OBRPC 3-Gun 9/27/15

[Krdshrk 3,877]

So many personal issues... I still had fun though...

 

Things to remember for next time:

• Make sure your guns are all clean and lubed - my AR was running DRYYYYYY
• Make sure your guns are zeroed properly.   AR was way off plus I'm blind as a bat so it was hard to adjust at range...
• Know your shotgun's POA/POI with slugs - I was aiming about center of mass and they were going over the targets at about 75 yards.... 
• Make sure everything's in perfect working order - Things break... like my shotgun's safety...  It was working fine earlier in the match but I guess was on it's way out already...

[Jim Norman 5]

Lou, I am sorry that one of your scores was not recorded. Unfortunately I can't do anything about it. I will look at the particular Stage Nook to see if it was somehow marked incomplete, but since ALL data entry is done on the stage at the time the shooter makes his run, I have nothing to backup to.

 

WAY BACK when we started out using Palms for scoring we handed out paper sheets for back up, no one seemed to want to fill them out and turn them in so we stopped using them. I can print up individual sheets for our matches and anyone that wants to is welcome to copy down their score from the nook. That way should something like this occur, I would have the paper as a backup. The paper would have to have been truned in at the match and prior to the posting of the scores.

 

As an interesting bit of history, back when we scored everything on paper this problem still existed. We would get scoresheets that were signs with no time, no hits recoded for steel and so on, only one hit recorded on a target, but no misses. Nothing has really changed.

It is the responsibility of the shooter to LOOK at the NOOK, note that they have a score and hit the save button, Then look to make sure the score was actually saved and no error message such as INCOMPLETE SCORE pops up. If this were to e done by everyone, thi sissue would be essentially dead. I know as one of the guys taht runs the nook a lot that most shooters walk off without even looking, Heck I do it! but then they are dependent upon the Nooker person to have accurately entered their score and saved it.

Next match I will print up a limited number of papers and anyone that wants one is welcome to it with the proviso that it MUST be turned in to me at the end of the match, no back ups will be accepted after the scores have been posted and if there is a score in the Nook, it stands, the only time the paper will be used is if there is NO SCORE.

 

Please, anyone with scoring questions, bring them to me and I will address them. Lou, this is not all directed at you, I am using this, I hope, as a learning/teaching momment for all so that in the future this issue does not arise.

 

Thank you all to everyone that works to make our matches what they are, some of the best club matches you will ever shoot!

 

Jim

[Vlad G 345]

 

 

• Make sure your guns are zeroed properly.   AR was way off plus I'm blind as a bat so it was hard to adjust at range...
• Know your shotgun's POA/POI with slugs - I was aiming about center of mass and they were going over the targets at about 75 yards.... 

 

 

I feel like I might have mentioned this somewhere on the first page of this thread ... 

[Krdshrk 3,877]

I feel like I might have mentioned this somewhere on the first page of this thread ... 

 

Yep - I thought mine were on... I was wrong..

 

I'm somewhat limited with my range - 100 yards through tubes means sometimes things bounce off the top and make it look like i'm hitting properly.  I think that's what happened with my slugs...

[Vlad G 345]

Bouncing isn't going to give groups, so you need to make sure your groups are consistent. Specially with slugs I recommend always zeroing off hand, I find that shooting of a rest makes shotguns shoot at a vastly different POI the off hand

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Bouncing isn't going to give groups, so you need to make sure your groups are consistent. Specially with slugs I recommend always zeroing off hand, I find that shooting of a rest makes shotguns shoot at a vastly different POI the off hand

 

Thanks - didn't think of that.  Will try it.  I haven't had time to go through everything and make sure all of my rifles are properly zeroed, lubed, etc.  It was pretty much my first competition since my kid was born...   Hopefully now with my new job and my kid getting older I'll have a bit more daddy time to do things properly.

[louu 399]

Lou, I am sorry that one of your scores was not recorded. Unfortunately I can't do anything about it. I will look at the particular Stage Nook to see if it was somehow marked incomplete, but since ALL data entry is done on the stage at the time the shooter makes his run, I have nothing to backup to.

 

WAY BACK when we started out using Palms for scoring we handed out paper sheets for back up, no one seemed to want to fill them out and turn them in so we stopped using them. I can print up individual sheets for our matches and anyone that wants to is welcome to copy down their score from the nook. That way should something like this occur, I would have the paper as a backup. The paper would have to have been truned in at the match and prior to the posting of the scores.

 

As an interesting bit of history, back when we scored everything on paper this problem still existed. We would get scoresheets that were signs with no time, no hits recoded for steel and so on, only one hit recorded on a target, but no misses. Nothing has really changed.

 

It is the responsibility of the shooter to LOOK at the NOOK, note that they have a score and hit the save button, Then look to make sure the score was actually saved and no error message such as INCOMPLETE SCORE pops up. If this were to e done by everyone, thi sissue would be essentially dead. I know as one of the guys taht runs the nook a lot that most shooters walk off without even looking, Heck I do it! but then they are dependent upon the Nooker person to have accurately entered their score and saved it.

 

Next match I will print up a limited number of papers and anyone that wants one is welcome to it with the proviso that it MUST be turned in to me at the end of the match, no back ups will be accepted after the scores have been posted and if there is a score in the Nook, it stands, the only time the paper will be used is if there is NO SCORE.

 

Please, anyone with scoring questions, bring them to me and I will address them. Lou, this is not all directed at you, I am using this, I hope, as a learning/teaching momment for all so that in the future this issue does not arise.

 

Thank you all to everyone that works to make our matches what they are, some of the best club matches you will ever shoot!

 

Jim

Thanks Jim lesson learned.  From now on I'll be sure to tell the scorer that I want to hit save. I will probably take you up on the paper offer too.

 

Sucks because I'll bet I would have gotten 6th place in Tac Ops. 

[Joe P. 4]

My first 3 gun match yesterday, finished at the bottom of my division and that's cool with me. i had a great time shooting with good people. it was a little more intense than i predicted, i don't think your supposed to hold your breath while running an entire stage.  i just wanted to say thanks to those who put this match on ..i don't think they have an emoji for gratitude.

 

[Jim Norman 5]

It is very important to breathe! Not breating leads to all sorts of issues. If the stage is 3 minutes long, you may actually pass out if you fail to breathe.

 

Seriously, keeping your respiration rate under control is critical to top level performance. It is one of the things that canreally keep your performance below the level you should be attaining. You run to a position and instead of settling in and shooting, you get there and all you can doo is breathe as your chest heaves trying to get enough air. Two things, you are buring time and you aren't going to get of well aimed shots if you are bouncing all over due to a greatly increaded heart and respiration rate.

[Golf battery 1,223]

This was a great three gun. Many challenging stages. That polish wheel thingy was a bitch. We had a great squad. Vlad, high exposure, krdshrk, sgt toadette and one or two other forum members. I hope you guys join in again for the next three gun or carbine shoot. Yes its a very very long day but in NJ these dont come by often enough. Great to meet you all. And. High exposure next time i see a red dot on your forehead ill make sure to act quicker and tackle you for your own safety. Just dont shoot me if i do. Till next time. P.s. Krdshrk I always carry clp if you need it. Or go piston drive. Laters.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Heh - I had gun oil with me - just didn't dawn on me to check until the end.  When I was making ready on the last stage and couldn't get it to strip a round properly I was like "welp.. she's dry".

[Golf battery 1,223]

Yeah. Di guns you gotta run wet. Even if theyre very dirty. Theyll run. But just keep em more wet. Glad to see you got the marketplace back up and running. I was wondering what happened. I use piston guns now. See ya next time. Or at somerset.

[louu 399]

That was my first time with a polish plate rack and it's my new favorite target. I still have love for the Texas star but the polish rack is freakin  awesome. Hope we can use it for USPSA someday.

[Vlad G 345]

That was my first time with a polish plate rack and it's my new favorite target. I still have love for the Texas star but the polish rack is freakin  awesome. Hope we can use it for USPSA someday.

 

Sure, you get to move it. As Raz-0 pointed out, if MGM could fit a neutron start in their plates racks they would. That thing is a SINGLE PIECE, moving it is an exercise in spinal injuries.

[Joe P. 4]

It is very important to breathe! Not breating leads to all sorts of issues. If the stage is 3 minutes long, you may actually pass out if you fail to breathe.

 

Seriously, keeping your respiration rate under control is critical to top level performance. It is one of the things that canreally keep your performance below the level you should be attaining. You run to a position and instead of settling in and shooting, you get there and all you can doo is breathe as your chest heaves trying to get enough air. Two things, you are buring time and you aren't going to get of well aimed shots if you are bouncing all over due to a greatly increaded heart and respiration rate.

ha! ..i had been so busy trying to remember target sequence and somewhat of a stage plan,i forget to pace myself. It's a balance i have to figure out. The longer stages give me trouble, on bay 7 i spent way too much time on far rifle targets and timed out and i really wanted a shot at those flying clays,  I'll be in better shape for the next 3gun , and maybe pick up a semi auto SG while i'm at it.  Great time , can't wait for the next one.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

ha! ..i had been so busy trying to remember target sequence and somewhat of a stage plan,i forget to pace myself. It's a balance i have to figure out. The longer stages give me trouble, on bay 7 i spent way too much time on far rifle targets and timed out and i really wanted a shot at those flying clays,  I'll be in better shape for the next 3gun , and maybe pick up a semi auto SG while i'm at it.  Great time , can't wait for the next one.

 

I knew I was taking too much time on the rifle targets so I just winged lead downrange and took the miss penalties... grabbed the shotgun and took out the rest and made it to the middle of the pack in terms of time on that stage...

[High Exposure 5,661]

So, that was fun!

 

It was very different than anything I have ever done before. It required a totally new mindset from anything I have been trained to do over the last 13 years. A few times I had to really slow down and fight my instincts on what to do next to avoid a procedural or safety violation.

 

I really enjoyed the rifle and pistol portions. The shotgun portions were challenging. I don't shoot shotgun enough and I am s... l... o... w... feeding the puppy. I knew that coming in, but it was still eye opening.

 

We had a great squad, all were helpful, and I learned a lot from watching everyone.

 

Having Poppa Vlad go first was nice for us newbs and he laid some good wisdom down on us a few times covering strategy, gear and ammo selection, manipulations, and planning your run through the stages.

 

This isn't something I can do often, but I would love to shoot a couple of these matches a year.

 

Thanks again to everyone in squad 2 for making my first 3 gun a fun and challenging experience.

[High Exposure 5,661]

Oh, and I found those slugs Vlad recommended. 80 for $77 in a plastic ammo can.

 

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/80-rounds-fiocchi-12-gauge-low-recoil-2-3-4-7-8-oz-aero-rifled-slug-shotgun-ammo?a=1316451

 

They were much easier to shoot than the Remington 1oz slugs I started the day with. Especially on stages where you can't get a great stock position due to barricades or positional shooting.

[Joe P. 4]

I knew I was taking too much time on the rifle targets so I just winged lead downrange and took the miss penalties... grabbed the shotgun and took out the rest and made it to the middle of the pack in terms of time on that stage...

That probably should have been my play especially using irons, and Dave even said it at the beginning " Don't fall in love with a target".... i didn't listen 

[Vlad G 345]

So, that was fun!

 

It was very different than anything I have ever done before. It required a totally new mindset from anything I have been trained to do over the last 13 years. A few times I had to really slow down and fight my instincts on what to do next to avoid a procedural or safety violation.

 

.

 

 

See, we never claimed 3gun is tactically correct or anything, it is a game. Because we get shooters of all skill levels we have to have strict safety rules in place so things you might be fine with in your training are not worth the risk at a match, but you already know that

 

The thing about procedural penalties is that usually they are there for not following the course description, and the course description is there to force certain shooting challenges within the constraints of the range layout. 

 

The idea is that while the approach you take to a stage is certainly not "tactical"  (how I hate that word) the individual challenges contained within a stage test many different skills. Chain 5-6 of those skills tests into one stage, add the time pressure, and it gets kinda hard quickly. 

 

There is one difference between our local matches and other bigger matches as well, which is that often you will see a lot more choices in how to approach a stage. For example the first half of the two pit stage is more representative, you could use pistol or shotgun or both. At many matches you will see a lot more of that sort of choice to the point no two people on a squad may shoot it the same way. That is very cool and even more challenging, but because we only have a couple of hours to build and debug the stages and we have a lot of newer shooters we try to keep things "simpler" locally. 

 

I'm glad you guys had fun, and your buddy was a hero shooting the match with his foot the way it was. I hope to see you guys there again at future matches. 

[High Exposure 5,661]

Damn your black heart Vlad.....

 

I just ordered a case of Fiocchi 7/8oz slugs and two chamber flags for my long guns. I am looking at shotshell carriers and a Beretta 1301 shotgun, for my next purchases and have been watching 3-Gun vids when no one is looking...

[Vlad G 345]

Damn your black heart Vlad.....

 

I just ordered a case of Fiochi 3/4oz slugs and two chamber flags for my long guns. I am looking at shotshell carriers and a Beretta 1301 shotgun, for my next purchases and have been watching 3-Gun vids when no one is looking...

 

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand you're hooked

[louu 399]

Just wait till you shoot a 3 gun match in America, 30 round mags and about 11 in the shotgun.  After that you will be ruined.