67gtonut 847 Posted September 20, 2015 Official Statement It is a terrible tragedy when someone does not get the help that they need to prevent them from taking their own life. we are extremely sad that they chose to take this path and out thoughts and prayers are with them and the family they left behind that must now deal with this tragic event - Partner RTSP gun range Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
67gtonut 847 Posted September 20, 2015 With that being said....... I cannot reveal any details of the incident for obvious reasons.... So if you think you are going to post something you think you know.... I prefer you dont..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted September 20, 2015 Did he rent? I thought rstp required 2 people to rent Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dobie 0 Posted September 20, 2015 Did he rent? I thought rstp required 2 people to rent I've rented handguns there by myself Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dobie 0 Posted September 20, 2015 I really hate these stories. I understand the desire of the range owners to act as diplomats of the sport and rent guns to the general public. But it does serve as a magnet of sorts to someone who's mentally unbalanced and couldn't otherwise obtain a gun or just wants to go out in a very public way. There's got to be a better way. (I know I'm assuming they were a renter but I believe that has been the case in other range suicides) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted September 20, 2015 First thing Monday morning the FAMILY is going to contact a lawyer to sue RTSP. This is probably true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Howard 538 Posted September 20, 2015 Just read a story by NBC NY that the gun killed the person. The story states, "Police are investigating what happened in the moments before a man was shot and killed by his firearm at New Jersey gun range saturday evening." I guess this is a lesson to all of us to never let your gun out of your hands as it may just get up and shoot you. When will the press stop this crap? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pjd832 146 Posted September 20, 2015 I really hate these stories. I understand the desire of the range owners to act as diplomats of the sport and rent guns to the general public. But it does serve as a magnet of sorts to someone who's mentally unbalanced and couldn't otherwise obtain a gun or just wants to go out in a very public way. There's got to be a better way. (I know I'm assuming they were a renter but I believe that has been the case in other range suicides) do you have a suggestion?......"common sense rental restrictions"?...."universal background checks prior to rental"?....its always a sad thing when someone chooses suicide as their only option....but what can a business do without being ridiculous?....in the last 10 years i can count on one hand events like this in this area....yet what about those that choose to od on prescription pills or hang themselves as their method?....id say the ratio is 10,000 to one yet i don't hear people suggesting the pharmaceutical industry should "find a better way"....or stopping rope or belt sales Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhunted 887 Posted September 20, 2015 Why the fook is anyone and I mean ANYONE trying to arm chair this? Put your sympathy, condolenses, etc out there and leave the investigations to the pros.... Can't believe you ass hats! Keep the stupid comments to yourselves. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dobie 0 Posted September 21, 2015 do you have a suggestion?......"common sense rental restrictions"?...."universal background checks prior to rental"?....its always a sad thing when someone chooses suicide as their only option....but what can a business do without being ridiculous?....in the last 10 years i can count on one hand events like this in this area....yet what about those that choose to od on prescription pills or hang themselves as their method?....id say the ratio is 10,000 to one yet i don't hear people suggesting the pharmaceutical industry should "find a better way"....or stopping rope or belt sales I should clarify. My fear is that this individual may decide to take someone with him. That's not going to be the case with hangings or od's. Or his first shot goes awry and hits the poor schlub standing next to him. You want to kill yourself you'll find a way. Just don't involve me because I decided to visit the range the same day you did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dobie 0 Posted September 21, 2015 Is possessing a FID (or someone in the group possessing a FID) before you rent common sense. Or is that "crazy talk". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Redlines 202 Posted September 21, 2015 do you have a suggestion?......"common sense rental restrictions"?...."universal background checks prior to rental"?....its always a sad thing when someone chooses suicide as their only option....but what can a business do without being ridiculous?....in the last 10 years i can count on one hand events like this in this area....yet what about those that choose to od on prescription pills or hang themselves as their method?....id say the ratio is 10,000 to one yet i don't hear people suggesting the pharmaceutical industry should "find a better way"....or stopping rope or belt sales Suicide booth in end lane so that you don't hurt anyone else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pjd832 146 Posted September 21, 2015 Is possessing a FID (or someone in the group possessing a FID) before you rent common sense. Or is that "crazy talk". nj is one of 5(?) or less states that require such unconstitutional "common sense id" ...what about all the other states...should they implement our ridiculous requirements?....what about a person that has applied for their fpid and is in the 1-9 month determent "processing" period and wants to try various firearms so they may be ready for the purchase window to open?.....i think it is "crazy talk" to offer up further restrictions that will do nothing more to stop a person intent in doing harm to themselves than the bs processes(fpid/pistol permit) in place currently to stop crime......as continuing events prove Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pjd832 146 Posted September 21, 2015 I should clarify. My fear is that this individual may decide to take someone with him. That's not going to be the case with hangings or od's. Or his first shot goes awry and hits the poor schlub standing next to him. You want to kill yourself you'll find a way. Just don't involve me because I decided to visit the range the same day you did. i understand what your concerns about errant rounds..or over penetration...however your suggestion of requiring a fid card doesn't guarantee that the guy with one next to you didn't just lose his wife/job/house...and in the same bad place mentally.....you can't regulate aware mental issues or offer 100% security everywhere Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barms 98 Posted September 21, 2015 The guy who flew the plane into the mountain took out more innocent people than any guy renting a gun at a range to kill himself. Suicide by airplane innocent victims? 235. Seattle High school sophomore Suicide innocent victims? 5. Suicide gun range innocent victims ZERO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted September 21, 2015 Over 60% of all gun deaths in the US are suicide. It stands to reason this is going to be likely a when, not an if at the range especially in a state where obtaining firearms is more difficult. Its my opinion that they see this method as the most painless and quick method available and that's what draws them to use this "out". So to me this is another topic that is not a gun issue, its a mental health issue. If there were a method that was perceived as being as quick and painless and had even easier access, I suspect you would see that take the lead. But as usual, inanimate objects are sure to take the blame. I think the consideration of the safety of others in this type of event is a very real concern. A saying that I think captures the essence of the issue at hand is "Hurt people, hurt people." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Babyface Finster 45 Posted September 21, 2015 Is possessing a FID (or someone in the group possessing a FID) before you rent common sense. Or is that "crazy talk". Since I'm in favor of eliminating the whole illegal, pointless FID card nonsense in the first place, my answer would be crazy talk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,289 Posted September 21, 2015 My sincere condolences to the family and friends of the man who died. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted September 22, 2015 My condolences to the family of the victim, the RTSP family, and to those that had to witness the event. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RTSP1 67 Posted September 22, 2015 I just sat down to take the time to read through this thread and I just want to say thank you to all that have expressed their heartfelt condolences to our RTSP family and the family of the deceased. As a retired LEO and Military guy, suicide has been a fabric of my life for over 30 years. That said, every time a life is taken by ones own hand the after shock is difficult for everyone. At this point of the incident we as a family are taking the necessary steps to insure that all of our employees are in a good frame of mind and that we provide any assistance to them that they should require. Likewise we as a company are reviewing the incident and marrying it up with our current policy and procedure to see if there is, or was, anything that we could, or should, have done differently to better insure the safety of all persons that enter our facility. Safety of everyone is always our first priority. Please feel free to stop in and see me if you should have any questions, my door is always open and I will do my best to alleviate any concerns that any of you may have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alex V 99 Posted September 22, 2015 I have sympathy for the family, not the guy that offed himself. No concern for him at all. He was a selfish tool that put a business at risk and brought pain to his family. You want to off yourself? Fine, this world is over populated as it is, but why drag an innocent business and employees into it? Loss of revenue, shock and so on, the others at RTSP did not need this one bit. For that reason I have no compassion for the guy who did this. I am just glad this DBag didn't feel the need to take others with him. I feel bad for others in the range and RTSP employees, that's about it. My guess is he rented, which is why I tend to avoid places that rent guns like the plague. I have been to RTSP a few times with a member, but its the only time I will go to a place that rents guns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dobie 0 Posted September 23, 2015 Renting guns, I would guess, is an important source of revenue for ranges like RTSP and I doubt it will change. An 18 min. video; chat with a range officer, you're good to go (figuratively speaking). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HBecwithFn7 296 Posted September 23, 2015 Renting guns, I would guess, is an important source of revenue for ranges like RTSP and I doubt it will change. An 18 min. video; chat with a range officer, you're good to go (figuratively speaking). I can look at this from a number of different angles. First, When I started, I had a membership at Heritage Guild in PA. I was 3 mos. into it, and renting their weapons regularly, not owning one of my own. Then, the same incident happens there. The on-line and media chatter pointed towards them stopping rentals to those who don't own their own weapon. Thankfully, they didn't, or I'd have been screwed, having just purchased a full annual membership with no way to use it. Second angle, is that I understand the position of the range owner. S/he has to do what's best for the business. If that meant restricting rentals, then so be it. I just hope they'd be willing to work something out with any affected customer(s), as was I, almost. Third, I also see it from the point of the EMS responders. As it so happens, I serverd for 5 years on the Randolph Rescue Squad. So it very well could have been me responding to that call. My prayers are with all who had to deal with this, and with the surviving family. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted September 23, 2015 I can't blame a place for renting firearms. Its revenue and gives potential buyers a chance to try a firearm before they buy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Howard 538 Posted September 23, 2015 I can't blame a place for renting firearms. Its revenue and gives potential buyers a chance to try a firearm before they buy it. While I have no direct knowledge, I can't imagine the business model operating without renting firearms. I would guess that the lion's share of the revenue and profit come from renting firearms, range time, ammo, and targets to people that don't own guns. Without that stream of income from the "gunless" they would either go out of business or be forced to raise prices so much that they would go out of business because no one would pay those fees. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted September 23, 2015 While I have no direct knowledge, I can't imagine the business model operating without renting firearms. I would guess that the lion's share of the revenue and profit come from renting firearms, range time, ammo, and targets to people that don't own guns. Without that stream of income from the "gunless" they would either go out of business or be forced to raise prices so much that they would go out of business because no one would pay those fees. ^^^^^^The ULTIMATE "Catch-22" if there ever was one! Paying $50 - $100 an hour to go bang does seem a little "steep"........... My heartfelt condolences to everyone touched by this tragedy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alex V 99 Posted September 23, 2015 I can't blame a place for renting firearms. Its revenue and gives potential buyers a chance to try a firearm before they buy it. The rental portion is easily the most profitable in the business model. Come on! They make you buy their ammo which is well above market value and make you pay for the use of their guns which can easily serve thousands of customers before they show signs of failure. I would venture to say that stores make more money from rentals than from sales. I can't blame them either. I just try and avoid those places as much as possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtonian 453 Posted September 23, 2015 Lots of inappropriate anger and bitterness here toward everyone involved, all of whom deserve sympathy. Naa don't feel sorry for the poor bastard who killed himself. "HE FUCKED UP MY PLAYGROUND WAAAAAAAAAA!!!" And splattered his brains in the bargain. Instead feel sorry for how this makes us "look." Judging by some of these comments we already don't look too good. Then we wonder why we walk into a shop and the owner walks the other way or responds in monosyllables. It's the New Jersey way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtonian 453 Posted September 23, 2015 While I have no direct knowledge, I can't imagine the business model operating without renting firearms. I would guess that the lion's share of the revenue and profit come from renting firearms, range time, ammo, and targets to people that don't own guns. Without that stream of income from the "gunless" they would either go out of business or be forced to raise prices so much that they would go out of business because no one would pay those fees. I find this hard to believe. RTSP has one of the largest handgun offerings I've seen this side of the Delaware, plus they sell ammo and accessories. It's a large, comfortable, clean shop in a great location, and they have lots of people behind the counter. There are plenty of shops that more than survive on that business alone. They also have a range that charges, last time I went, $20/hr. How many stalls do they have? Do the math. Every time I've been there -- only during the week -- the range was nearly full. I'd imagine there'd be a decent wait on weekends. Only way to be sure without guessing and out-guessing is to ask the owner. Don't they have a forum on here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,871 Posted September 23, 2015 From one of the RTSP ROs: They've changed their rental policy to require a FID if you're solo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites