AR Pistols

[Rob0115 1,101]

I'm curious how this works.  If I build a pistol out of a AR how come it's not illegal if I own another rifle?  I could put the upper on that lower and it's an SBR.  It's like having a non-compliant upper in your home if you own another rifle.  How does the pistol get around it?

[njJoniGuy 1,923]

The jersey-legal AR pistols do not use the standard AR-rifle carrier/buffer/spring assemblies.

So putting one of my jersey-legal AR pistol uppers on a standard lower, it would be non-functional

And it would exceed the allowable Evil Feature count.

[Krdshrk 3,332]

The jersey-legal AR pistols do not use the standard AR-rifle carrier/buffer/spring assemblies.

So putting one of my jersey-legal AR pistol uppers on a standard lower, it would be non-functional

And it would exceed the allowable Evil Feature count.

 

Carbon 15 does actually use a standard upper/carrier/buffer

[Frank Rizzo 57]

Is a Carbon 15 version NJ legal?  Whats the law on these things here? 

[tattooo 220]

Cant be over 50 ounces or have a shroud if I remember correctly

[Krdshrk 3,332]

Is a Carbon 15 version NJ legal?  Whats the law on these things here? 

Yes - it's the only AR pistol besides the Extar EXP 556 that is NJ Legal.  Mostly due to weight and removal of the barrel shroud.

[Rob0115 1,101]

so if I built a 458 pistol using standard parts with no shroud and it weighed less than 50 oz it's good?  Let's say no NJ legal for Florida where there are no limitations.  What's the constructive intent of having many ARs one being a pistol that can be connected to another lower?  Is that putting too much thought into it? 

[Krdshrk 3,332]

So you're technically asking what's going to stop you from pulling off the upper from a Pistol and throwing it on a regular rifle lower, therefore creating a SBR?

 

Nothing... except the law... But just possessing them for the specific guns, you're fine.  

[Rob0115 1,101]

So you're technically asking what's going to stop you from pulling off the upper from a Pistol and throwing it on a regular rifle lower, therefore creating a SBR?

 

Nothing... except the law... But just possessing them for the specific guns, you're fine.  

That's my question.  I don't want to break any laws.  Thanks.  

[Krdshrk 3,332]

Or even if you have a spare upper sitting around - doesn't have to be for a specific gun... as long as it's not attached, you're fine

[PK90 3,469]

The Professional Ordnance Carbon-15, the Bushmaster Carbon-15, and the Olympic Arms OA-98 were the only AR pistols built that were NJ legal. All are discontinued. The Extar EXP556 is currently the only one that is NJ legal in a modified configuration by Estrella Ordnance. It is manufactured under 50 ounces from the factory. I have yet to see an individual build an AR pistol under that threshold.

 

ETA: Pictures

[njJoniGuy 1,923]

Carbon 15 does actually use a standard upper/carrier/buffer

Both my Bushmaster Carbon 15 and my Professional Ordnance Carbon 15 use a shorter-than-standard carrier (though same bolt as normal) and a skinny buffer spring that rides over a long plastic pin that is permanently affixed to the center of the buffer tube assembly.

The buffer/weight lives at the back of the short carrier and when combined with the length of the carrier, is longer than a standard AR carrier assembly.

 

I cannot put either of these 2 uppers on a standard lower and make the gun work.

[Krdshrk 3,332]

Both my Bushmaster Carbon 15 and my Professional Ordnance Carbon 15 use a shorter-than-standard carrier (though same bolt as normal) and a skinny buffer spring that rides over a long plastic pin that is permanently affixed to the center of the buffer tube assembly.

The buffer/weight lives at the back of the short carrier and when combined with the length of the carrier, is longer than a standard AR carrier assembly.

 

I cannot put either of these 2 uppers on a standard lower and make the gun work.

I stand corrected.  I thought it was a standard carrier.

 

Other AR Pistols that are available outside of NJ tend to use standard BCG/Buffers.

[PK90 3,469]

Added pics to my previous post.

[mipafox 438]

There is a thread on Arfcom about ultralight AR builds you may want to look at if you are interested in doing something weird that's not OTS. I seem to remember one guy making about a 3 pounder and it was NOT a pistol. There may be some ideas or there may not, I am not sure.

[njJoniGuy 1,923]

My ProOrd is of such age that it has an unfluted, non-stainless barrel without the quick-connect feature on the muzzle.

My compensator is allen-screwed to a groove just back from the muzzle.

[njJoniGuy 1,923]

I stand corrected.  I thought it was a standard carrier.

