New Jersey Firearm Purchase and Permitting Study Commission: Report is out

[siderman 1,137]

So, no help from the state to fix 2A here. Wont be any help from the federal level. National NRA trashed us. Local NRA sees rainbows and unicorns. Lawsuits with no legs.Court decisions being ignored. democrats running both houses and soon the gov seat. I'm sensing a trend here, cant quite put my finger on it.....

[njpilot 671]

So, no help from the state to fix 2A here. Wont be any help from the federal level. National NRA trashed us. Local NRA sees rainbows and unicorns. Lawsuits with no legs.Court decisions being ignored. democrats running both houses and soon the gov seat. I'm sensing a trend here, cant quite put my finger on it.....

Get the F*CK out!!!

[PD2K 115]

So, no help from the state to fix 2A here. Wont be any help from the federal level. National NRA trashed us. Local NRA sees rainbows and unicorns. Lawsuits with no legs.Court decisions being ignored. democrats running both houses and soon the gov seat. I'm sensing a trend here, cant quite put my finger on it.....

 

Oh man you just sunk my battleship...

[diamondd817 826]

Another update to that article:

 

ANJRPC -

 

Wow. Seems to me that ANJRPC is the FUD of the NJ RKBA groups.

I'm convinced they don't want any real change. They make their money off the fear and emotion of NJ residents.

[PK90 3,570]

 

 

Get the F*CK out!!!

+1000000000

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

 

 

[Luso 6]

You guys expect a governor to wave a magic wand, dissolve the legislature, have the judiciary tarred and feathered, and declare NJ a constitutional carry state. His willingness or unwillingness to exercise magical powers notwithstanding, you're blaming Christie for not having them.

 

Would you not say that:

 

* allowing detours to/from the range

* enforcing the 30-day max for all paperwork, or perhaps streamlining the process to allow same-day processing (I'm dreaming)

* expanding concealed carry to some meaningful degree

 

are not improvements? Are not something to build on? If so we do not speak the same language.

 

In response to your three bullets.

 

1. Who cares when you can't step out of your car with that gun. Meaningless and you'll still be arrested by overzealous cops if they find out you have a weapon

2. I read the report front to back. What meaningful punishment did they decide would be cast upon law enforcement who fail to obey the time frames or who break the law with additional requirements? Absolutely none. They are just saying they will crack down. 30 days is already the law and they don't obey it. Why would this make them change? As long as government is an unnecessary intermediary to you exercising your rights, they will abuse that power. The police have no accountability to you, and Christie will not be governor one day. This in essence is meaningless lip service

3. Your definition of "meaningful" must be quite different than mine. I would say this is justifiable need continued but rephrased. I still have no ability to achieve a carry permit, and would have no recourse to unless I suddenly and publicly get nearly killed by mafiosos multiple times (and then I still might not get it)

 

Fuck the ANJRPC. They have been kissing Christie's ass and I'm tired of their pandering. They could care less about winning, and instead are cozying up to authority. This report blatantly states that justifiable need is now harder to overturn in the courts because of the changes.

 

Only a douchebag would celebrate the results of this report

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot 358]

This is a win-win!

 

Chris Christie, who is rising in New Hampshire polls, gets to show he did something for us poor gun owners in NJ.  The last thing Christie wants is someone bringing up Carol Bowne at a New Hampshire forum.  The last last thing he wants is some riff-raff protesters showing up at one of his NH rallies or at his Mendham home with signs of Carol Bowne.  He effectively inoculated himself against that by carving out a justifiable need exception for future Carol Bowne's.

 

ANJRPC (i.e. Scott Bach) gets to declare victory!  Mr. Bach, who I'm guessing makes some decent coin like around $200K per year, gets an attaboy.

 

So, win-win....

[Newtonian 453]

In response to your three bullets.

 

1. Who cares when you can't step out of your car with that gun. Meaningless and you'll still be arrested by overzealous cops if they find out you have a weapon

2. I read the report front to back. What meaningful punishment did they decide would be cast upon law enforcement who fail to obey the time frames or who break the law with additional requirements? Absolutely none. They are just saying they will crack down. 30 days is already the law and they don't obey it. Why would this make them change? As long as government is an unnecessary intermediary to you exercising your rights, they will abuse that power. The police have no accountability to you, and Christie will not be governor one day. This in essence is meaningless lip service

3. Your definition of "meaningful" must be quite different than mine. I would say this is justifiable need continued but rephrased. I still have no ability to achieve a carry permit, and would have no recourse to unless I suddenly and publicly get nearly killed by mafiosos multiple times (and then I still might not get it)

 

Fuck the ANJRPC. They have been kissing Christie's ass and I'm tired of their pandering. They could care less about winning, and instead are cozying up to authority. This report blatantly states that justifiable need is now harder to overturn in the courts because of the changes.

