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MattP725

Recourse against local PD for denial?

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Hello all,

I registered with the site JUST in light of my recent FID card ADDRESS CHANGE denial.

I live in an undisclosed town in Monmouth County... I was recently contacted after submitting all required docs on an address change (including what I believe is a BS requirement of additional background checks and references just because I decided to move to a different town) to conduct an "in person 10 question form" which was a way of sidestepping the investigators request to come into my home. Well I declined allowing them into my home and told the inspector I would be happy to come to the local PD and provide any additional documentation/proof of address they needed. I was then told the chief suggested I would be declined because they would have no way to "physically verify" that I lived where I said I did. I called someone in the state police with the fire arms division who was very helpful. He even called my municipality and tried to put them in line. He was under the impression that the approval would be granted after his convo. Well low and behold today I get a letter from the PD saying I am declined due to "your refusal to permit Inv. XXXX to conduct an in home interview with you and physically verify your residency in XXX".  

My record is clean... I have visited a psychiatrist before but did disclose that on the state form. It was for IBS symptoms from stress that I sought medication for. My doctor signed off on my initial permit and I haven't had any visits since my initial permit in 2012.  

I'm assuming that while I am annoyed by the fact I actually have to appeal this, it should be a pretty easy win in my favor (I had to chose which constitutional right I was forced to give up, the 2nd or 4th ammedment) it is obviously going to cost me to hire an attorney.

Do I have any recourse for such a blatant abuse of power and deviation from state policies in regards to the firearms permit process? I'm really hoping that I can get them to cover my attorney costs since it seems to be such a clear violation of my rights.

I am reasonably sure that I cannot sue a police department in most situations but wanted to hear what others thought.

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Just in the event there is a tiny chance the state detective can call them again and get them to waiver, I don't want to risk any butthurt police chiefs... once I know it is going to appeal or has been reversed, I'd have no problem putting it out there... frankly nothing to gain at this point

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Considering the FID has to match your DL, whats the problem showing them you actually live where you claim to live???????????

 

Or my lease agreement or my utility bills or a statement in blood from my landlord... all great questions... they took a copy of my license when I submitted the app.  Hence what makes this asinine.  Apparently it is easier to forge a NJ DL than it is to just temporarily occupy a home you don't live in.

 

I suggested the same... they told me it HAD to be an actual witness verification of my address.  

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Another call to the NJSP saying the town is ignoring their intervention cant hurt. Its still free vs the next step. Just saying its worth a chance before your checkbook gets molested. Also maybe go up the ladder such as council/mayor and see if they are willing to incur costs of a lawsuit. Good luck.

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So you have a letter from the PD stating you were denied because you would not let them come to your house to interview you? If so, that is a slam dunk case for you. NJ courts already ruled local PD can't add their own requirements, such as the one you a alleging.

 

ANJRPC for Permitting Abuses = http://www.anjrpc.org/?page=A_Strikeforce

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Yep I made another call to the detective this morning. I'm guessing hell tell me it's now out of his hands.

 

And yeah I have a black and white letter (very surprising I figured they'd at least word it carefully). Only issue is that I still am going to end up getting counsel. I really don't know what to expect out of the appeals process and I'm concerned they could try and bring up other qualifications that I'm not prepared to argue. Only someone that's been through it before would know what will/could happen.

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If your new twp has denied a change of address then you are at serious and imminent risk of having the cops visit you any day now to confiscate your firearms.  You technically do not possess a valid FID atm.  You need to act quickly.

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If your new twp has denied a change of address then you are at serious and imminent risk of having the cops visit you any day now to confiscate your firearms.  You technically do not posses a valid FID atm.

 

Not true. A FPID is for purchases, not possession. There are more owners of firearms without FPIDs in NJ than there are ones that have them.

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Yep I made another call to the detective this morning. I'm guessing hell tell me it's now out of his hands.

 

And yeah I have a black and white letter (very surprising I figured they'd at least word it carefully). Only issue is that I still am going to end up getting counsel. I really don't know what to expect out of the appeals process and I'm concerned they could try and bring up other qualifications that I'm not prepared to argue. Only someone that's been through it before would know what will/could happen.

1. Naming the town here isn't big deal. With denial any perceived relationship (or threat of alleniating) is already on the rocks.

 

2. If there are other qualifications they may bring up, lawyer is your best course of action unfortunately.

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Not true. A FPID is for purchases, not possession. There are more owners of firearms without FPIDs in NJ than there are ones that have them.

Correct hence why it's a "purchasers" ID card. Doesn't help that Dicks requires it though to purchase ammo as do most online vendors. Guns without ammo are essentially valueless.

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Correct hence why it's a "purchasers" ID card. Doesn't help that Dicks requires it though to purchase ammo as do most online vendors. Guns without ammo are essentially valueless.

Dick's is just following the law. FPID is required to purchase handgun caliber ammo.

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It may be argued that, if one is not able to obtain an initial FID or have a duplicate FID issued for any administrative reason, and if they are known to be in possession of firearms, then the municipality may decide that the person is ineligible to possess firearms.

 

That's all I'm say'n.

 

For example:  I know I can legally inherit, possess and transport my dead granpappys shotty within the very narrow confines of Newjerseystan's laws without an FID.  But... If I have said shotty in my possession and the coppers are aware that I possess said shotty, and then for any reason (right or wrong) the copper in charge decides I am ineligible to possess an FID, then from that they may construe that I am ineligible to possess any firearms and they may come a knock'n with some confiscat'n in mind..

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It may be argued that, if one is not able to obtain an initial FID or have a duplicate FID issued for any administrative reason, and if they are known to be in possession of firearms, then the municipality may decide that the person is ineligible to possess firearms.

 

That's all I'm say'n.

 

For example:  I know I can legally inherit, possess and transport my dead granpappys shotty within the very narrow confines of Newjerseystan's laws without an FID.  But... If I have said shotty in my possession and the coppers are aware that I possess said shotty, and then for any reason (right or wrong) the copper in charge decides I am ineligible to possess an FID, then from that they may construe that I am ineligible to possess any firearms and they may come a knock'n with some confiscat'n in mind..

 

Please go read the statutes. You're not helping by giving incorrect information.

 

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If your new twp has denied a change of address then you are at serious and imminent risk of having the cops visit you any day now to confiscate your firearms.  You technically do not possess a valid FID atm.  You need to act quickly.

 

It may be argued that, if one is not able to obtain an initial FID or have a duplicate FID issued for any administrative reason, and if they are known to be in possession of firearms, then the municipality may decide that the person is ineligible to possess firearms.

 

That's all I'm say'n.

[snip]

 

You have some very unique interpretations of NJ firearms law.  As with the "loaded magazines outside of a firearm still count as a loaded firearm" theory, can you point to any actual arrests, charges, convictions or case history in NJ for this?

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