Guest Posted February 12, 2016 OK so tell us why you are here on NJ gun forum website and why you have lived here? Why? Its none of your business and nothing more than a distraction from the issue we are talking about. But that is a typical left wing move to distract and change the subject. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrfly3006 42 Posted February 12, 2016 Why? Its none of your business and nothing more than a distraction from the issue we are talking about. But that is a typical left wing move to distract and change the subject.Left wing?..really..that's all you have? Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 12, 2016 I only mentioned mags because you did. If you are willing to move and possibly upset your family over an M1, then enjoy! Its not about the M1 but you do not now, and probably never, will be able to understand that If that's what you want to believe then go right ahead. Complying with an AWB is not the same as giving up my guns. What were you saying in 1990 when the original AWB came into affect, did you comply? So you are fine with "common sense" gun laws, right? works both ways..so by moving have you not sacrificed your freedom to live there because of govt action?..so that you can enjoy security in a new location? The NJ govt basically told you to get lost and you complied... How do I sacrifice freedom by moving? The only good things in this state are Jersey tomatoes, Jersey sweet corn and a few sub shops, all things that I can either live without of find in other places. Taxes are high, people are jerks, beaches are polluted, ocean is dirty, air stinks, majority of cops I know are corrupt to some extent, all politicians are corrupt, taxes are high, tolls every time you turn around and the money is not accounted for, no jobs, taxes are high, crime is high, the list goes on and on... Did I mention taxes are high Here's the beauty of it though. NJ passes law and people like myself leave. So yes they forced me out. However NJ becomes more and more of a broke hell hole because they lost more business owners and more jobs. Before this thread and hearing Marty's point of view I was willing to stay and fight. But to fight for those who aren't willing to fight themselves is a fools errand Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk well said!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 12, 2016 Left wing?..really..that's all you have? Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk it is a left wing tactic, you don't have to like it but its true Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrfly3006 42 Posted February 12, 2016 it is a left wing tactic, you don't have to like it but its trueOk so we've established NJ isn't the place for you..happy travels and best of luck whatever place will have the privilege of your company.. Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MartyZ 692 Posted February 12, 2016 Its not about the M1 but you do not now, and probably never, will be able to understand that So you are fine with "common sense" gun laws, right? How do I sacrifice freedom by moving? The only good things in this state are Jersey tomatoes, Jersey sweet corn and a few sub shops, all things that I can either live without of find in other places. Taxes are high, people are jerks, beaches are polluted, ocean is dirty, air stinks, majority of cops I know are corrupt to some extent, all politicians are corrupt, taxes are high, tolls every time you turn around and the money is not accounted for, no jobs, taxes are high, crime is high, the list goes on and on... Did I mention taxes are high well said!! My original comment was not about moving or "common sense" gun laws or the AWB. To use your own tactics, you are changing the subject like a good liberal. My original comment was about people saying "I WILL NOT COMPLY", and the implications of doing so. And if you take a close look my first choice was TO MOVE!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,147 Posted February 12, 2016 Shhhh....just put the star on your arm, keep quiet, don't complain, don't make eye contact or it will only cause trouble. You don't want to be labeled a troublemaker, do you?. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MartyZ 692 Posted February 12, 2016 Why don't we all be honest with ourselves here. For those who say "I WON'T COMPLY, I WILL STAND UP AND FIGHT", answer these questions: - Will you go to the range with your non-compliant gun? - Will you go to a competition with your non-compliant gun? - Will you march on Trenton with your non-compliant gun? - Or will you bury your non-compliant gun in your backyard? If you are burying your gun, or hiding it any other way, then you are not fighting and are full of BS. If you are doing one of the first 3 than my hats off to you, you have bigger balls than I. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bob2222 316 Posted February 12, 2016 works both ways..so by moving have you not sacrificed your freedom to live there because of govt action?..so that you can enjoy security in a new location? The NJ govt basically told you to get lost and you complied... As our governor was kind enough to point out, if I am not physically present in New Jersey for 183 days of the year, I am not a resident of the State of New Jersey. If I am not a resident of the State of New Jersey, I do not need to pay New Jersey income taxes. Since I work out of DC and spend more than half of my time working on a computer, it doesn't really matter if I'm working at my keyboard in New Jersey or in Pennsylvania. (Or in Australia, really.) Last time I visited the carwash (in Monmouth Co) three of the four cars in the back being detailed had PA plates. Daughter works and lives in PA but one of her co-workers commutes from Asbury Park. PA is just not that far away. Our lawyer/accountant spends 1/2 the year in Florida. (Better weather and taxes than PA, to be sure, but a longer drive.) I've told my wife my goal is not to die as a New Jersey resident. She's retired and PA doesn't tax pensions. The only way to kill the corrupt Jersey political system is to cut off its nourishment, which is money. I'm willing to tell the State of New Jersey, okay I'll comply with more of your stupid laws, but on tax day you are the ones who can get lost . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted February 12, 2016 I got an app for my lawn. It's getting pretty good. I think I'll keep at it. I could move, maybe find a better lawn. Then the Nieghbors move in, now weeds. Leave me and my upandcomming lawn if you chose, but those damn weeds! They will follow you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted February 12, 2016 Why don't we all be honest with ourselves here. For those who say "I WON'T COMPLY, I WILL STAND UP AND FIGHT", answer these questions: - Will you go to the range with your non-compliant gun? - Will you go to a competition with your non-compliant gun? - Will you march on Trenton with your non-compliant gun? - Or will you bury your non-compliant gun in your backyard? If you are burying your gun, or hiding it any other way, then you are not fighting and are full of BS. If you are doing one of the first 3 than my hats off to you, you have bigger balls than I. That is BS. Not complying means I will not turn in my guns. I will not move them out of state or bury them. However I won't take them to a competition full of people afraid to fight the fight. If range allows them yes I will bring them there and shoot them. If not I will shoot at alternative locations within the state. This whole argument is hypothetical and based on if they passed such draconian gun laws. Where has letter writing and phone calls got us? If the great majority refused to comply they would have to build new prisons to house us and feed us. That wouldn't happen because the state can't afford it, so their laws would be meaningless. However because in such a small sampling as this thread, I see multiple people afraid to do anything, based on a hypothetical, I realize that staying and fighting is pointless, because how many more will fold when actually faced with arrest? For a strategy of mass rebellion to work the vast majority would have to participate. Realizing that participation will be low, I would rather be somewhere where my Constitutional Rights are not infringed upon. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MartyZ 692 Posted February 12, 2016 That is BS. Not complying means I will not turn in my guns. I will not move them out of state or bury them. However I won't take them to a competition full of people afraid to fight the fight. If range allows them yes I will bring them there and shoot them. If not I will shoot at alternative locations within the state. This whole argument is hypothetical and based on if they passed such draconian gun laws. Where has letter writing and phone calls got us? If the great majority refused to comply they would have to build new prisons to house us and feed us. That wouldn't happen because the state can't afford it, so their laws would be meaningless. However because in such a small sampling as this thread, I see multiple people afraid to do anything, based on a hypothetical, I realize that staying and fighting is pointless, because how many more will fold when actually faced with arrest? For a strategy of mass rebellion to work the vast majority would have to participate. Realizing that participation will be low, I would rather be somewhere where my Constitutional Rights are not infringed upon. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk So, your not willing to get arrested either huh? At least i'm honest about it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted February 12, 2016 So, your not willing to get arrested either huh? At least i'm honest about it!Wrong I am willing to get arrested and face prison time assuming my strategy of mass protest is taken up. Ultimately do I want to go to prison no, my gamble is we won't go to prison because they won't be able to house us all. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MartyZ 692 Posted February 12, 2016 Wrong I am willing to get arrested and face prison time assuming my strategy of mass protest is taken up. Ultimately do I want to go to prison no, my gamble is we won't go to prison because they won't be able to house us all. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Exactly, and from previous 2A protests that have occurred, and not only in NJ, there were never enough people involved to make it overwhelming for them to arrest everyone. And that is why I have my current opinion. If we ever get ten thousand people to protest at the same time with Non-compliant weapons then i'm in. But until then, like you say, it's not worth the gamble. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MartyZ 692 Posted February 12, 2016 That is BS. Not complying means I will not turn in my guns. I will not move them out of state or bury them. However I won't take them to a competition full of people afraid to fight the fight. If range allows them yes I will bring them there and shoot them. If not I will shoot at alternative locations within the state. This whole argument is hypothetical and based on if they passed such draconian gun laws. Where has letter writing and phone calls got us? If the great majority refused to comply they would have to build new prisons to house us and feed us. That wouldn't happen because the state can't afford it, so their laws would be meaningless. However because in such a small sampling as this thread, I see multiple people afraid to do anything, based on a hypothetical, I realize that staying and fighting is pointless, because how many more will fold when actually faced with arrest? For a strategy of mass rebellion to work the vast majority would have to participate. Realizing that participation will be low, I would rather be somewhere where my Constitutional Rights are not infringed upon. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Hiding a gun to me is the same as not having it. For me at least, a hidden gun is a useless gun. I would rather comply then not use, because most modifications can be reversed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted February 12, 2016 Exactly, and from previous 2A protests that have occurred, and not only in NJ, there were never enough people involved to make it overwhelming for them to arrest everyone. And that is why I have my current opinion. If we ever get ten thousand people to protest at the same time with Non-compliant weapons then i'm in. But until then, like you say, it's not worth the gamble.So you would be willing to get arrested? Because we would likely be arrested. The end game is they will not be able to imprison and house us thus making their laws ineffective. This would also mean once arrested refusing to comply with turning in of any firearms? Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MartyZ 692 Posted February 12, 2016 So you would be willing to get arrested? Because we would likely be arrested. The end game is they will not be able to imprison and house us thus making their laws ineffective. This would also mean once arrested refusing to comply with turning in of any firearms? Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk I don't mind getting arrested, what I do mind is being prosecuted, spending money on legal fees, and possibly going to prison. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted February 12, 2016 Hiding a gun to me is the same as not having it. For me at least, a hidden gun is a useless gun. I would rather comply then not use, because most modifications can be reversed.Where did I say I would hide it? I think I said I would not bury any firearms, remove them from the state and still shoot them. I don't shoot competitively so that part doesn't really apply to me. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MartyZ 692 Posted February 12, 2016 Where did I say I would hide it? I think I said I would not bury any firearms, remove them from the state and still shoot them. I don't shoot competitively so that part doesn't really apply to me. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk If I could move them out of state then I would, but as I stated earlier I have no where out of state to move them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted February 12, 2016 I don't mind getting arrested, what I do mind is being prosecuted, spending money on legal fees, and possibly going to prison.The possibility of prison will exist. It is a calculated risk that if everyone took I think would be worth taking and would finally win the fight. If they realize their laws are unenforceable they will stop trying to make new ones. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MartyZ 692 Posted February 12, 2016 The possibility of prison will exist. It is a calculated risk that if everyone took I think would be worth taking and would finally win the fight. If they realize their laws are unenforceable they will stop trying to make new ones. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk And that is the reason that I say for me it's not worth the risk, not for this particular legislation. If I didn't have kids then my views would be different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted February 12, 2016 And that is the reason that I say for me it's not worth the risk, not for this particular legislation. If I didn't have kids then my views would be different.I have kids and I am willing to take the risk so my kids can live free, but since so many others are afraid to the strategy of mass rebellion will not work. Thus I will go with plan B move to a place they can live free. Just remember if they pass 7 rounds next it will be 5 rounds. Eventually you will only be allowed to have single shot firearms. I hope you get a lot of time at the range to hone your skills, in case one day you need to protect your family. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted February 12, 2016 Great discussion here. Lets keep it civil. Good points on whether to stay and fight or leave and let state rot. Honestly, I think the only way to let them understand is to leave. Who is John Galt? Sent from my BlackBerry PRIV, the most secure Android device via Tapatalk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted February 12, 2016 So there are a few blurred lines here being drawn in the sand, IMO. No they cannot arrest everyone. They can make examples of some. Moving them out of state is not the same as complying......or giving up. Leaving the state is not the same as complying.......or giving up. Me personally, I am done with this state for any number of reasons, one being the anti gun climate, but there are a plethora of others as well. The one thing that should be pointed out and I am NOT taking a side, just illustrating a point. See how the feds squashed the occupation in Oregon? Why? Because those protesting took up a position that was ultimately untenable and how many 'patriots' ran to their aid. Now that situation may be markedly different but it is illustrative of when you force a hand, many will just rollover. The same can and would happen in this state *if* there was a real push for confiscation. You would not have any rallying forces to your side if you make a stand, you will be labeled a terrorist, anti gov whacko and you will lose. Mobility is life....time to leave the NE They did use divide and conquer in Oregon and it worked. Also Patriots didn't run to their side because most in the know realized it was about big business such as mining and ranching and not about using state lands for the public. Even though Bundy standoff was the same reasoning, most Patriots bought into Bundy's BS, and government did back down, even though they had counter snipers on the bridge and normally would have all been arrested. I think the Patriot movement took Oregon as fool me once shame on me fool me twice shame on you. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted February 12, 2016 Proposed question at the PA Forum what would they do if hypothetically their legislature was ruled by Liberal Dems overnight and governor signed similar law as proposed in NJ. Refreshingly not one person said they would comply regardless of possible prison time. A former NJ Resident now living in PA gave 7 great reasons to move there. One of which was PA gun rallies are passionate and effective. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parker 213 Posted February 13, 2016 Remember a guy named Jim Florio? How many gave up their guns more than two decades ago or registered their guns, sold them, or turned them in? Allow yourself to be taken back in the time machine: http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/18/nyregion/new-jersey-votes-the-strictest-law-in-the-nation-on-assault-weapons.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted February 13, 2016 I was around the last time. NO ONE, surrendered anything that I knew of. It all went to PA, which will happen again. In fact anyone want to invest in a storage/store/shooting facility? Could be a big money maker short term. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhunted 887 Posted February 13, 2016 Reminder: If you all won't comply, if they try to purge you forcefully due to your belief, you become a felon over-night, all that jazz, blah blah blah.... You just did it all for naught. Making your weapons go missing and not reporting them as so, will make you a felon. I'm not condoning this, but if you really want to have the Molon Labe mentality, the only way you will be a patriot is going down fighting. That means firing the first shot. If you do not, you lose. Nothing will be gained. If you do, you lose. Your family loses. It's a lose lose for possibly both sides. They may lose a few LEO or whatever, but in the end, you will lose or die. Then, all guns are confiscated after your death. Your family is left holding the bag. Your families lives will continue to be ruined mentally, physically, financially, publicly, etc... So move your stuff or go to jail or die. No other possible out-come in that aspect. You have to draw your own line in the sand. NJ is not Oregon. No arm chair patriots will show up on your door step to protect you because this is NJ where nobody gives a ratz arse about anyone. PERIOD! OR - figure out a way to stop these draconian laws before it comes to the above! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Knuckle Sandwich 5 Posted February 13, 2016 The reality of the situation has already been stated. This will become law in 3 years. Christie will veto it for the rest of his term. It will be on the next guy's desk within 3 months of his arrival and signed. If the 2nd amendment means enough to you to leave, then leave. Three years is tight, but doable, for an exit strategy depending on your situation. If the 2nd amendment only means enough to you that exporting your guns out of state is a reasonable inconvenience, then export them out of state for use out of state, and stay in NJ. Finally, if none of that is amenable, comply, bend over, and accept your rights are effectively gone. We literally do not have the numbers to effect change through civil action. There will be no Federal intervention, the Courts are done with the 2A for the foreseeable future. eta: One thing that had me thinking the other day, reminiscing about Heller and the various Supreme Court activity in the past decade. All that time, money, and effort expended and what did anyone actually gain from it? As far as I know it is still difficult to get guns in places where it was difficult to get guns. It is still effectively impossible to carry in places it was impossible to carry before. All that pomp and bloviating, and one could argue things are worse in as many places as they got better, if they got better at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted February 13, 2016 Three years, try January 2018, 23 months away. It will happen to what extent depends on 2016 Federal elections as we vote for POTUS, 34 Senators (24 are currently Republican, 9 could possibly loose and there is only 8 seats separating control) and the entire 435 member of Congress. Lose one, not to bad, lose two, 2A in deep trouble. Then NJ in Fall of 2017. Losing additional 2A rights after that will be nothing compared to the crap we will be hit with regarding fees, taxes, and other stuff. I will venture to say NJ will declare bankruptcy by 2020 without a doubt. Current spending, free stuff is unsustainable. Democrats will enact crap you never evened dreamed of. The only two things left is move, or motivate those to vote. Period. http://www.270towin.com/2015-senate/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites