in front of center with unloaded AR and my FID card ?

[10X 3,296]

Guess i will start this debate:

 

Who says nj wouldn't be within the law to stand in front of center with unloaded AR and my FID card ?

 

Without getting into the debate, which will split into 'it's perfectly legal' and 'you'll be arrested or run off anyway' lines...

 

...in NJ you'll only identify yourself as a bonus target, since the AR can't be loaded.

[Barms 98]

My point was that I think above someone said "good for them where they are legal to do it". Welllllll you "could" do it here too.

 

Probably cause more angst than benefit. But if someone had the cajoles they wouldn't go to jail. If someone did that here would that be good or bad for our cause?

 

Would you treat that guy the same as the guy who brings his AR into Starbucks? "Just because you can don't be a jerk"

 

So if a guy in NJ stands in front of a recruiting station with his black gun most would you say "right on man!" But if he stood in front of Shop Rite would you say he is a jerk?

 

Interesting situation.

[Kevin125 4,772]

"Capt. Jim Stenger, a Marine Corps public affairs officer for the recruiting district that includes parts of seven Midwestern states, said he hopes the gun-toting civilians will go home."

 

This mans name should be publicized. He's not the sitting duck after all.

Capt. Stegner. Thank you for your service. Now STFU and stop being a bureaucrat and start being a Marine again.

[InFamous 311]

My point was that I think above someone said "good for them where they are legal to do it". Welllllll you "could" do it here too.

 

Probably cause more angst than benefit. But if someone had the cajoles they wouldn't go to jail. If someone did that here would that be good or bad for our cause?

 

Would you treat that guy the same as the guy who brings his AR into Starbucks? "Just because you can don't be a jerk"

 

So if a guy in NJ stands in front of a recruiting station with his black gun most would you say "right on man!" But if he stood in front of Shop Rite would you say he is a jerk?

 

Interesting situation.

 

 

I can bring a toy gun into a gun free zone, the criminal is gonna know it can't hurt him anyway cause the cops would have already gotten me if it were real or "loaded" like in your scenario. So it wouldn't do much for any cause I think.

 

In your scenario IDK what or if I would say anything. IMO I wouldn't bother doing it just because I'm not able to protect anyone and actually putting myself and others at risk with an unloaded rifle in a potentially dangerous of a situation.

[Kevin125 4,772]

I can bring a toy gun into a gun free zone, the criminal is gonna know it can't hurt him anyway cause the cops would have already gotten me if it were real or "loaded" like in your scenario. So it wouldn't do much for any cause I think.

 

In your scenario IDK what or if I would say anything. IMO I wouldn't bother doing it just because I'm not able to protect anyone and actually putting myself and others at risk with an unloaded rifle in a potentially dangerous of a situation.

That's pretty much what I was thinking. There may be an urge to do "something" but I think it doesn't really provide protection and could be worse than doing nothing in a worst case situation.

[Johnny 0]

Would a terrorist even know it was not legal to have it loaded? Remember the robber at the store in Newark who said to the clerk in his last dying breath "I didnt know you were allowed to own a gun in NJ".

[Kevin125 4,772]

Would a terrorist even know it was not legal to have it loaded? Remember the robber at the store in Newark who said to the clerk in his last dying breath "I didnt know you were allowed to own a gun in NJ".

 

No way to know what they might be aware of but that's pretty often our point in these debates about these shootings.  If the bad guys know they are up against armed citizens, some or maybe most of them would find something else to do or somewhere else to attack.  Just like that a-hole at the Movie theater if Colorado.  His theater choice was reportedly because it was the only gun free" theater in that area showing the movie he wanted to raid.

 

But.... the other problem is... if these jihadists are motivated, it may not matter that they are up against some opposition.  Remember... they also blow themselves up. So dying isn't always an undesired outcome for them.  Then the problem is.... our unloaded M4, Glock, Sig, etc... is a mere prop that we may have in our cold dead hands by the time it's all over.

 

So yeah, it might deter some.   But terrorists by definition are nuts and many won't care one way of the other.  And once the cat is out of the bag.. "THOSE INFIDELS IN NJ ARE REALLY UNARMED!"  They will drool at the chance to take us out.

 

Which leads us back to the original problem.  Our gov't needs to stop forcing us to be unarmed in order to comply with the law.  They need to comply with the Constitution. And GTF out of our way.

[brucin 923]

No way to know what they might be aware of but that's pretty often our point in these debates about these shootings.  If the bad guys know they are up against armed citizens, some or maybe most of them would find something else to do or somewhere else to attack.  Just like that a-hole at the Movie theater if Colorado.  His theater choice was reportedly because it was the only gun free" theater in that area showing the movie he wanted to raid.

 

But.... the other problem is... if these jihadists are motivated, it may not matter that they are up against some opposition.  Remember... they also blow themselves up. So dying isn't always an undesired outcome for them.  Then the problem is.... our unloaded M4, Glock, Sig, etc... is a mere prop that we may have in our cold dead hands by the time it's all over.

 

So yeah, it might deter some.   But terrorists by definition are nuts and many won't care one way of the other.  And once the cat is out of the bag.. "THOSE INFIDELS IN NJ ARE REALLY UNARMED!"  They will drool at the chance to take us out.

 

Which leads us back to the original problem.  Our gov't needs to stop forcing us to be unarmed in order to comply with the law.  They need to comply with the Constitution. And GTF out of our way.

Not true. He chose that theater because it had an emergency exit close to a parking spot. It just happened to be a gun free zone.

 

This info was in the diary/manifesto that was released during the trial.

[Kevin125 4,772]

Thanks for the info. Why I used "reportedly" in my post.

[High Exposure 5,664]

 

"Capt. Jim Stenger, a Marine Corps public affairs officer for the recruiting district that includes parts of seven Midwestern states, said he hopes the gun-toting civilians will go home."

 

This mans name should be publicized. He's not the sitting duck after all.

Capt. Stegner. Thank you for your service. Now STFU and stop being a bureaucrat and start being a Marine again.

I'll be the voice of dissent here. Capt. Stegner is 100% correct.

 

Some thoughts in reference to armed citizens in front of recruiting stations:

 

1) Capability:

Soldiers would be better armed with M4's. A cache of M4's in a duffel bag would be better than an unknown civilian armed guard. Yes, I know, for now that isn't going to happen. But, there are better ways for the volunteers to go about this.

 

Hell, an alleged "former Marine" brought a Mosin-Nagant and a Taurus Judge........ Jesus Titty-Fucking Christ

 

2) Exploitation:

I am just waiting for Muhj to get smart and send a dude dressed in the American flag tank top, cut off camo pants, eating a hot-dog, and carrying an Apple pie to stand guard - then pull his openly carried piece and shoot up the place. Or some Muslim skank with big tits and eyeliner to caress and fondle some civilian's weapon and then snatch it and turn it on everyone. Don't give them the position or materiel to better execute their goals.

 

3) Lack of combat mindset

Looking through pictures of these armed citizens, I see a few constants: overweight, lack of proper clothing for the task at hand, no sights on weapons, poor weapons manipulation... These are not the type of people you want guarding anyone. These are not the type of rifles you want to pick up after Muhj burns down Slappy McTrigger open carrying because he's bored, tired, and not scanning his sector vigilantly.

 

People would be much better off doing this kind of stuff being concealed and acting like Walmart greeters for the recruiting centers, welcoming young people to the centers to talk to recruiters rather than playing soldier dress up in a place they never went if they REALLY wanted to do what they are pretending to do.

 

I would much rather see conservatively dressed former service members or professionally dressed armed citizens, who are discretely armed, who simply say "we are here to be the eyes and ears for law enforcement if we see something suspicious and to welcome young people to the military in a safe manner." Much better than some dumb ass in his active shooter load out playing Call of Duty/security contractor. Same guy who cannot administratively unload a firearm without discharging it.....which has happened at least twice that we know about. Clownshoes.

 

4) Lack of Authority

What authority do they have to stop anyone from doing anything? What kind of protection are they really offering? If they tell you to stop, and you don't, then what? Are they searching you if you look suspicious? Are they doing this at gunpoint? What is the plan to de-escalate when they find out that the kid they just stopped is a local food delivery guy and not Johnny Jihadi?

 

Some fool pulls that on the wrong guy and there will be some serious issues for all involved - and lucky if no one is seriously injured or killed.

 

5) Lack of training

Most of these volunteers are not trained in proper discrimination for suicide vests, concealed weapons, and visual / behavioral indicators. What's gonna happen when Slappy McTrigger shoots some college kid with a backpack and earphones on, ditty boppin' down the sidewalk, who doesn't acknowledge Slappy's command to stop?

 

What's gonna happen when Slappy McTrigger ND's their weapon? Shoots himself? Shoots another "guard"? It's gonna happen, hell the NDs have happened already: http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2015/07/23/recruiting-center-shot-fired.html

 

6) Stolen Valor

How many of these dudes are legit veterans? How many of those are combat veterans? I'd venture few.

 

Yeah, I get it. DOD regulations are some serious bullshit. This makes you feel all 'Murica seeing citizens stand up. Yeah, me too, but so what?

 

Look at this from a ruthless force-protection standpoint. Armed citizens have some serious 2nd & 3rd Order Effects that need to be taken into consideration.

 

I think some of these guys are honestly trying to bring attention to a very real problem (recruiting stations are soft targets). However, I think a lot of them are playing dress up and attention whore. Just because they're there does not give them a pass. When these folks get out there and get their pictures taken, they are de facto ambassadors of gun owners to the rest of the world. They're hurting us all and especially hurting the cause they claim to to be supporting. How hard is it to at least put on a collared shirt and say open carry a holstered pistol? Or...... God forbid - a holstered pistol UNDER their collared shirt to REALLY make it about the goal of helping the recruiters as opposed to making a statement.