Budasac 13 Posted October 27, 2015 Please remember that these are public forums. Be smart about it. Yeah.....you never know...be mindfulThat's what I'm trying to do. I thought removing the BCGs would be good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackandjill 683 Posted October 27, 2015 Everything relating to guns in NJ is at your own peril. Most officers don't even know how to interpret the laws. So what exactly is the written law? I thought removing the BCGs from my possession would be enough to make them legit since there is no way to make a functional rifle. The issue is pretty much moot anyway as the comp will be there today and should be installed tonight. I am curious for future reference though. I'm sure I'll be building more and it's just as easy to throw the lowers in my neighbors safe if need be. I would listen to what NJPilot/Vlad/others said.... if you want to read further, I am including links here .. Nowhere in these readings does it say "a functioning semi-auto rifle", it just say "semi-auto rifle". --------- A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria: A. semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following: a folding or telescoping stock; a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; a bayonet mount; a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and a grenade launcher; --------- Reference: 1. http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/assltf.htm 2. http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/29389-read-before-posting-nj-gun-law-faq/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Budasac 13 Posted October 27, 2015 I would listen to what NJPilot/Vlad/others said.... if you want to read further, I am including links here .. Nowhere in these readings does it say "a functioning semi-auto rifle", it just say "semi-auto rifle". --------- A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria: A. semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following: a folding or telescoping stock; a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; a bayonet mount; a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and a grenade launcher; --------- Reference: 1. http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/assltf.htm 2. http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/29389-read-before-posting-nj-gun-law-faq/ Technically, if you go by those definitions, you can simply remove the pistol grip. Wouldn't that make it legal? If you have a thumbhole stock then a threaded barrel would be legit right? Just like a bolt action rifle? Just have to eliminate one of the scary components? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted October 27, 2015 Technically, if you go by those definitions, you can simply remove the pistol grip. Wouldn't that make it legal? If you have a thumbhole stock then a threaded barrel would be legit right? Just like a bolt action rifle? Just have to eliminate one of the scary components? You can do whatever you like. The laws are intentionally ambiguous so they can apply them as seen fit. If you are comfortable it's your choice. I only pointed it out initially in case you were unaware. You do your research and you do what makes you comfortable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tattooo 220 Posted October 27, 2015 That's what I'm trying to do. I thought removing the BCGs would be good.That was a good idea Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSD1026 48 Posted October 27, 2015 it's just as easy to throw the lowers in my neighbors safe if need be. erm.. is it me or is this not legal? (unless you do COE's with your neighbor since he will be in possession of the actual rifle at that point) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted October 27, 2015 erm.. is it me or is this not legal? (unless you do COE's with your neighbor since he will be in possession of the actual rifle at that point) Correct, it is not legal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Budasac 13 Posted October 28, 2015 erm.. is it me or is this not legal? (unless you do COE's with your neighbor since he will be in possession of the actual rifle at that point) Correct, it is not legal.So, it's illegal to posses the lower while building the upper but, it's also illegal to remove them from my premises? Quite a conundrum. Either way, we can all breath a sigh of relief. The brake arrived and was installed last night. It was late , so no pics but, hopefully I'll have some time tonight. The build cost me a little more then I was planning but it's set up exactly how I want it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted October 28, 2015 The build cost me a little more then I was planning but it's set up exactly how I want it. No, you saved money. Saved 15% Federal Excise Tax on assembled rifles, got exactly what you want, no useless parts laying around in drawers. I'd say you got a bargain. Only thing about old parts laying around in drawers is, after a while you can build a "beater" and try to recoup the money you lost in the beginning. Good Luck with it, I'm sure you will enjoy it. Almost forgot, now you know exactly how it works. Fun, isn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n4p226r 105 Posted October 28, 2015 Perhaps because it's discontinued and no longer available!! i use this from home depot. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Crown-Bolt-1-4-in-x-2-in-Zinc-Plated-Universal-Clevis-Pin-88008/202210286 just make sure you get the right size. i just linked based on picture. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n4p226r 105 Posted October 28, 2015 Better safe than sorry. I removed the fire control group from two AR lowers and had a friend sit on them until I made my threaded uppers compliant. The NJ legal system is absurd and I am not taking ANY chances. Unfortunately, the only way to protect one's self from NJ's absurd laws is to do something equally as absurd. should have given him the pistol grips. ARs without fire control groups would still be assault weapons Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n4p226r 105 Posted October 28, 2015 I'm sure I'll be building more and it's just as easy to throw the lowers in my neighbors safe if need be. make sure you fill out a COE when you give them to him and another when he gives them back Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n4p226r 105 Posted October 28, 2015 That's what I'm trying to do. I thought removing the BCGs would be good. why would you think that? the lower receiver is the firearm. does it have a pistol grip attached? does it use removable magazines? does it have an adjustable stock? do you have a threaded barrel? do you have a grenade launcher? do you have a bayonet lug? does it have a pinned flash suppressor? you only get to answer yes two times. after that it's illegal. there is nothing in there about a trigger, or a bolt carrier group, or sights, or ammo, or anything else. or you could just not post pictures on the internet, build the thing relatively quick, and call it a day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Budasac 13 Posted October 28, 2015 No, you saved money. Saved 15% Federal Excise Tax on assembled rifles, got exactly what you want, no useless parts laying around in drawers. I'd say you got a bargain. Only thing about old parts laying around in drawers is, after a while you can build a "beater" and try to recoup the money you lost in the beginning. Good Luck with it, I'm sure you will enjoy it. Almost forgot, now you know exactly how it works. Fun, isn't it? Oh, I agree. I definitely saved money building it myself. I simply spent more then I thought I would on the build. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Budasac 13 Posted October 28, 2015 should have given him the pistol grips. ARs without fire control groups would still be assault weaponsThis is what I think I'll be doing in the future. After looking at the statute cited in a previous post, removing the pistol grips seems to be the easiest way to stay within the letter of the law. However, since it was brought up. What if I own an "AR" with a thumbhole stock. That would allow me to have an upper on it with a flash hider correct? Then, I also own a another "AR" with a pistol grip and a compliant upper. Wouldn't it then be illegal to posses both since I could take one lower, combine it with another upper and have a banned weapon. No different then building an upper and having a complete lower on another rifle right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tattooo 220 Posted October 28, 2015 This is what I think I'll be doing in the future. After looking at the statute cited in a previous post, removing the pistol grips seems to be the easiest way to stay within the letter of the law. However, since it was brought up. What if I own an "AR" with a thumbhole stock. That would allow me to have an upper on it with a flash hider correct? Then, I also own a another "AR" with a pistol grip and a compliant upper. Wouldn't it then be illegal to posses both since I could take one lower, combine it with another upper and have a banned weapon. No different then building an upper and having a complete lower on another rifle right? That is a good & technical question ? ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n4p226r 105 Posted October 28, 2015 This is what I think I'll be doing in the future. After looking at the statute cited in a previous post, removing the pistol grips seems to be the easiest way to stay within the letter of the law. However, since it was brought up. What if I own an "AR" with a thumbhole stock. That would allow me to have an upper on it with a flash hider correct? Then, I also own a another "AR" with a pistol grip and a compliant upper. Wouldn't it then be illegal to posses both since I could take one lower, combine it with another upper and have a banned weapon. No different then building an upper and having a complete lower on another rifle right? whenever i read something like this i first thing logically. the ATF allows you to own NFA guns and non NFA guns. so if you had a short barreled rifle or a AR pistol, and a regular AR, you could easily turn your non-SBR/pistol AR into a SBR. but they don't bust you on it. This would be very similar to what you asked. But then i think that THIS IS NEW JERSEY SO LOGIC DOESNT COUNT (not shouting, thats just how i think it) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Budasac 13 Posted October 28, 2015 But, if you follow that logic, then there would be no need to remove complete lowers that belong to other rifles when building an upper, because the only lower that should matter is the one that is being mated to that upper. Otherwise, you would never be able to posses multiple legal rifles that, when combined, would result in a banned weapon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted October 28, 2015 But, if you follow that logic, then there would be no need to remove complete lowers that belong to other rifles when building an upper, because the only lower that should matter is the one that is being mated to that upper. Otherwise, you would never be able to posses multiple legal rifles that, when combined, would result in a banned weapon. That logic is correct. You can have 1 lower and 10 uppers. It doesn't matter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n4p226r 105 Posted October 28, 2015 But, if you follow that logic, then there would be no need to remouve complete lowers that belong to other rifles when building an upper, because the only lower that should matter is the one that is being mated to that upper. Otherwise, you would never be able to posses multiple legal rifles that, when combined, would result in a banned weapon. when there is no legal definition defined, the only question is "what do you think a judge and jury will think" based on your interactions with people in New Jersey. Couple that with "what are the chances of me getting caught in the X amount of time it takes for me to honestly attempt to comply with the law. double that. take the square root of pie. eat some taylor ham. and call it a day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schrödinger's cat 87 Posted October 28, 2015 Lol That, and not posting pictures until it's done Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njpilot 671 Posted October 28, 2015 or you could just not post pictures on the internet, build the thing relatively quick, and call it a day. Lol That, and not posting pictures until it's done Kinda what I suggested to begin with Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Budasac 13 Posted October 28, 2015 LolThat, and not posting pictures until it's doneYeah, yeah. I'm working late tonight but hopefully I'll have some time when I get home to post a finished pic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Budasac 13 Posted October 28, 2015 So, here's the build list: Stag lower with engraving. $160 Lower Parts Kit. $33 Magpul grip. $25 Anderson Upper. $65 Anderson M4 barrel. $90 Anderson BCG. $95 Troy low profile gas block. $33 Spikes Tactical Black Melonite gas tube. $14 BCM Gunfighter charging handle. $38 Ace Entry skeleton stock. $104 Recoil Pad. $12 Buffer. $10 buffer Spring 5 Midwest Industries SS series handguard. $150 RRA National Match trigger. $69 Troy Medieval Brake. $40 Hand guard cap. $8 Skeleton Trigger Guard. $15 Upper parts kit. $18 Just shy of $1000. Like I said before, more than I was thought I would spend but, not too bad for what I ended up with. Now I just need some sights. I may just throw on a scope I have laying around for now so I can shoot it while I figure out what kind of sights I want to go with. I was also debating a red dot with a flip to the side magnifier but, it sort of goes against my desire for a clean uncluttered rifle. In the end it will probably just be a set of high quality pop up sights. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,552 Posted October 28, 2015 So, here's the build list: Stag lower with engraving. $160 Lower Parts Kit. $33 Magpul grip. $25 Anderson Upper. $65 Anderson M4 barrel. $90 Anderson BCG. $95 Troy low profile gas block. $33 Spikes Tactical Black Melonite gas tube. $14 BCM Gunfighter charging handle. $38 Ace Entry skeleton stock. $104 Recoil Pad. $12 Buffer. $10 buffer Spring 5 Midwest Industries SS series handguard. $150 RRA National Match trigger. $69 Troy Medieval Brake. $40 Hand guard cap. $8 Skeleton Trigger Guard. $15 Upper parts kit. $18 Just shy of $1000. Like I said before, more than I was thought I would spend but, not too bad for what I ended up with. Now I just need some sights. I may just throw on a scope I have laying around for now so I can shoot it while I figure out what kind of sights I want to go with. I was also debating a red dot with a flip to the side magnifier but, it sort of goes against my desire for a clean in cluttered rifle. In the end it will probably just be a set of high quality pop up sights. You forgot the buffer tube. Transfer fee and nics, and paying someone to pin the brake. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Budasac 13 Posted October 29, 2015 You forgot the buffer tube. Transfer fee and nics, and paying someone to pin the brake.Buffer tube came with the stock, nics is included in the price of the lower, brake is done. No need to pay anyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,569 Posted October 29, 2015 Screw your mag release button in until the bolt is even with the end of the button. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Budasac 13 Posted October 29, 2015 Screw your mag release button in until the bolt is even with the end of the button.You either have good eyes or a big monitor. Nice catch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites