Mini 14 project

[ADK1113 1]

Not sure where to put this so I'll file it under General.

 

I have a Mini 14. The barrel has been replaced with an original length barrel (thank god cus the shadetree MIG weld job on the old one was atrocious, person I bought it from fancied themselves as a gun smith)

 

Any ways I'm looking to have the new barrel cut, crowned at 11° so I can add a FH( It'd be the one evil feature) or a comp that'll bring it to 16.25. Anyone know a place who'd do that for a fair price.

 

Addendum: yes, that is a blocked 15/40 rd magazine with the floor plate epoxied. I just love that mag for shits and giggles.

 

 

 

 

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[GRIZ 3,369]

Shortening the barrel that much serious cuts into the velocity.

 

I'd consider more barrel and less flash surpressor. You could still keep it just over 16".

[GRIZ 3,369]

The military built the XM177, CAR 15 and other versions with 10-11" barrels. They found they needed long surpressor to deal with the flash from the short barrel. Eventually they realized add a few inches to the barrel and take a few from the surpressor and you have a more effective package in the same size. The fact that none of these short barreled M16S are in the inventory today speaks for their value.

 

On the other hand if this is what floats your boat go ahead.

[ADK1113 1]

The military built the XM177, CAR 15 and other versions with 10-11" barrels. They found they needed long surpressor to deal with the flash from the short barrel. Eventually they realized add a few inches to the barrel and take a few from the surpressor and you have a more effective package in the same size. The fact that none of these short barreled M16S are in the inventory today speaks for their value.

 

On the other hand if this is what floats your boat go ahead.

I think something was lost in translation friend. The picture you see is the BEFORE picture. The gentleman I bought the rifle from chop the barrel and tack weld it that ginormous flash hider to it. Since then it has been read barrels with a full length 18.25 inch ruger mini 14 barrel. My intention is to have the barrel cut and 11° crowned at roughly 14.5 inches to allow for an A2 style flash hider or similar muzzle device of a similar size to be permanently affixed to the barrel to put it just over 16 inches

 

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[JC_68Westy 1,024]

It might be a better idea to cut and thread the barrel 16" and not have to permanently attach the flash suppressor.  You can then put whichever muzzle device you want and change it out if desired.

[ADK1113 1]

It might be a better idea to cut and thread the barrel 16" and not have to permanently attach the flash suppressor. You can then put whichever muzzle device you want and change it out if desired.

Good point. Will consider it. Know anywhere that'll do it for a fair price?

 

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[Scorpio64 5,147]

You will be better off with a 16.25" bbl and a target crown than a 14.5" bbl with a muzzle device.  I had a lengthily discussion with a ballistics engineer scientist gunsmithy guy with 50 years experience about pretty much the same issue.  Those extra inches will let more powder burn inside the barrel and give you more velocity instead of belching out fireballs from an energy sapping short barrel.

[ADK1113 1]

 

Well never the less that's still an extra 2 inches I need lopped off.

 

As of yet i haven't got an answer to my question. I do appreciate the responses though gentlemen.

 

You will be better off with a 16.25" bbl and a target crown than a 14.5" bbl with a muzzle device. I had a lengthily discussion with a ballistics engineer scientist gunsmithy guy with 50 years experience about pretty much the same issue. Those extra inches will let more powder burn inside the barrel and give you more velocity instead of belching out fireballs from an energy sapping short barrel.

In a research article presented by by Dr. Philip H. Dater & Jason Wong on 8 February, 2012 from the small arm defense journal presents a similar result.

Fig 1. Shows the decreasing velocity of the M855 cartridge starting from 20 in. All the way down to 5 inches.

 

As can be seen a 16 in. Barrel has about ~150 FPS increase compared to a 14.5 n barrel. For my purposes a 150 FPS loss is acceptable if I can mitigate As much flash and recoil, I'm thinking of something like a BCM mod 0. My father is getting back into shooting, he's been ill and frankly is old. I'd rather have him be able to shoot a weapon accurately at the cost of some FPS than have difficulty hitting his targets.

 

I'd rather thread a 16 in barrel but with his short stature I'm trying to have the weapon as short as possible and still stay above the 2500 FPS mark to balance out comfort and effectiveness.

 

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[GRIZ 3,369]

I think something was lost in translation friend. The picture you see is the BEFORE picture. The gentleman I bought the rifle from chop the barrel and tack weld it that ginormous flash hider to it. Since then it has been read barrels with a full length 18.25 inch ruger mini 14 barrel. My intention is to have the barrel cut and 11° crowned at roughly 14.5 inches to allow for an A2 style flash hider or similar muzzle device of a similar size to be permanently affixed to the barrel to put it just over 16 inches

 

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Yes my friend you didn't say that was the before photo.

[ADK1113 1]

Yes my friend you didn't say that was the before photo.

Yeah, sorry about that, got any idea where I can find a smith who'd do a cut and pin/weld job for a fair price?

 

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[mipafox 438]

 

 

I had a 40 round mag that looked just like that for my Mini in the 1980s

 

The military built the XM177, CAR 15 and other versions with 10-11" barrels. They found they needed long surpressor to deal with the flash from the short barrel. Eventually they realized add a few inches to the barrel and take a few from the surpressor and you have a more effective package in the same size. The fact that none of these short barreled M16S are in the inventory today speaks for their value.

Yeah, the Navy SEALs would never do something as stupid as to adopt an M16 with that barrel length as their default carbine

 

/sarcasm

 

*drops mic*

[ADK1113 1]

I had a 40 round mag that looked just like that for my Mini in the 1980s

 

 

Yeah, the Navy SEALs would never do something as stupid as to adopt an M16 with that barrel length as their default carbine

 

/sarcasm

 

*drops mic*

Haha it WAS a 40 rounder when i lived in VT (one of the most gun friendly states. n the union). When i came back i cut up a block of delrin and epoxied the mag plate. The looks I get at the range makes it worthwhile hahaha

 

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[GRIZ 3,369]

I had a 40 round mag that looked just like that for my Mini in the 1980s

 

Yeah, the Navy SEALs would never do something as stupid as to adopt an M16 with that barrel length as their default carbine

/sarcasm

*drops mic*

That was in the 60s and 70s over 40 years ago.

[mipafox 438]

That was in the 60s and 70s over 40 years ago.

Nope. Right now.

 

Mk 18 Mod 0

 

[DeerSlayer 241]

Yeah, sorry about that, got any idea where I can find a smith who'd do a cut and pin/weld job for a fair price?

 

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Try tier 1 defense, they're on this forum.

https://m.facebook.com/TIER1DEFENSE

[GRIZ 3,369]

Nope. Right now.

Mk 18 Mod 0

Different weapon. The Mk 18 Model 0 was specifically designed to be used with a surpressor (noise) rather than a long surpressor (flash). The short flash surpressor won't do much supressing flash with the short barrel. It will no doubt emit a good sized fireball when shot in dim light. Not so much with the surpressor (noise) in place. I doubt you will see many SEALs using a Mk 18 Model 0 in dim light or at night without the surpressor (noise). The Mk 18 Model 0 was designed to minimize length.

 

Ive fired short (10-11in) M16s with the same mod as the Mk 18 Model 0 maybe 20 years ago. They worked well with the noise surpressor fitted but the fireball without it was huge.

 

Short barrel 5.56s with effective flash surpressor and short barrel 5.56s with noise surpressor are two very different things.

[mipafox 438]

 

The military built the XM177, CAR 15 and other versions with 10-11" barrels. They found they needed long surpressor to deal with the flash from the short barrel. Eventually they realized add a few inches to the barrel and take a few from the surpressor and you have a more effective package in the same size. The fact that none of these short barreled M16S are in the inventory today speaks for their value.

Yes the SEALS use them quite a bit, they are their default carbine. They are also standard gear for Navy and Coast Guard.

 

You are adjusting your argument after being proven wrong. Twice.

 

Go on Arfcom and tell them the MK18 Mod 0 is not used much. I want to see how those turkeys respond. Send me a link, should be epic

[GRIZ 3,369]

 

 

Yes the SEALS use them quite a bit, they are their default carbine. They are also standard gear for Navy and Coast Guard.

You are adjusting your argument after being proven wrong. Twice.

Go on Arfcom and tell them the MK18 Mod 0 is not used much. I want to see how those turkeys respond. Send me a link, should be epic

We were talking short barrel with flash surpressor. You introduced short barrel with noise surpressor. A Mk 18 Model 0 is not a XM177 or CAR 15 which I've discussed. If you use one in daylight without the noise surpressor the flash won't bother you. I haven't been proven wrong, you're just looking to make yourself the authority.

 

Bringing a short barreled weapon designed to be used with a noise surpressor into a thread about one with a flash surpressor is introducing another argument. If you want to continue this discussion start a new thread.

[Scorpio64 5,147]

Well never the less that's still an extra 2 inches I need lopped off.

 

As of yet i haven't got an answer to my question. I do appreciate the responses though gentlemen.

 

 

In a research article presented by by Dr. Philip H. Dater & Jason Wong on 8 February, 2012 from the small arm defense journal presents a similar result.

Fig 1barrel6.jpg. Shows the decreasing velocity of the M855 cartridge starting from 20 in. All the way down to 5 inches.

 

As can be seen a 16 in. Barrel has about ~150 FPS increase compared to a 14.5 n barrel. For my purposes a 150 FPS loss is acceptable if I can mitigate As much flash and recoil, I'm thinking of something like a BCM mod 0. My father is getting back into shooting, he's been ill and frankly is old. I'd rather have him be able to shoot a weapon accurately at the cost of some FPS than have difficulty hitting his targets.

 

I'd rather thread a 16 in barrel but with his short stature I'm trying to have the weapon as short as possible and still stay above the 2500 FPS mark to balance out comfort and effectiveness.

 

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14.5" bbl + 2" muzzle brake = 16.5" OAL, louder and a fireball.

 

16.25" bbl plus TP = 16.25" bbl and less fireball + 150fps more.

 

The barrel lengths are virtually the same.  Do you want accuracy or do you want tacticool?

[ADK1113 1]

14.5" bbl + 2" muzzle brake = 16.5" OAL, louder and a fireball.

 

16.25" bbl plus TP = 16.25" bbl and less fireball + 150fps more.

 

The barrel lengths are virtually the same.  Do you want accuracy or do you want tacticool?

 

 

 

you seem to think that 1.5 inches makes a huge difference in accuracy. 

 

i think this explains much "http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/10/daniel-zimmerman/the-truth-about-barrel-length-muzzle-velocity-and-accuracy/"

 

and as counter-intuitive as it may seem, a shorter barrel in a pre 580 series Mini 14 has had smaller groups on multiple tests as can be seen on forums such as Perfect Union and the Ruger Forum, The thin pencil barrel of the pre 580 Mini 14s flexed a great deal. a shorter stiffer barrel helps negate that dramatically.

 

realistically this rifle won't be taking shots past 150M-200M anyways, a  distance at which I've regularly tagged with  11in. SBRs... So the argument of a 14.5 inch barrel being less accurate than a 16 inch barrel at that distance is academic.

 

and to be frank, a loss of 150 FPS, (and  several tests have put it as low as 57 FPS difference), is not a huge consideration for me. however having a Muzzle device that helps reduce as much recoil and flash as possible is important as I've previously described the situation.  If you read my first post on this thread, I actually wanted a FH which does help mitigate SOME recoil instead of a traditional muzzlebrake, which is still better than nothing. that being said even a Muzzlebrake such as a Mod 0 does a relatively effective job of redirecting the noise and flash away.

 

instead you seem to keep pressing for 16 in. bare barrel, and anything other than that is "Tacticool". there are MANY practical applications for Flash hiders, compensators and muzzlebrakes. 

 

But I'll bow to your greater judgement, I guess we should rip off the FH's from the M4's, SAWs, 240's and the muzzlebrakes from our Barrets and m2010s at my unit. 

 

all kidding aside, thanks for your responses everyone, I appreciate the help and I'll be contacting Tier 1 soon. 

is there any other gunsmith Forum regulars would recommend for a barrel chop and Pin/weld?

[Scorpio64 5,147]

 

you seem to think that 1.5 inches makes a huge difference in accuracy. 

 

 

However you do it, I'm sure it will turn out fine.  Your dad will enjoy it.  Good luck with the project.

[DeerSlayer 241]

I actually have an old ranch rifle and I installed a barrel strut on it. Greatly improves accuracy on the older pencil barrel.

[ADK1113 1]

I actually have an old ranch rifle and I installed a barrel strut on it. Greatly improves accuracy on the older pencil barrel.

I've had a question.about that. It looks like 2 small clamps attached to a rigid piece of tubing. You think a DIY version.would be effective?

 

 

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[DeerSlayer 241]

I'm sure if your somewhat handy you can make one. But they're pretty cheap. Probably more cost effective to buy one.

 

[ADK1113 1]

I'm sure if your somewhat handy you can make one. But they're pretty cheap. Probably more cost effective to buy one.

Thanks man! Trying to decide between the accu strut, the mo-rod

 

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[DeerSlayer 241]

Thanks man! Trying to decide between the accu strut, the mo-rod

 

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I have the accu-strut, and I'm happy with the performance improvement it provides. Pretty sure I ordered mine on Amazon, a couple years ago.

 

[ADK1113 1]

I have the accu-strut, and I'm happy with the performance improvement it provides. Pretty sure I ordered mine on Amazon, a couple years ago.

thanks appreciate your response did it help with vertical stringing from the barrel heating up?

[DeerSlayer 241]

thanks appreciate your response did it help with vertical stringing from the barrel heating up?

Yes it helps when the barrel gets hot.

[skruft 1]

I tried first the type called Har Bar, which would not stay on, then the Accu Strut, which does stay on and give some degree of accuracy improvement,  I do not know that it is a dramatic improvement but so far have shot 1-2" at 50yd with irons and cheap reman 55gr. ammo.