Hypothetical Transport Scenario (because I know you love these).

[SgtToadette 59]

So to make it breif: Say I don't own nor desire to own a motor vehicle. How I to transport my guns/ammo to the range?

 

Can I walk it?

 

Take public transport?

 

Ride a bike?

 

Legally, how can I go to my "local" range and abide by the statutes without driving?

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Actually I really don't like wasting time on hypothetical questions.  Especially ones previously asked and answered.

 

Walking:  HG doubtful, Rifle in a locked case, maybe.

 

Public transport:  HG is a big question mark.  Depends upon how many layers to get to it?  Rifle:  Kids used to do this on a school bus!

 

Bike:  Motorcycle riders do it now.  Bicycle riders maybe, depends upon how many layers to be comfortable and how big your balls are, lol!

 

Hire a car service and leave the driving to them.  Have your grandma drop you off at the park to play.

[Dr.Jimmy Rustler 23]

uber/taxi

[InFamous 311]

So to make it breif: Say I don't own nor desire to own a motor vehicle. How I to transport my guns/ammo to the range?

 

Can I walk it?

 

Take public transport?

 

Ride a bike?

 

Legally, how can I go to my "local" range and abide by the statutes without driving?

 

Do the statutes say anything at all about driving?

[Vlad G 345]

We live in a motorized society. Your desires to the contrary don't come into play.

 

Sell one gun, buy this; http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-3-Series-318i-/111748905176

Ride a horse

Have your manservant drive you

Take a cab (cause lets face it, the odds of being in walking distance to a range are low)

 

Heck, it is just a derivative on the far more interesting question of why homeless people are banned from owning guns in NJ.

[Rob0115 1,105]

I have hard bags on my motorcycle and lock pistols in and go to the range.  Perfectly legal.  

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I have hard bags on my motorcycle and lock pistols in and go to the range.  Perfectly legal.  

YEP, it sure is!

[Kevin125 4,772]

Chuck Norris just sutures his weapons to his bare chest.

[Tack Tickle 0]

Just 2 questions....

 

1. Do I get to keep the handicap sign?

 

2. Do I have to keep "Christ in Christmas"?

 

Sell one gun, buy this; http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-3-Series-318i-/111748905176

[Howard 538]

 

Walking:  HG doubtful, Rifle in a locked case, maybe.

 

Not sure I agree with that one.  If that were true then it would not be possible for many gun shops that exist to do business in New Jersey.  Take for example the gun shop, like one in Hackettstown, that are located on a city street with no private parking lot.  The only way to get there or leave there is on foot.  So even if you found a parking spot one block away you will be walking on the sidewalk with your gun that you just bought or one you are bringing in to sell or have repaired.  I would assume since you have it in a locked case you should be fine.  But since I don't play a lawyer on TV and have not stayed at a HolidayInn Express in quite some time, who knows.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

^^^Note I didn't rule it out, and your example is one of my reasons.  Going to your parked vehicle may be a "little gray area" that a Cop will endure as "normal" given the circumstances.  Walking two miles with it in your backpack may not induce such a cooperative spirit.  Like everything else in Joisey, it's a combination of how many layers (intent to do wrong or NOT) and do you look like a Hood Rat or are your pants pulled-up?

[Vlad G 345]

Just 2 questions....

 

1. Do I get to keep the handicap sign?

 

2. Do I have to keep "Christ in Christmas"?

 

You can ask the seller, it was the first cheap car I found

[Howard 538]

^^^Note I didn't rule it out, and your example is one of my reasons.  Going to your parked vehicle may be a "little gray area" that a Cop will endure as "normal" given the circumstances.  Walking two miles with it in your backpack may not induce such a cooperative spirit.  Like everything else in Joisey, it's a combination of how many layers (intent to do wrong or NOT) and do you look like a Hood Rat or are your pants pulled-up?

 

And THAT is just one example of how screwed up this state is.  So, it may be legal to walk 100 yards with a gun; but it may be illegal to walk 700 yards with a gun.  Why is the ACLU not all over this?  How can poor people in the inner cities get to a gun range with their guns if they cannot walk?  Even if they don't walk the entire way they may have to walk a half mile or more to get to a bus stop.  Or is this discriminatory law saying they have to call a taxi (if one will come) to pick them up at a high cost.  They can't even use Uber now that it has declared it's cars to be gunfree zones.

[louu 399]

And THAT is just one example of how screwed up this state is.  So, it may be legal to walk 100 yards with a gun; but it may be illegal to walk 700 yards with a gun.  Why is the ACLU not all over this?  How can poor people in the inner cities get to a gun range with their guns if they cannot walk?  Even if they don't walk the entire way they may have to walk a half mile or more to get to a bus stop.  Or is this discriminatory law saying they have to call a taxi (if one will come) to pick them up at a high cost.  They can't even use Uber now that it has declared it's cars to be gunfree zones.

Poor people in the inner city use their range everyday. It's a short walk to the street corner for them, don't you watch the news? Also, there gun shops don't require P2p'so or FPID's.

[Vlad G 345]

this is why these arguments get funny and odd, because people have this notion that poor people have rights. In reality, they don't, not on this issue and not on many others. 

[Smokin .50 1,907]

And THAT is just one example of how screwed up this state is.  So, it may be legal to walk 100 yards with a gun; but it may be illegal to walk 700 yards with a gun.  Why is the ACLU not all over this?  How can poor people in the inner cities get to a gun range with their guns if they cannot walk?  Even if they don't walk the entire way they may have to walk a half mile or more to get to a bus stop.  Or is this discriminatory law saying they have to call a taxi (if one will come) to pick them up at a high cost.  They can't even use Uber now that it has declared it's cars to be gunfree zones.

I've been saying for YEARS that the gun laws were written in a style so as to enable land owners more rights than commoners.  Part of the exemptions, "other land owned or possessed by him" allows land owners and/or renters to patrol properties with loaded firearms, and the term "firearm" is used and NOT "long gun", which to me indicates a hand gun is perfectly legal.  So throwing it unloaded in your car trunk, then getting out of vehicle, popping the trunk, loading your hand gun and patrolling a deserted land parcel at night or a gas station on a street corner is perfectly alright to do so.  So NJ firearms laws go all of the way back to the Rev War, when Land Owners could VOTE and commoners could not.............

 

Just another "Rosey Observation".......... 

[jackandjill 683]

Do the statutes say anything at all about driving?

Only as an option, if you using it and it has trunk. 

 

2C:39-6. Exemptions

g.     All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

[jackandjill 683]

I was looking at NC Handgun laws and stumbled on NC Gun Forum.  The forum made no secret of the fact that NC Pistol Purchase laws were crafted in Jim Crow era to purposely delay and make it impossible for certain class of people exercise the rights. 

 

Interestingly enough, looks like NJ draconian firearm laws are written around the time when southern states were getting rid of certain laws - 1965.

When it comes to certain constitutional rights, NJ quietly and without shame, drafted laws  preventing certain class of people from exercising them.

 

In fact, by failing to curb town level additional forms,  NJ state is playing active role in furthering the discrimination based on race, gender, social, economical status. NJ State is also playing primary role in such discrimination with concealed carry permits by failing to uniformly define and apply Justifiable Need.

[CMJeepster 2,777]

Only as an option, if you using it and it has trunk. 

 

2C:39-6. Exemptions

g.     All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package... and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.[/size]

IANAL, but let's try this. Take the express train / bus, or don't step off the sidewalk, OK?

[robot_hell 72]

I actually don't see much ambiguity in the text of the law.

 

IANAL either, but this:

 

2C:39-6. Exemptions

g.     All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or

 

 

...tells me that an unloaded handgun in a backpack is OK as long as the gun is secured in a case. That would seem to include walking in a parking lot from a gun shop, as well as walking down the street with an unloaded long gun in a case.

 

This doesn't mean you wouldn't get hassled. Just that you might be able to beat it in court if you have enough money and time to throw away on a court battle. That's where the ambiguity lies.

[Kevin125 4,772]

Remember, you can walk around or ride your bicycle around all day with a AR on your shoulder if its unloaded and you have been issued a FPID. The case, tied package etc are exemptions for those...whoever they are.... that own guns and have no FPID.

 

Not sure what you do with the ammo though..except maybe put it in a compartment in that backpack you will have with you.

 

Handguns.....seems they just need to be cased separate from ammo.

 

On public transportation... Not sure but I don't recall ever seeing a law that says you can't. And that's all laws do..as I learned here....tell you what you -can't- do.

[maintenanceguy 510]

"All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.”

 

Seems obvious that you have two options when transporting.  You can secure it in a trunk or you can secure ti in a fastened case, gunbox, or securely tied package.  I see nothing that requires that it be within a motor vehicle that you are driving.

 

As an interesting (at least to me) related topic.  During the brief few weeks when Washington DC was forced by the court to be shall issue, I decided to get my DC carry permit.  An application must be made in person and any firearm you plan to carry must be registered with the DC police.  To register a firearm, you must bring it into the police station.

 

I always park in VA and take the Metro into the city.  I emailed Metro PD to ask how to legally transport my firearm from the Metro terminal in VA (Where I can legally carry) to the Police station in DC (where I can't).  This would include the Metro ride and a several block walk in DC.   They advised contacting the Metro to verify if they had any special rules but as per DC law, transporting a firearm unloaded and in a secured container was perfectly legal.  I was surprised.

 

I took a day off to go down and do the paperwork and the day before I was going down, the injunction was overturned and DC is no-issue again.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Remember, you can walk around or ride your bicycle around all day with a AR on your shoulder if its unloaded and you have been issued a FPID. The case, tied package etc are exemptions for those...whoever they are.... that own guns and have no FPID.

 

Not sure what you do with the ammo though..except maybe put it in a compartment in that backpack you will have with you.

 

Handguns.....seems they just need to be cased separate from ammo.

 

On public transportation... Not sure but I don't recall ever seeing a law that says you can't. And that's all laws do..as I learned here....tell you what you -can't- do.

 

 

why does it have to be a separate case?

 

unloaded does not equal separate.. 

[leahcim 679]

I think you could transport an unloaded HG in a hand carried Ziploc bag-as long as it's closed/fastened. I wouldn't recommend,but I think it complies with the law. I actually -not hypothetically- transport my HGs to range inside a bag on my bicycle's rack. The bag is zipped shut, pretty sure that complies. And unless I become incapacitated (e.g. by an accident) no one will know I am transporting.

[leahcim 679]

I don't really think this part of the law is that ambiguous. The part about reasonable deviation, HP, and moving between residences is where I have difficulties.

[maintenanceguy 510]

why does it have to be a separate case?

 

unloaded does not equal separate.. 

FOPA says "separate".  NJ law does not.  A lot of people get this mixed up.  I even took a class with one of the big, well known ranges in NJ and the instructor said ammo needed to be separate.

 

I think you could transport an unloaded HG in a hand carried Ziploc bag-as long as it's closed/fastened. I wouldn't recommend,but I think it complies with the law. I actually -not hypothetically- transport my HGs to range inside a bag on my bicycle's rack. The bag is zipped shut, pretty sure that complies. And unless I become incapacitated (e.g. by an accident) no one will know I am transporting.

 

In south jersey 30 years ago, it was common practice for the ffl to wrap a handgun in butchers paper and tie it with string for the transport home - just like a steak.  It was a "securely tied package".

 

I've had ffl's put a piece of scotch tape on the factory cardboard box to create a "closed and fastened case" and I've transported a used handgun home from the gun shop in a plastic shopping bag (think Walmart bag) with the plastic handles tied together to make a "securely tied package".  He did double bag it so you couldn't see the gun through the bag.  That one rode home on the passenger seat floor since my truck doesn't have a trunk. 

 

I believe all of these were legal.

[Kevin125 4,772]

why does it have to be a separate case?

 

unloaded does not equal separate..

 

Right. My mistake. Separate not required.

 

In fact, I'm having trouble finding where I thought I saw that ammunition had to be separate from firearms.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

^^^Kevin, it's a FOPA Rule, NOT a NJ law.  Lots of confusion on this issue---you're certainly NOT the first, so don't sweat it.

 

What makes it even worse is that the NJSP quote it on their web site.  Lots of folks forget to differentiate between interstate (FOPA) and intrastate (contained within only NJ).  Most myths about ammo transportation emanate from this factoid on the NJSP web site.

[PK90 3,570]

I believe that NOW the NJSP Website has been corrected the last time I viewed it.

 

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

 

 

[jackandjill 683]

NJSP/AG (not sure who drives this)  is far from quoting actual laws and advising public and what "really" is the law.

 

For example:

 

* The firearm should not be directly accessible from the passenger compartment

  I am not sure where in 2C:39 is this written 

 

* NJSP site quotes 2C:39-6g but no mention of 2C:39-5© FPID for long guns

 

* In an email inquiry, NJSP told me that I must follow 6g (regardless of FPID for long guns), at best avoiding to clarify the question per law

 

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_trans.html

 

 

 

To make matters worse,  it appears that some LEOs are either trained or took up themselves to know only 18 U.S.C.A. 926A,  instead of properly applying 2C:39-5/6. This is evident from comments at  njlawman forums.