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New Jersey Firearm Purchase and Permitting Study Commission: Report is out

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Great point! AG,s in other states seem quite powerful in what they can do. They most likely exercise this power after an order or suggestion from the Governor of their state. ( At least in Virginia).

 

So chances are that our AG does indeed have the authority to make much broader changes than the commission suggested, that is, if Christie approves.

 

 

actually our AG has no authority to do so.  why you would think otherwise confuses me

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Forgive me if this has already been mentioned in this long thread, but if the AG's of Pennsylvania and Virginia can summarily and unilaterally decide not to honor out-of-state concealed carry permits, then it seems that our AG or governor should likewise be able to decree that self-defense represents "justifiable need."

 

PA AG did no such thing.

 

PA AG changed several agreements so that non-resident permits from other states would not be recognized, similar to Florida and several other states that refuse to recognize ALL non-resident permits from other states, but not going as far as Florida, etc.

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There is law and then there is admin code. I believe NJ law as written requires NJ issued carry permit and only legislature can change that. AG cannot just declare other state permits as valid.

 

 

On the other hand, certain definition / elaboration of certain aspects such as Justifiable Need is not written in the law and NJSP made up very narrow definition to please the lords at the time.

 

AG office, as head of Dept of law and public safety has full legal authority to enhance the admin code as they see fit, but has to stay within the law.

 

AG office can also instruct all PDs to issue permits within 30 days as law stipulates and take action to resolve any genuine delays in the process. No special commission is required to state the obvious.

 

 

 

 

I could be totally wrong.

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There is law and then there is admin code. I believe NJ law as written requires NJ issued carry permit and only legislature can change that. AG cannot just declare other state permits as valid.

 

 

On the other hand, certain definition / elaboration of certain aspects such as Justifiable Need is not written in the law and NJSP made up very narrow definition to please the lords at the time.

 

AG office, as head of Dept of law and public safety has full legal authority to enhance the admin code as they see fit, but has to stay within the law.

 

I could be totally wrong.

That is the concensus here at NJGF. This line of thought/discussion seems to come up at least every 3 months, and this commissioned report is highlighting that fact to the rest of the world with out pointing out the fact that Christy can have the AG add the words "Self defense " and really help out the residents of NJ who want to take responsibility for their own safety

 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

 

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Forgive me if this has already been mentioned in this long thread, but if the AG's of Pennsylvania and Virginia can summarily and unilaterally decide not to honor out-of-state concealed carry permits, then it seems that our AG or governor should likewise be able to decree that self-defense represents "justifiable need."  

 

I would tend to say "NO" as our AG is appointed by Christie. Whereas the AG's of PA and VA are ELECTED by the people.

 

I am confused on how their AG's can circumvent their legislature's when changing a law. AG's are to enforce the laws; not create or edit them.

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1) The Statute, passed by the legislature, says you need "justifiable need" to get a carry permit.

2) In 1971, the courts defined justifiable need as requiring threats, danger, etc.

3) In 1991 (or was it 93?), the NJSP codified the standard the courts were already using by adding the definition of justifiable need to the administrative code.

 

The AG oversees the entire department of law and public safety including the NJSP.

 

NJ Statute gives the governor the authority to edit the administrative code by executive order.  If he were to re-write the administrative code to include "self defense" as justifiable need, the code would be in conflict with the standard the courts have been using since 1971.  However, the courts rely on the statutes first (where justifiable need is required but not defined) and when the statue isn't clear, the courts then turn to the administrative code.    

 

As I understand it, If the administrative code changed, the courts would have to follow it before following their own way of doing business or they would be violating their own rules.  Of course, in NJ, courts do whatever they want.

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suppose christy did/could eo it. he changes justifiable need to include self defense, and instructs judges to issue for that. now we all run out and get our ccw's. in 2017 sweeny is given governorship. we all know his attitudes. he rescinds christy's eo. what now?

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Christie will drop out after the second primary/caucus no matter what he decrees regarding firearms. I predicted this immediately after he declared his candidacy.

 

The gun issue alone would eventually sink him over the long Republican primary season, but his abrasive Northeast RINO Jersey attitude, and his lack of momentum, will accelerate his fall to earth.

 

He knows he has no chance.

 

My theory is he's using this insincere and sudden love of firearms and 2nd Amendment rights to broaden his credibility among Republicans, libertarians, conservatives, tea party, whatever, with an eye on the future. 

 

The Clintons cashing in is not a necessarily new model for life beyond politics, but their behavior over the last 15 years is a master class on the subject. Christie is watching.

 

Books, lectures, corporate board memberships, maybe a $300,000/yr sinecure at some university or law firm. Christie stands to make millions per year for working 10 hours per week (basically at nothing) if he can somehow appeal to some critical percentage of the republican base, and convince enough people that he's not a democrat in republican clothing.

 

This past week he proposed bomb, bomb, bomb and provoking Russia. Which led Rand Paul to comment, "If you'd like to see WW III then there's your candidate." He's as sincere about starting WW III as he is about reforming NJ gun laws.

 

But who cares? He can't start WW III but he can achieve some measure of gun law reform regardless of what's in his heart of hearts. 

 

Let's take advantage of this several-month opportunity, until NH or whatever the second primary event is this cycle. With some luck the honeymoon may stretch out for the next two years.

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Don't see it happening.....he's a gas bag.

What are the alternatives? Come up with a better bet than CC and I'll send you a cigar.

 

Or as I like to say, "List them, 1, 2, 3."

 

That's about the 4th time I've posted that and nobody has come up with even one alternative or suggestion. 

 

You won't either. You'll either come back with an insult or slink away to Matamoras. 

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What are the alternatives? Come up with a better bet than CC and I'll send you a cigar.

 

Or as I like to say, "List them, 1, 2, 3."

 

That's about the 4th time I've posted that and nobody has come up with even one alternative or suggestion.

 

You won't either. You'll either come back with an insult or slink away to Matamoras.

That's because you are too thick to realize that everyone agrees there isn't anything better than Christie on the NJ horizon. Where has anyone disagrees with you on that point? Yet you seem to think giving him a reach around for the next few months will do anything other than make us look like schmucks.

 

How about list 3 good things that will come out of elevating Christie on a national level?

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1, S.C.O.T.U.S.

2, U.S. Congress

3, Federal District Court

4, P.O.T.U.S. (If a Republican is elected)

 

1. Won't hear a right to carry case - so lower court rulings preventing right to carry stand.

2.  one party is pretending to be conservative because it's an election year. Once the election is over, they won't help us.

3.  3rd circuit already ruled that NJ's laws are just fine the way they are.

4.  Can't act unilaterally. 

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That's because you are too thick to realize that everyone agrees there isn't anything better than Christie on the NJ horizon. Where has anyone disagrees with you on that point? Yet you seem to think giving him a reach around for the next few months will do anything other than make us look like schmucks.

 

How about list 3 good things that will come out of elevating Christie on a national level?

I'm going to continue to be nice to you for exactly one more post. This one. I'm hoping we can eventually be friends because we're after the same goals.

 

First of all don't call me "thick." I'm not thick. I think things through, sometimes too much, sometimes incorrectly. But I'm always open minded about things. 

 

I'm relatively new to the whole gun thing but I'm not fuakckken thick. So don't call me thick. 

 

I should not have to type something 12 times in one thread but:

 

1) I'm not "elevating" anybody. I know the score. I know Christie. I know the NJ Republican party since a birthday party in Stillwater in 1991 where I met all the big wigs at the time. If you want my private thoughts on our governor just message me. I'll be happy to share but for now I prefer to get what I can get from him.

2) You guys do not read posts, you react based on your preconceptions. 100% you ignore the fact that:

3) You sometimes have to deal with people you don't like. It's a fact of life. 

4) You have to EXPLOIT those people, sometimes, to get what you want. Christie = guns = fake republican nomination = his future. Fake, phoney, fraudulent, cynical but...

5) You have to calculate what you want and balance it against what you can possibly get and finally

6) You have to look into the future. They say the primary thing that separates humans from monkeys is that ability to envision the future. Are you a human or a freaking chimp? 

 

Do any of you guys who have been flaming me, calling me names, accusing me of consorting with the enemy, have any freaking concept of the future? Or for that matter of the present? Do you realize how bad things are and how much worse they will get?

 

Do you realize that 5,000 additional CC permit holders arrest-free for three five whatever years will say more than any stupid petition you sign? Any number of of emails you send to Trenton? Than the recall of any specific politician?

 

We are all bros. Let's start thinking, let's start being critical and stop jumping on bandwagons. Let's talk like individuals with a common cause. Let's think things through.

 

And I mean this sincerely: Let's stop screwing each other and together "mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.”

 

Big Daddy Ange loves you. Ooooh-raaah.

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Christie will drop out after the second primary/caucus no matter what he decrees regarding firearms. I predicted this immediately after he declared his candidacy.

 

The gun issue alone would eventually sink him over the long Republican primary season, but his abrasive Northeast RINO Jersey attitude, and his lack of momentum, will accelerate his fall to earth.

 

He knows he has no chance.

 

My theory is he's using this insincere and sudden love of firearms and 2nd Amendment rights to broaden his credibility among Republicans, libertarians, conservatives, tea party, whatever, with an eye on the future. 

 

The Clintons cashing in is not a necessarily new model for life beyond politics, but their behavior over the last 15 years is a master class on the subject. Christie is watching.

 

Books, lectures, corporate board memberships, maybe a $300,000/yr sinecure at some university or law firm. Christie stands to make millions per year for working 10 hours per week (basically at nothing) if he can somehow appeal to some critical percentage of the republican base, and convince enough people that he's not a democrat in republican clothing.

 

This past week he proposed bomb, bomb, bomb and provoking Russia. Which led Rand Paul to comment, "If you'd like to see WW III then there's your candidate." He's as sincere about starting WW III as he is about reforming NJ gun laws.

 

But who cares? He can't start WW III but he can achieve some measure of gun law reform regardless of what's in his heart of hearts. 

 

Let's take advantage of this several-month opportunity, until NH or whatever the second primary event is this cycle. With some luck the honeymoon may stretch out for the next two years.

I have been saying (along with several nationally-known pundits) that Chris Christie is still in the race because he is *really* campaigning for Atty General...a post he is actually well-qualified for, and, IMHO, would be very good both for him and the country.

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He's an opportunistic gas bag .....IMO.

 

I've seen continuous posts in other forums....."New Jersey, The Most Hated State".

 

Christie the ex-fed. prosecutor as he keeps repeating is in perfect step here with the NJSP who makes all the rules and would spread that through out the country if he could.....no thanks.

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I have been saying (along with several nationally-known pundits) that Chris Christie is still in the race because he is *really* campaigning for Atty General...a post he is actually well-qualified for, and, IMHO, would be very good both for him and the country.

You really think so? Look at the attorney generals he appointed in NJ. The first one, Paula Dow was probably as liberal, anti-gun, anti-American as Eric Holder. You think Christie would be a good AG?

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I believe he was campaigning for Romney and endorsed him early in 2012, just for the reason he wanted a cabinet post in a Romney administration. He would likely be a do nothing US AG.

You really think so? Look at the attorney generals he appointed in NJ. The first one, Paula Dow was probably as liberal, anti-gun, anti-American as Eric Holder. You think Christie would be a good AG?

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I have been saying (along with several nationally-known pundits) that Chris Christie is still in the race because he is *really* campaigning for Atty General...a post he is actually well-qualified for, and, IMHO, would be very good both for him and the country.

I'd be shocked if he took that job. It's a dead end politically and the $$$ is peanuts for a lawyer of any significant stature. 

 

How many previous AGs have you heard of before they were nominated? Me, none except for Robert Kennedy, and I was six years old at the time.

 

He'll be 55 when he leaves office. 
 

Christie knows he has zero chance of being nominated. His real goal is political rock stardom. He's planning to spend the rest of his life making oodles of money for doing nothing. Books, speeches, consulting, corporate boards, no-show law partnerships. The good life.

 

Besides Hillary will never nominate him.

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know why killary's gonna win? besides stupid people voting for her? because the tards can't go FIVE fucking minutes during a debate without fucking talking about her. it's almost like these fucking debates are nothing more than a commercial for her. then there's the conversations amongst people. we keep talking about her, and mentioning her name too often. people will vote on name recognition. and that's how she'll land the job.

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suppose christy did/could eo it. he changes justifiable need to include self defense, and instructs judges to issue for that. now we all run out and get our ccw's. in 2017 sweeny is given governorship. we all know his attitudes. he rescinds christy's eo. what now?

I think it's time we stop inadvertently giving Christie cover by having a sense of uncertainty about whether or not he "could" change the definition of justifiable need. As JackDaWack pointed out in another thread,

 

CHRISTIE IS CHANGING THE DEFINITION OF JUSTIFIABLE NEED RIGHT NOW AS WE SPEAK.

 

His committee proposed new language for Christie to tell NJSP to put in the code redefining justifiable need. There isn't a rock big enough left for him to hide behind. He could put in "self defense" tomorrow. We really need to get to this guy and make sure everybody out there (like New Hampshire) he has been dodging over this are put on notice about what is happening and how they don't have to take his excuses anymore.

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I think it's time we stop inadvertently giving Christie cover by having a sense of uncertainty about whether or not he "could" change the definition of justifiable need. As JackDaWack pointed out in another thread,

 

CHRISTIE IS CHANGING THE DEFINITION OF JUSTIFIABLE NEED RIGHT NOW AS WE SPEAK.

 

His committee proposed new language for Christie to tell NJSP to put in the code redefining justifiable need. There isn't a rock big enough left for him to hide behind. He could put in "self defense" tomorrow. We really need to get to this guy and make sure everybody out there (like New Hampshire) he has been dodging over this are put on notice about what is happening and how they don't have to take his excuses anymore.

ok. no cover. we petition him to change it and he does. now the question still stands.

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ok. no cover. we petition him to change it and he does. now the question still stands.

You don't petition Christie. You petition RNC, you petition his presidential primary adversaries, you petition NH gun organizations, you petition the media in key primary states, you petition strong-2A AGs in key election states, and you petition the NJ media (including 101.5) because every NJ media organization would love to expose Christie for making invalid excuses.

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I think it's time we stop inadvertently giving Christie cover by having a sense of uncertainty about whether or not he "could" change the definition of justifiable need. As JackDaWack pointed out in another thread,

 

CHRISTIE IS CHANGING THE DEFINITION OF JUSTIFIABLE NEED RIGHT NOW AS WE SPEAK.

 

His committee proposed new language for Christie to tell NJSP to put in the code redefining justifiable need. There isn't a rock big enough left for him to hide behind. He could put in "self defense" tomorrow. We really need to get to this guy and make sure everybody out there (like New Hampshire) he has been dodging over this are put on notice about what is happening and how they don't have to take his excuses anymore.

 

What you're saying is we need to educate NH pro-2A organizations on the subtleties of NJ gun laws. Correct? Not a bad idea, but the problem is that they have pretty much written him off as have many of the empty barrels in these forums. 

 

Forget the anti-gun NH press. The Manchester Union Leader is not the same paper it was when I lived in the Granite State in the late 1970s. Letter to the editor from a few years earlier was titled, "Kissinger the Kike." Look it up. I'm not endorsing language like that but it gives you some idea of the popular mindset.

 

What if the NH organizations had, instead of playing the absolutist card, come out with a neutral semi-endorsement that indicated that there was a lot more to be done in Christie's home state before they could endorse him. Even if they had no intention of endorsing him. And outlining some of those changes.

 

Meanwhile I think if ever an email campaign was worth undertaking it would profit us to send CC a message indicating gratitude but advising him to consider real reform that goes beyond urination and fast food.

 

One million gun owners in the state, oh yeah.

 

As I've written many times NJ is different. We can't march through town burning our jockstraps and get the same results they get in other places.

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