 

Other AR Pistols that are available outside of NJ tend to use standard BCG/Buffers.

Yes, because there's no weight restriction on an AR pistol in Free America, just here behind enemy lines.

[Rob0115 1,101]

I'm going to keep it in the United State of America, not New Jersey.   I just want to make sure that having something marked as a pistol can't be a problem.  I want to use it while I am waiting for a stamp with a pistol buffer tube.  

 

 I have an Aeroprecision ghost lower and they make a 458 upper with port milled, with door and FA and marked 458. I'm looking at a black hole weaponry 7.5" bbl and the carbon fiber hand guard.  

[PK90 3,469]

You can't use it in NJ.

[tattooo 220]

If its cool its illegal here....lol

 

[Rob0115 1,101]

You can't use it in NJ.

Can't use what? The pistol? I wouldn't dream of using it in NJ. I'll keep that one in FL.

[Polak 3]

Carbon 15 does actually use a standard upper/carrier/buffer

Not my carbon 15. All proprietary parts.

[n4p226r 105]

is there an actual purpose to an AR pistol?  besides the obvious "because i can" or "it looks cool"???

[vladtepes 1,060]

is there an actual purpose to an AR pistol?  besides the obvious "because i can" or "it looks cool"???

 

tiny form factor.. rifle round... high capacity.. 

[Krdshrk 3,332]

is there an actual purpose to an AR pistol?  besides the obvious "because i can" or "it looks cool"???

 

Basically a SBR without the designation and tax stamp.

 

My Extar EXP 556 in all it's NJ Legal glory.  I actually have to add on a magwell grip...  Haven't had time.

[Rob0115 1,101]

is there an actual purpose to an AR pistol? besides the obvious "because i can" or "it looks cool"???

The reasons you point out and I'll eventually SBR it but I want it now before the stamp. The 458 performs well in short barrels. I filled out the form today and need to mail it for the stamp. Unfortunately the shitty online system craps out when I pick my brand lower and 458 caliber. All the reasons Vlad points out as well.

 

I may use it for hunting and I have a can that will handle the round.

[locochinoloco 0]

I think it is a cool toy, but the velocity will make you wonder if it's a good 'defense gun'.  http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=1093

 

I load Hornady 55gr FMJ over IMR 4895 @ 25gr with CCI SRP and shoot it out of a 8.5" 1:7 5.56 barrel these are the results.  Using a suppressor make a slight difference in velocity ~5fps or so..  So if you're inside a house when a round goes off without ear pro, you will not be a happy camper.

 

High: 2256, Low: 2143, Avg: 2207, Extreme Spread: 113, Std Dev: 45 

 

The same load out of a 16" 1:7 5.56 get me this.

 

High: 2830, Low: 2737, Avg: 2780, Extreme Spread: 93, Std Dev: 33 

 

Using 5.56 will probably get you better velocity, but I forgot to bring the ammo to try.

 

I think Form1 takes about 4 months now, I just put another one in a few weeks ago also.  I believe you can mate any upper to a SBR lower, so why not just put 5.56/.223?

[Rob0115 1,101]

You really are not supposed to change the configuration from what you put on the tax stamp.  A lot of people think that you register the lower and have at it but my Gun Trust lawyer told that's not legal.  Will you get caught?  Probably not but the guns are to be stored in the registered configuration according to the law.

 

I just printed off the form 1 this morning and it took 5 minutes to fill out.  I have to mail in another suppressor application (Ti-Rant 45 real nice) so I'll send this puppy along too.  I'm going broke on tax stamps.  It's like being on a diet and then binging I can't stop registering stuff!  

[mipafox 438]

 

You really are not supposed to change the configuration from what you put on the tax stamp.  A lot of people think that you register the lower and have at it but my Gun Trust lawyer told that's not legal.  Will you get caught?  Probably not but the guns are to be stored in the registered configuration according to the law.

 

I just printed off the form 1 this morning and it took 5 minutes to fill out.  I have to mail in another suppressor application (Ti-Rant 45 real nice) so I'll send this puppy along too.  I'm going broke on tax stamps.  It's like being on a diet and then binging I can't stop registering stuff!  

 

 

No truth to this.

[njpilot 670]

   

 

No truth to this.

I've read the same thing. Not knocking your gun trust lawyer Rob, but many people on NFA forums have said you can change calibers with no problems. I don't know your guy, but not all gun trust lawyers know all the ins and outs.

 

I just received my E Form 1 approval a few weeks ago, just past  4 months.