jackandjill 683 Posted August 25, 2015 As tragic as the incident is and I cannot imagine the pain and suffering endured by the family, here is the next generation of folks who think mere laws will prevent the incidents... ----------------------------------------------------------------- One year ago today, Charles Vacca's children received the horrific news: Their father, a shooting instructor, was accidentally killed by a 9-year-old girl with an Uzi submachine gun. Vacca's children have publicly forgiven the girl. But now, they've launched an online petition pushing for legislation to prevent children from shooting fully automatic weapons. A video on the petition's website features Vacca's four children, starting with his 12-year-old son, Christopher. "It's legal for kids my age and younger to shoot Uzis," he said. "That hasn't changed." http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/25/us/children-and-automatic-weapons-petition/index.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Howard 538 Posted August 25, 2015 So let me see if I get this. The family was happy that they were making money by training kids to shoot but now they want to ban that???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted August 25, 2015 They want to ban children shooting full automatic. Frankly it's probably a good idea unless they are pintle mounted with range of motion limiters. This is not the first time a kid has had a machine gun get away from them. The other one in recent memory is when the muzzle rose and shot the kid in the head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackandjill 683 Posted August 25, 2015 They want to ban children shooting full automatic. Frankly it's probably a good idea unless they are pintle mounted with range of motion limiters. This is not the first time a kid has had a machine gun get away from them. The other one in recent memory is when the muzzle rose and shot the kid in the head. What about skinny guy like me who may not be able to hold the firearm in full auto ? Do we make another law to ban skinny guys ? or should we depend on the certified instructor ability to decide The family says the dad taught them firearm safety but would never let them handle it as they are too young. So why didnt the instructor use same judgement in deciding to let the kid handle the Uzi ? Isnt making laws to address every element of behavior and responsibility, the reason we are in the mess of NJ laws ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted August 25, 2015 What about skinny guy like me who may not be able to hold the firearm in full auto ? Do we make another law to ban skinny guys ? or should we depend on the certified instructor ability to decide The family says the dad taught them firearm safety but would never let them handle it as they are too young. So why didnt the instructor use same judgement in deciding to let the kid handle the Uzi ? Isnt making laws to address every element of behavior and responsibility, the reason we are in the mess of NJ laws ? We all agree that handing a full automatic to a 2 year old child would be a problem? Yes? At what point do you draw the line? For some children it's never, others are probably just fine at 8. The issue is where to draw the line. As much fun as a full auto can be, it's also a deadly weapon. No different really than a 300 horsepower, 4000lb machine that can plow into crowds. We don't let 8 year old drive those no matter who is next to them. In some states, they can't even drive them on private property. These are tragic accidents for sure, but what is really gained by giving an a child a FA? There's nothing there that they can't wait for until they are 15 or some other age by which they have muscle mass and some sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,256 Posted August 25, 2015 Look, children probably shouldn't be handed too much gun. It's variable what that means though. In this case the dead guy used some supremely bad judgement. Being the instructor it was his job to assess and say yes or no. He failed and paid the price. Making a law won't eliminate bad judgement. There are adults who can't deal with FA well and are to be handled with supreme caution too. The law fixes nothing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted August 26, 2015 Listen I dint want to ban liquor either but a drinking age is probably s good idea. I don't see anyone's 2a rights being oppressed by firing one round at a time rather than select fire until the age of 16 or 18 whatever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackandjill 683 Posted August 26, 2015 The issue isnt with the goal but the manner in which it is to be achieved. Everyone agrees that something/someone should have prevented (for lack of better term) this incident from happening. But is it be achieved by law because "why a child needs to fire FA anyways" or "is anyone's 2a rights are infringed". Replace that "child" with a skinny guy or a 20 year old or 25 year old. BTW, FBI statistics consistently show that highest murders involving firearms are committed by age group 18 to 30. So someone is going to make argument to raise the age to 30. We (2A groups) should be comfortable with that ?. After all, who under 30 needs firearms anyways ? Whats the rush to exercise 2A right until after 30 ? Comparing this proposal to liquor or cars isnt appropriate. In case of Cars / Liquor, the individual is prevented (by law anyways) from purchasing, possessing or using on their own. Children cannot purchase, possess or use FA on their own anyways. In NJ, presumably children cannot even possess slingshots either. That goes back to making laws, controlling and conditioning from early on. What mindset you think those kids will have when they grow up to be Cops, Mayors, Politicians, Governers, Senators etc? We cannot enforce the laws on the books, yet we like to spend untold amount of time and resources to make something illegal, that doesnt even remotely represent the problems in the society. Lets talk about "laws". Riddle me this. What percentage of typical 15 year olds have engaged in drinking ? What percentage of same group have engaged in drugs ? How many 15 year olds do you think are packing concealed in places like Newark and Camden ? THATs the problem we should be solving, not making more laws trying to address incidents that could be resolved by training and responsibility of involved Adults. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,256 Posted August 26, 2015 Listen I dint want to ban liquor either but a drinking age is probably s good idea. I don't see anyone's 2a rights being oppressed by firing one round at a time rather than select fire until the age of 16 or 18 whatever. And on their own, that's fine. However, there's very little the law will do about mom and dad letting the kids have a glass of something with the family. If they do, they don't wind up as felons. Same with guns. Kids can't be using them without supervision until 18-21. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMJeepster 2,766 Posted August 26, 2015 ...supremely bad judgement.My opinion as well. People need to think things through. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,569 Posted August 26, 2015 Hmmm. NJ gun owners that support more gun laws. Who'da thunk it? Sent from an undisclosed location. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMJeepster 2,766 Posted August 26, 2015 I don't support laws trying to regulate stupid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted August 26, 2015 We have a few morons in here. Let's spell this out. I have had 6 year olds shoot full auto. The gun that little girl shot? I wouldn't hand it to any of you in this thread. I have one similar, and it requires experience. It's about stupid people, not full auto. And, Yes, you do want to infringe peoples' 2A rights and I am glad you are in Jersey where you can't cause as much harm. Please stay there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JTS1469 0 Posted August 26, 2015 I totally support banning poor judgment and not punishing the rest of the people who don't practice it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brisco 130 Posted August 26, 2015 Wait a minute, this is a gun forum right? I thought I was reading comments from NJ.com or the Huff post. Did someone actually say adding another law restricting our rights made sense? Maybe we should ban magazines, load one bullet at a time. Let's add some "common sense" gun laws after a tragedy. This is why we can't have nice things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted August 26, 2015 Preach it, Brothers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albanian 121 Posted August 27, 2015 They want to ban children shooting full automatic. Frankly it's probably a good idea unless they are pintle mounted with range of motion limiters. This is not the first time a kid has had a machine gun get away from them. The other one in recent memory is when the muzzle rose and shot the kid in the head. There oughta be a law! No thanks. It's a freakish enough incident as it is, millions of kids have shot and will shoot full auto with no problems except maybe a hard to erase grin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted August 27, 2015 I don't believe in arbitrary limits. We have enough of that crap with magazine capacity and evil features. Don't expect them to go after FA only. I'm sure it will include temporary transfer to anyone under age x. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OfcrFek 21 Posted August 27, 2015 There are enough people that should be judging whether or not something is a good idea in this instance.... the range, the instructor, the parent/guardian, and the kid themselves.... there are plenty of people that can realize someone isn't ready for a gun like that. Just because there was a freak accident doesn't mean we need the government stepping in to put a blanket policy in effect and taking away more of our rights. People just need to use their goddamn brains a little better when making decisions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites