There was an incident at RTSP today

[JoeGuns 14]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Very well put!

[jeffsolo 1]

I'm at a loss for words on this one.  My thoughts and prayers are with all those affected. My hope is that some way can be found to prevent this from recurring.  I have the greatest respect for everyone at RTSP and wish them only good things going forward.

[fishnut 2,357]

just to play devils advocate here for a minute. while I think a public suicide where others can witness it or could be injured is completely selfish and wrong such as this latest one at RSTP. How do you guys feel about someone who is terminally ill and suffering committing suicide without witnesses or putting anyone else in harms way?  I have had a close family member and an even closer friend attempt or contemplate suicide due to depression and personally I think that's a cowards way out. both of them were not successful and got treatment for their depression and are now functioning members of society and both are glad that they were not successful. However I recently had a friend who was diagnosed with a terminal illness and was in allot of pain and did not want to suffer the last few months of his life so he took his own life and ended his suffering. but he did it in the confines of his own home where there were no witnesses and he overdosed so no one else was put in harms way. If I was put in his shoes I would almost definitely do the same thing, why would you want to spend the last few months of your life suffering. I have personally seen someone die of terminal cancer and she suffered for months and the day before she dies she said she wished that she wrote (because she could not talk) that she wished she would have ended it months ago. I will remember that conversation for the rest of my life. Now as I sit here writing this I feel quite a bit of guilt because my grandmother who I am very close with is lying in a hospital dying. she is 90 and has been slowly going down hill the past few years. about a year or so ago when she had a bad spell she made a comment about shooting her self to end it all. well I was being selfish (my opinion) and I wanted to keep here around as long as possible so I removed her fathers pistol .38 from her night stand so she could not go through with it. she rallied a little bit but is now completely bed ridden and needs an aid just to use a bed pan. That's no way to live out the end of your life in my opinion. I now understand and wish that I did not take her gun. Now my wife and I have a baby on the way (her first great grand child) and I think she is going to hang on until the baby is born but I have mixed emotions about this because while I want here to see her first great grand kid I don't want her to suffer either. its a tough situation for me to be in but its all out of my control so I just have to wait and see how it plays out. Sorry for kinda deviating from the topic a bit but just writing this has made me feel a little better. FYI I do not have possession of her revolver it is at another family members house in another state so please no shit about illegal transfers.

[AVB-AMG 530]

fishnet: I feel the same as you in that scenario....

AVB-AMG

[HBecwithFn7 286]

just to play devils advocate here for a minute. while I think a public suicide where others can witness it or could be injured is completely selfish and wrong such as this latest one at RSTP. How do you guys feel about someone who is terminally ill and suffering committing suicide without witnesses or putting anyone else in harms way? 

 

I don't have any issues with "termination of life" when it's in response to a terminal illness where all that's left is a lot of suffering and pain. It should be the patient's decision and agreed to by two physicians, etc. etc. (i.e. that there are no other therapeutic options and little or no quality of life remaining). As far as witnesses, I guess if some family/friends want to be there to see the patient off, that should be permitted if desired by both parties. But I wouldn't want it to be a "violent" departure (i.e. gun, suffocation, etc.). Give the patient enough drugs to do it, and let the patient ingest them on their own, assuming they have the physical capability to do so.  If they don't, that's a bit of a problem, as I'm not sure anyone should be allowed to help the patient ingest them.

[fishnut 2,357]

^ Yeah I agree. that's why someone needs to pick up where Dr. Kevorkian left off, in my opinion. from what I understand he devised numerous devices to help people end their life because they could not physically do it them selves. 

[Krdshrk 3,328]

Fishnut - I hope she hangs around through to see your kid born.  My Grandfather didn't make it - he passed a couple months before my daughter was born.  

[fishnut 2,357]

If she is not suffering to much I really hope she does hang on but if she is miserable and in pain it will weigh heavy on me if she pushes through it suffering the whole time

[Krdshrk 3,328]

If she is not suffering to much I really hope she does hang on but if she is miserable and in pain it will weigh heavy on me if she pushes through it suffering the whole time

 

Think of how much joy she'll have to meet her great grandkid though.  My remaining grandparents love my kid.

[tattooo 220]

fishnet: I feel the same as you on that scenario....

AVB-AMG

I have to also agree

[fishnut 2,357]

Think of how much joy she'll have to meet her great grandkid though.  My remaining grandparents love my kid.

Oh yeah no doubt. she is super excited about us having a kid hence my mixed emotions about the whole thing.  

[Schrödinger's cat 85]

Fishnut - I hope she hangs around through to see your kid born. My Grandfather didn't make it - he passed a couple months before my daughter was born.

I agree. My grandmother has a lot of pain and has signed all the do not revive papers. But the one thing that gives her joy is all her children grandchildren and great grandchildren calling and skyping her every week.

[CMJeepster 2,063]

no details yet....hopefully not another suicide

 

 

http://www.nj.com/morris/index.ssf/2015/11/authorities_investigate_incident_at_randolph_gun_r.html#incart_river_home

And those comments are why I can't read comments on nj.com anymore.

[SuRrEaLNJ 293]

im not condoning what the guy did. theres no reason to drag anyone else into it. however this is showing me exactly the problem that we have with mental ilness in this country. just because you cant see an illness dosnt mean its not there. visible symptoms are just the tip of the iceberg

[AverageJoe 95]

just to play devils advocate here for a minute. while I think a public suicide where others can witness it or could be injured is completely selfish and wrong such as this latest one at RSTP. How do you guys feel about someone who is terminally ill and suffering committing suicide without witnesses or putting anyone else in harms way?  I have had a close family member and an even closer friend attempt or contemplate suicide due to depression and personally I think that's a cowards way out. both of them were not successful and got treatment for their depression and are now functioning members of society and both are glad that they were not successful. However I recently had a friend who was diagnosed with a terminal illness and was in allot of pain and did not want to suffer the last few months of his life so he took his own life and ended his suffering. but he did it in the confines of his own home where there were no witnesses and he overdosed so no one else was put in harms way. If I was put in his shoes I would almost definitely do the same thing, why would you want to spend the last few months of your life suffering. I have personally seen someone die of terminal cancer and she suffered for months and the day before she dies she said she wished that she wrote (because she could not talk) that she wished she would have ended it months ago. I will remember that conversation for the rest of my life. Now as I sit here writing this I feel quite a bit of guilt because my grandmother who I am very close with is lying in a hospital dying. she is 90 and has been slowly going down hill the past few years. about a year or so ago when she had a bad spell she made a comment about shooting her self to end it all. well I was being selfish (my opinion) and I wanted to keep here around as long as possible so I removed her fathers pistol .38 from her night stand so she could not go through with it. she rallied a little bit but is now completely bed ridden and needs an aid just to use a bed pan. That's no way to live out the end of your life in my opinion. I now understand and wish that I did not take her gun. Now my wife and I have a baby on the way (her first great grand child) and I think she is going to hang on until the baby is born but I have mixed emotions about this because while I want here to see her first great grand kid I don't want her to suffer either. its a tough situation for me to be in but its all out of my control so I just have to wait and see how it plays out. Sorry for kinda deviating from the topic a bit but just writing this has made me feel a little better. FYI I do not have possession of her revolver it is at another family members house in another state so please no shit about illegal transfers.

 

 

^ Yeah I agree. that's why someone needs to pick up where Dr. Kevorkian left off, in my opinion. from what I understand he devised numerous devices to help people end their life because they could not physically do it them selves. 

 

Some years ago there was an HBO Documentary "How To Die In Oregon." They have the answer to this very thing IMO. The problem with Dr. K was he was the one that was actually taking the life. In Oregon they have "Physician Assisted Suicide" if you will, and its for the terminally ill. If they qualify, the doctor writes a script for the cocktail but the patient is administering it to themselves and thats it. Puts you to sleep then stops the heart. A must see.

 

http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/how-to-die-in-oregon/synopsis.html

[jeffsolo 1]

            Physician assisted (or anyone who assists for that matter) suicide is a very different animal (and topic) than what we have here.  That involves a thorough process by the individual-he/she is going through the last stages of a surely terminal disease.  These people appear to take steps to put their life in order and also usually prepare their families. This type of person may not want to further burden others with the direction his/her life is going. 

             These cases seem to involve a very different type of person in a very different position in life. It seems to me the person who goes into a private business to end it all does not care who gets negatively affected by the action.

             I can empathize with the assisted suicide person even though I'm pretty certain it's not a path I'd choose, The person who is selfish and self-centered enough to not care about the after-consequences gets very little sympathy from me

[dobie 0]

When I first saw this thread I thought it was some latecomer comment to the earlier suicide. It's difficult to believe this has happened twice

 

This is shocking and tragic for everyone involved.

 

I was just thinking that now that my business has slowed down for the holidays I would take a day to go to RTSP, which is the only range I go to.

 

But admittedly this is disconcerting and you wonder if those similarly inclined begin to identify RTSP as the suicide range.

 

As much as I like the facility and people who work there it gives you pause

[djg0770 470]

As much as I like the facility and people who work there it gives you pause

Hmm. I hope u stay away from NJ Transit's "suicide train" and the George Washington "suicide bridge".

 

/rolleyes/

[dobie 0]

Driving across a bridge where someone jumps

is nowhere near the same as the guy standing next to me pointing his gun anywhere other than down range. C'mon get real. Dumb comparisons.

[Sota 1,174]

Your comparison is equally moronic.

[bulpup 98]

"In that millisecond, it was an instant regret"

 

From "I Jumped Off the Golden Gate Bridge"

 

[jglass38 0]

Sorry to see this happened again at rtsp. I'm a member and they do a really great job there. After the last shooting I was hoping they would institute a no rental policy for shooters who come in alone. They apparently only applied it to first time renters. Now it looks like their range rules have been updated to include:

 

Shooting is always more fun with friends! All shooters who are renting must be in groups of 2 or more. No single shooters will be allowed to rent firearms. (Exceptions: Active and Retired LEO and holders of a valid state issued firearms ID card. ID must be present at the time of rental.)

 

While you will never stop someone intent on harming themselves or others, this is a great policy in my opinion to limit the risk somewhat.

 

Jamie

[JackDaWack 2,642]

 

But admittedly this is disconcerting and you wonder if those similarly inclined begin to identify RTSP as the suicide range.

 

 

 i get your concern but lets be real, suicides happen at every range eventually.  RTSP isn't the first and it wont be the last. Personally, no range in NJ or anywhere you go to is really that safe, Its only as safe as the experience of the people who are currently on the line. Know your surroundings or join a members only range where accidents are still likely to happen eventually.

[tattooo 220]

Sureshot had a shit ton of em & brick armory before they got shut down had one too.....it happens more often than we think