 

Only a douchebag would celebrate the results of this report

You're all over the place with this post. The question is whether these recommendations, if implemented, and the degree to which they are, represent an improvement over what we currently endure. Any reasonable reading suggests they are.

 

Am I ok with them? NO!

Are they constitutional, lawful? Do they satisfy the plain language meaning of the 2nd Amendment? NO!

Do they represent a point where we should become complacent? NO!

Should we be satisfied and kiss the governor's ass? NO!!!

Should we put Christie on a pedestal and hail him as the James Madison of the current age? A THOUSAND TIMES NO!!!!!

 

But are they progress? Yes indeed they are. They should be viewed as a starting point for upcoming battles of which there will be many.

 

But you don't get it. What do you plan to do over the next year or so that will advance our cause? Wanna collect some signatures, email your assemblyman, show up at a rally with 23 other people? What is your plan?

 

What is your plan other than capitulation? Please lay out your strategy. I'll be the first to admit you're right.

 

Who is your best chance for meaningful reform of NJ gun laws? You think that yelling and name calling will get you what you want. It never ever ever does, pal. 

 

I really and truly feel sorry for everyone who feels this way, not only for the 2nd Amendment battle we will face in spades beginning January, 2018 but in all the challenges facing this decrepit corrupt state. 

[Newtonian 453]

Everyone here is crying about Christie, but has anyone though what will happen when a Dem gets elected in a few years. 10 round limit is certain, as is an assault weapons ban of any and all so called "assault rifles" with no grandfathering on either one. And that's just a start.

Very few people in these forums are capable of contemplating the point you raise except as an inevitable abstraction (if such a thing exists).

 

They see the number "2018" and bury their heads into their comfy pillows. They don't want to deal with the present and near-immediate future, only with fantasy, with one-off solutions or efforts with such a low probability of success that the A.C. casinos have established a line on them. Trump's current position on 7-round magazines is 7:1, and he'll make a billion on that bet sure as shit.

 

In the three weeks I've been ranting like a madman about this subject I've asked half a dozen times for alternatives. Where do we go, who do we turn to, what strategies should we take?

 

Instead of answers or legit responses I get the same old fuckin b.s. over and over.

 

As the Blackadder said before going over the top, "Who would notice another madman around here? Good luck everyone."

[ChrisJM981 924]

I'm applying for a carry permit, and no I'm not scared of having to check the denied box. Let's see what happens.

[1LtCAP 4,262]

Everyone here is crying about Christie, but has anyone though what will happen when a Dem gets elected in a few years. 10 round limit is certain, as is an assault weapons ban of any and all so called "assault rifles" with no grandfathering on either one. And that's just a start.

i've said this many times. we'll more than likely get a very pissed off(at gun owners) person that they tried to recall.............

[springfieldxds 0]

the best we can hope for is they change justifiable need to be more like Marylands G&S, atleast then we have a much more likely chance of getting a permit, if that happens thats the best well ever get and hopefully by 2018 the government will be established to it and the next governor wont change it, well just have to pray there isnt another mass shooting because if another one happens with a D governor were going right back to the good old justifiable need we know and love 

 

If Christie can change justifiable need to be more relaxed our next governor (Sweeny) can change it right back to the way it was, this is a temporary solution at best

 

and dont say that if he does change it back there will be a revolution, thats a load of donkey sh** and we all know it

[NJGF 375]

The NRA-ILA has responded to the commission recommendations:

 

We urge the Governor to actively and aggressively adopt these much needed reforms.  While these recommendations fall short of fixing all that is wrong with New Jersey’s flawed gun laws, we are encouraged that this represents at least a small step in the right direction and offers a degree of relief to beleaguered New Jersey gun owners at this time.

[JohnnyB 4,325]

The NRA chimes in on NJ commission. At least they are more realistic about it.

 

"On Monday, a panel created by Governor Chris Christie ® to review New Jersey’s draconian gun laws released its findings and made recommendations.  The New Jersey Firearm Purchase and Permitting Study Commission called for changes to the state’s onerous gun laws.  In particular, the panel suggested expansion of the “reasonable deviation” standard whereby those transporting a pistol may go directly to and from a gun range without making any “unnecessary” stops.  This vague and inappropriately applied standard has resulted in the incarceration of several honest, law-abiding New Jersey residents, who later had to plead for clemency.

The panel also urged the Attorney General to address the delays that citizens commonly encounter when applying for a Firearms Identification Card (FID Card), which is essentially a possession permit.  It’s common practice for local issuing authorities to arbitrarily take as much time as they choose to issue the document, despite a 30 day limit in state statute.  The Commission also flagged the unauthorized conditions and requirements for issuing an FID Card, such as employer or spousal consent, as inappropriate.

Finally, the panel advocated for broadening the state’s “justifiable need” requirement for obtaining a concealed carry permit.  Under the current interpretation, it’s virtually impossible for the average citizen to obtain a carry permit.  While the suggestions offered by the group are incrementally beneficial, they certainly do not go far enough to make true concealed carry a reality in the Garden State.

We urge the Governor to actively and aggressively adopt these much needed reforms.  While these recommendations fall short of fixing all that is wrong with New Jersey’s flawed gun laws, we are encouraged that this represents at least a small step in the right direction and offers a degree of relief to beleaguered New Jersey gun owners at this time."

[CMJeepster 2,777]

The NRA chimes in on NJ commission. At least they are more realistic about it.

We got a Band-Aid when we needed a tourniquet.

[JohnnyB 4,325]

We got a Band-Aid when we needed a tourniquet.

Agreed.  I am just happy that are calling a spade a spade, unlike the ANJRPC

 

"do not go far enough to make true concealed carry a reality in the Garden State.."

 

"these recommendations fall short of fixing all that is wrong with New Jersey’s flawed gun laws"

 

"at least a small step in the right direction"

[W2MC 1,699]

"Bryan Miller, executive director of the advocacy group Heeding God's Call to End Gun Violence, had a different take. The panel's recommendations "run directly contrary to the wishes of the overwhelming majority of New Jerseyans, but since he virtually moved out of the state months ago, Christie cares not what Garden Staters want," Miller said.

 

Bryan Miller, on the other hand, moved out of NJ years ago

[Luso 6]

You're all over the place with this post. The question is whether these recommendations, if implemented, and the degree to which they are, represent an improvement over what we currently endure. Any reasonable reading suggests they are.

 

Am I ok with them? NO!

Are they constitutional, lawful? Do they satisfy the plain language meaning of the 2nd Amendment? NO!

Do they represent a point where we should become complacent? NO!

Should we be satisfied and kiss the governor's ass? NO!!!

Should we put Christie on a pedestal and hail him as the James Madison of the current age? A THOUSAND TIMES NO!!!!!

 

But are they progress? Yes indeed they are. They should be viewed as a starting point for upcoming battles of which there will be many.

 

But you don't get it. What do you plan to do over the next year or so that will advance our cause? Wanna collect some signatures, email your assemblyman, show up at a rally with 23 other people? What is your plan?

 

What is your plan other than capitulation? Please lay out your strategy. I'll be the first to admit you're right.

 

Who is your best chance for meaningful reform of NJ gun laws? You think that yelling and name calling will get you what you want. It never ever ever does, pal.

 

I really and truly feel sorry for everyone who feels this way, not only for the 2nd Amendment battle we will face in spades beginning January, 2018 but in all the challenges facing this decrepit corrupt state.

I'm not all over the place. I'm refuting the degree of which you think this will bring about substantive change on those three points

 

If the police didn't care about he law before, why would they suddenly now?

can you define how we "meaningfully" have an easier ability to achieve a carry permit as normal citizens?

 

As for my ideas, I've said them for years. For one, I am the reason those videos are out there and have been scripting them behind the scenes. I have been calling for all 2A supporters to 1. Apply for their carry permits in mass numbers to quickly skew the rejection statistics in the opposite direction, while 2. Video recording every single damn interaction with law enforcement on the issue.

 

This is getting news coverage giving visibility to our plight in a way talking doesn't. Video is visceral, it cuts through lies, and can't be ignored. If you had 200 of these videos the Nj2AS is putting out across the state, Christie would be so burned on the campaign trail he would have done anything possible to get rid of justifiable need

 

The police have absolutely no duty to protect you, and no liability for failing to do their permitting job. It's our job to attack them and expose them for it, and that makes people turn into pussies because they fear police or being viewed as anti police

 

The fact of the matter is, any police officer who who gets bent out of shape from all of this, should agree to stand next to NJ2AS and promise that they will grant every single carry permit going brought their police department, so that the blame can fall squarely on the judges (and we can attack them next. That's easy because they all have carry permits too)

 

Until police departments are willing to do that, they are part of the problem and are to be attacked for their hypocrisy. They view their lives as being worth more than ours and are enemies of the second amendment they swore to protect

 

Talk is bullshit. Get cameras in everyone's face. Watch the permit return times suddenly decrease. Watch the carry conversation become more uncomfortable when black people are denied carry permits in Newark, women are denied permits in Paterson- now you have a racial and gender issue on your hands

 

Our enemies don't speak logic. They speak emotion and protected-class drivel. So let's speak their language and show them minorities getting hurt by our gun laws on tape

 

Film everyone , all the time, or it didn't happen

[njpilot 671]

 1. Apply for their carry permits in mass numbers to quickly skew the rejection statistics in the opposite direction, 

 

If rejected a the local level as opposed to by a superior court judge, will it even be counted?

[Luso 6]

If rejected a the local level as opposed to by a superior court judge, will it even be counted?

Sure gets counted when you have a video tape of your interactions with your PD telling you you're rejected because your life has no value to them. Imagine a pregnant minority getting told that on tape in an inner city.

 

The statists heads will explode. They won't know whether to cheer or be outraged. You hit them with their own book of rules

[CMJeepster 2,777]

If rejected a the local level as opposed to by a superior court judge, will it even be counted?

If some organization is asking for stats and rejected people are willing to come forward...

[Rob0115 1,105]

Get the F*CK out!!!

That made me chuckle. I don't know anyone left that has regrets. The way I see it there's two groups of New Jerseyans. Those that have left and those that want to.

[Guest]

the best we can hope for is they change justifiable need to be more like Marylands G&S, atleast then we have a much more likely chance of getting a permit, if that happens thats the best well ever get and hopefully by 2018 the government will be established to it and the next governor wont change it, well just have to pray there isnt another mass shooting because if another one happens with a D governor were going right back to the good old justifiable need we know and love 

 

If Christie can change justifiable need to be more relaxed our next governor (Sweeny) can change it right back to the way it was, this is a temporary solution at best

 

and dont say that if he does change it back there will be a revolution, thats a load of donkey sh** and we all know it

 

Follow MD laws, are you kidding? We should be fighting to get the same laws as Arizona, period

We got a Band-Aid when we needed a tourniquet.

Wrong, they are cutting off the arm to stop bleeding from the fingers and most NJ residents are happy the bleeding finger is no longer bleeding...

 

Everyone here is crying about Christie, but has anyone though what will happen when a Dem gets elected in a few years. 10 round limit is certain, as is an assault weapons ban of any and all so called "assault rifles" with no grandfathering on either one. And that's just a start.

Its not just the Dems, the republicans are just as bad in this state

[Zeke 5,504]

Cough, um

You do realize this is a commission report , findings and recommendations.

Has no legal bearing on what the government will do?

[Zeke 5,504]

Hunter,

You correct, our end goal should be laws similar to Arizona.

 

Rome wasn't built in a day

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned in this long thread, but if the AG's of Pennsylvania and Virginia can summarily and unilaterally decide not to honor out-of-state concealed carry permits, then it seems that our AG or governor should likewise be able to decree that self-defense represents "justifiable need."  

[JohnnyB 4,325]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned in this long thread, but if the AG's of Pennsylvania and Virginia can summarily and unilaterally decide not to honor out-of-state concealed carry permits, then it seems that our AG or governor should likewise be able to decree that self-defense represents "justifiable need."  

Great point! AG,s in other states seem quite powerful in what they can do. They most likely exercise this power after an order or suggestion from the Governor of their state. ( At least in Virginia).

 

So chances are that our AG does indeed have the authority to make much broader changes than the commission suggested, that is, if Christie approves.

[Guest]

Hunter,

You correct, our end goal should be laws similar to Arizona.

 

Rome wasn't built in a day

You're right, it wasn't built in a day. But it was destroyed in a few days...

[M1152 713]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned in this long thread, but if the AG's of Pennsylvania and Virginia can summarily and unilaterally decide not to honor out-of-state concealed carry permits, then it seems that our AG or governor should likewise be able to decree that self-defense represents "justifiable need."  

 

Great point! AG,s in other states seem quite powerful in what they can do. They most likely exercise this power after an order or suggestion from the Governor of their state. ( At least in Virginia).

 

So chances are that our AG does indeed have the authority to make much broader changes than the commission suggested, that is, if Christie approves.

 

 

 

It’s good that you guys mention this. Just to add to what you said everyone that’s been on this forum for any length of time probably knows about the Pennsylvania AG’s actions but the Virginia action is recent if I’m not mistaken.  I just heard about this on the news yesterday so I’m thinking it’s very recent and needless to say once again seems to be politically driven since the VA AG is a Dem.I don’t know what impact the VA law will have but I’ll look into it because I still have a VA non-resident carry permit. But more to your point, CC should advise the NJ AG to allow ccw for law abiding citizens that wish to obtain the permit now that the "commission report" gives him some political cover…       

[mipafox 438]

 

It’s good that you guys mention this. Just to add to what you said everyone that’s been on this forum for any length of time probably knows about the Pennsylvania AG’s actions but the Virginia action is recent if I’m not mistaken.  I just heard about this on the news yesterday so I’m thinking it’s very recent and needless to say once again seems to be politically driven since the VA AG is a Dem.I don’t know what impact the VA law will have but I’ll look into it because I still have a VA non-resident carry permit. But more to your point, CC should advise the NJ AG to allow ccw for law abiding citizens that wish to obtain the permit now that the "commission report" gives him some political cover…

NJ AG has no say in the matter. The permits are issued by judges that (presumably) rely on the law and the regulation written by NJSP. Christie needs to instruct NJSP to change the language of the regulation.