Rob0115 1,105 Posted December 2, 2015 I'm curious how this works. If I build a pistol out of a AR how come it's not illegal if I own another rifle? I could put the upper on that lower and it's an SBR. It's like having a non-compliant upper in your home if you own another rifle. How does the pistol get around it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njJoniGuy 2,131 Posted December 2, 2015 The jersey-legal AR pistols do not use the standard AR-rifle carrier/buffer/spring assemblies. So putting one of my jersey-legal AR pistol uppers on a standard lower, it would be non-functional And it would exceed the allowable Evil Feature count. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted December 2, 2015 The jersey-legal AR pistols do not use the standard AR-rifle carrier/buffer/spring assemblies. So putting one of my jersey-legal AR pistol uppers on a standard lower, it would be non-functional And it would exceed the allowable Evil Feature count. Carbon 15 does actually use a standard upper/carrier/buffer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frank Rizzo 59 Posted December 2, 2015 Is a Carbon 15 version NJ legal? Whats the law on these things here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tattooo 220 Posted December 2, 2015 Cant be over 50 ounces or have a shroud if I remember correctly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted December 2, 2015 Is a Carbon 15 version NJ legal? Whats the law on these things here? Yes - it's the only AR pistol besides the Extar EXP 556 that is NJ Legal. Mostly due to weight and removal of the barrel shroud. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted December 2, 2015 so if I built a 458 pistol using standard parts with no shroud and it weighed less than 50 oz it's good? Let's say no NJ legal for Florida where there are no limitations. What's the constructive intent of having many ARs one being a pistol that can be connected to another lower? Is that putting too much thought into it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted December 2, 2015 So you're technically asking what's going to stop you from pulling off the upper from a Pistol and throwing it on a regular rifle lower, therefore creating a SBR? Nothing... except the law... But just possessing them for the specific guns, you're fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted December 2, 2015 So you're technically asking what's going to stop you from pulling off the upper from a Pistol and throwing it on a regular rifle lower, therefore creating a SBR? Nothing... except the law... But just possessing them for the specific guns, you're fine. That's my question. I don't want to break any laws. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted December 2, 2015 Or even if you have a spare upper sitting around - doesn't have to be for a specific gun... as long as it's not attached, you're fine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted December 2, 2015 The Professional Ordnance Carbon-15, the Bushmaster Carbon-15, and the Olympic Arms OA-98 were the only AR pistols built that were NJ legal. All are discontinued. The Extar EXP556 is currently the only one that is NJ legal in a modified configuration by Estrella Ordnance. It is manufactured under 50 ounces from the factory. I have yet to see an individual build an AR pistol under that threshold. ETA: Pictures Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njJoniGuy 2,131 Posted December 2, 2015 Carbon 15 does actually use a standard upper/carrier/buffer Both my Bushmaster Carbon 15 and my Professional Ordnance Carbon 15 use a shorter-than-standard carrier (though same bolt as normal) and a skinny buffer spring that rides over a long plastic pin that is permanently affixed to the center of the buffer tube assembly. The buffer/weight lives at the back of the short carrier and when combined with the length of the carrier, is longer than a standard AR carrier assembly. I cannot put either of these 2 uppers on a standard lower and make the gun work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted December 2, 2015 Both my Bushmaster Carbon 15 and my Professional Ordnance Carbon 15 use a shorter-than-standard carrier (though same bolt as normal) and a skinny buffer spring that rides over a long plastic pin that is permanently affixed to the center of the buffer tube assembly. The buffer/weight lives at the back of the short carrier and when combined with the length of the carrier, is longer than a standard AR carrier assembly. I cannot put either of these 2 uppers on a standard lower and make the gun work. I stand corrected. I thought it was a standard carrier. Other AR Pistols that are available outside of NJ tend to use standard BCG/Buffers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted December 2, 2015 Added pics to my previous post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted December 2, 2015 There is a thread on Arfcom about ultralight AR builds you may want to look at if you are interested in doing something weird that's not OTS. I seem to remember one guy making about a 3 pounder and it was NOT a pistol. There may be some ideas or there may not, I am not sure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njJoniGuy 2,131 Posted December 2, 2015 My ProOrd is of such age that it has an unfluted, non-stainless barrel without the quick-connect feature on the muzzle. My compensator is allen-screwed to a groove just back from the muzzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njJoniGuy 2,131 Posted December 2, 2015 I stand corrected. I thought it was a standard carrier. Other AR Pistols that are available outside of NJ tend to use standard BCG/Buffers. Yes, because there's no weight restriction on an AR pistol in Free America, just here behind enemy lines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted December 2, 2015 I'm going to keep it in the United State of America, not New Jersey. I just want to make sure that having something marked as a pistol can't be a problem. I want to use it while I am waiting for a stamp with a pistol buffer tube. I have an Aeroprecision ghost lower and they make a 458 upper with port milled, with door and FA and marked 458. I'm looking at a black hole weaponry 7.5" bbl and the carbon fiber hand guard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted December 2, 2015 You can't use it in NJ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tattooo 220 Posted December 3, 2015 If its cool its illegal here....lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted December 3, 2015 You can't use it in NJ. Can't use what? The pistol? I wouldn't dream of using it in NJ. I'll keep that one in FL. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Polak 3 Posted December 3, 2015 Carbon 15 does actually use a standard upper/carrier/buffer Not my carbon 15. All proprietary parts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n4p226r 105 Posted December 3, 2015 is there an actual purpose to an AR pistol? besides the obvious "because i can" or "it looks cool"??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted December 3, 2015 is there an actual purpose to an AR pistol? besides the obvious "because i can" or "it looks cool"??? tiny form factor.. rifle round... high capacity.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted December 3, 2015 is there an actual purpose to an AR pistol? besides the obvious "because i can" or "it looks cool"??? Basically a SBR without the designation and tax stamp. My Extar EXP 556 in all it's NJ Legal glory. I actually have to add on a magwell grip... Haven't had time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted December 4, 2015 is there an actual purpose to an AR pistol? besides the obvious "because i can" or "it looks cool"???The reasons you point out and I'll eventually SBR it but I want it now before the stamp. The 458 performs well in short barrels. I filled out the form today and need to mail it for the stamp. Unfortunately the shitty online system craps out when I pick my brand lower and 458 caliber. All the reasons Vlad points out as well. I may use it for hunting and I have a can that will handle the round. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
locochinoloco 0 Posted December 4, 2015 I think it is a cool toy, but the velocity will make you wonder if it's a good 'defense gun'. http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=1093 I load Hornady 55gr FMJ over IMR 4895 @ 25gr with CCI SRP and shoot it out of a 8.5" 1:7 5.56 barrel these are the results. Using a suppressor make a slight difference in velocity ~5fps or so.. So if you're inside a house when a round goes off without ear pro, you will not be a happy camper. High: 2256, Low: 2143, Avg: 2207, Extreme Spread: 113, Std Dev: 45 The same load out of a 16" 1:7 5.56 get me this. High: 2830, Low: 2737, Avg: 2780, Extreme Spread: 93, Std Dev: 33 Using 5.56 will probably get you better velocity, but I forgot to bring the ammo to try. I think Form1 takes about 4 months now, I just put another one in a few weeks ago also. I believe you can mate any upper to a SBR lower, so why not just put 5.56/.223? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted December 4, 2015 You really are not supposed to change the configuration from what you put on the tax stamp. A lot of people think that you register the lower and have at it but my Gun Trust lawyer told that's not legal. Will you get caught? Probably not but the guns are to be stored in the registered configuration according to the law. I just printed off the form 1 this morning and it took 5 minutes to fill out. I have to mail in another suppressor application (Ti-Rant 45 real nice) so I'll send this puppy along too. I'm going broke on tax stamps. It's like being on a diet and then binging I can't stop registering stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted December 4, 2015 You really are not supposed to change the configuration from what you put on the tax stamp. A lot of people think that you register the lower and have at it but my Gun Trust lawyer told that's not legal. Will you get caught? Probably not but the guns are to be stored in the registered configuration according to the law. I just printed off the form 1 this morning and it took 5 minutes to fill out. I have to mail in another suppressor application (Ti-Rant 45 real nice) so I'll send this puppy along too. I'm going broke on tax stamps. It's like being on a diet and then binging I can't stop registering stuff! No truth to this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njpilot 671 Posted December 4, 2015 No truth to this. I've read the same thing. Not knocking your gun trust lawyer Rob, but many people on NFA forums have said you can change calibers with no problems. I don't know your guy, but not all gun trust lawyers know all the ins and outs. I just received my E Form 1 approval a few weeks ago, just past 4 months. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites