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Oh look the Safe Act migrating South to NJ

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OK so tell us why you are here on NJ gun forum website and why you have lived here?

 

Why? Its none of your business and nothing more than a distraction from the issue we are talking about. But that is a typical left wing move to distract and change the subject.

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Why? Its none of your business and nothing more than a distraction from the issue we are talking about. But that is a typical left wing move to distract and change the subject.

Left wing?..really..that's all you have?

 

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I only mentioned mags because you did. If you are willing to move and possibly upset your family over an M1, then enjoy!

 

Its not about the M1 but you do not now, and probably never, will be able to understand that

 

If that's what you want to believe then go right ahead. Complying with an AWB is not the same as giving up my guns. What were you saying in 1990 when the original AWB came into affect, did you comply?

 

So you are fine with "common sense" gun laws, right?

 

works both ways..so by moving have you not sacrificed your freedom to live there because of govt action?..so that you can enjoy security in a new location? The NJ govt basically told you to get lost and you complied...

 

How do I sacrifice freedom by moving? The only good things in this state are Jersey tomatoes, Jersey sweet corn and a few sub shops, all things that I can either live without of find in other places.

Taxes are high, people are jerks, beaches are polluted, ocean is dirty, air stinks, majority of cops I know are corrupt to some extent, all politicians are corrupt, taxes are high, tolls every time you turn around and the money is not accounted for, no jobs, taxes are high, crime is high, the list goes on and on... Did I mention taxes are high

 

Here's the beauty of it though. NJ passes law and people like myself leave. So yes they forced me out. However NJ becomes more and more of a broke hell hole because they lost more business owners and more jobs. Before this thread and hearing Marty's point of view I was willing to stay and fight. But to fight for those who aren't willing to fight themselves is a fools errand

 

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well said!!

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Left wing?..really..that's all you have?

 

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it is a left wing tactic, you don't have to like it but its true

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Its not about the M1 but you do not now, and probably never, will be able to understand that

 

 

So you are fine with "common sense" gun laws, right?

 

 

How do I sacrifice freedom by moving? The only good things in this state are Jersey tomatoes, Jersey sweet corn and a few sub shops, all things that I can either live without of find in other places.

Taxes are high, people are jerks, beaches are polluted, ocean is dirty, air stinks, majority of cops I know are corrupt to some extent, all politicians are corrupt, taxes are high, tolls every time you turn around and the money is not accounted for, no jobs, taxes are high, crime is high, the list goes on and on... Did I mention taxes are high

 

 

well said!!

My original comment was not about moving or "common sense" gun laws or the AWB. To use your own tactics, you are changing the subject like a good liberal.

 

My original comment was about people saying "I WILL NOT COMPLY", and the implications of doing so. And if you take a close look my first choice was TO MOVE!!!

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Why don't we all be honest with ourselves here. For those who say "I WON'T COMPLY, I WILL STAND UP AND FIGHT", answer these questions:

 

- Will you go to the range with your non-compliant gun?

- Will you go to a competition with your non-compliant gun?

- Will you march on Trenton with your non-compliant gun?

 

- Or will you bury your non-compliant gun in your backyard?

 

If you are burying your gun, or hiding it any other way, then you are not fighting and are full of BS. If you are doing one of the first 3 than my hats off to you, you have bigger balls than I.

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works both ways..so by moving have you not sacrificed your freedom to live there because of govt action?..so that you can enjoy security in a new location? The NJ govt basically told you to get lost and you complied...

 

As our governor was kind enough to point out, if I am not physically present in New Jersey for 183 days of the year, I am not a resident of the State of New Jersey. If I am not a resident of the State of New Jersey, I do not need to pay New Jersey income taxes.

 

Since I work out of DC and spend more than half of my time working on a computer, it doesn't really matter if I'm working at my keyboard in New Jersey or in Pennsylvania. (Or in Australia, really.)

 

Last time I visited the carwash (in Monmouth Co) three of the four cars in the back being detailed had PA plates. Daughter works and lives in PA but one of her co-workers commutes from Asbury Park. PA is just not that far away.

 

Our lawyer/accountant spends 1/2 the year in Florida. (Better weather and taxes than PA, to be sure, but a longer drive.)

 

I've told my wife my goal is not to die as a New Jersey resident. She's retired and PA doesn't tax pensions.

 

The only way to kill the corrupt Jersey political system is to cut off its nourishment, which is money. I'm willing to tell the State of New Jersey, okay I'll comply with more of your stupid laws, but on tax day you are the ones who can get lost .

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I got an app for my lawn. It's getting pretty good. I think I'll keep at it. I could move, maybe find a better lawn. Then the Nieghbors move in, now weeds.

 

Leave me and my upandcomming lawn if you chose, but those damn weeds!

They will follow you

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Why don't we all be honest with ourselves here. For those who say "I WON'T COMPLY, I WILL STAND UP AND FIGHT", answer these questions:

 

- Will you go to the range with your non-compliant gun?

- Will you go to a competition with your non-compliant gun?

- Will you march on Trenton with your non-compliant gun?

 

- Or will you bury your non-compliant gun in your backyard?

 

If you are burying your gun, or hiding it any other way, then you are not fighting and are full of BS. If you are doing one of the first 3 than my hats off to you, you have bigger balls than I.

That is BS. Not complying means I will not turn in my guns. I will not move them out of state or bury them. However I won't take them to a competition full of people afraid to fight the fight. If range allows them yes I will bring them there and shoot them. If not I will shoot at alternative locations within the state. This whole argument is hypothetical and based on if they passed such draconian gun laws. Where has letter writing and phone calls got us? If the great majority refused to comply they would have to build new prisons to house us and feed us. That wouldn't happen because the state can't afford it, so their laws would be meaningless. However because in such a small sampling as this thread, I see multiple people afraid to do anything, based on a hypothetical, I realize that staying and fighting is pointless, because how many more will fold when actually faced with arrest? For a strategy of mass rebellion to work the vast majority would have to participate. Realizing that participation will be low, I would rather be somewhere where my Constitutional Rights are not infringed upon.

 

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That is BS. Not complying means I will not turn in my guns. I will not move them out of state or bury them. However I won't take them to a competition full of people afraid to fight the fight. If range allows them yes I will bring them there and shoot them. If not I will shoot at alternative locations within the state. This whole argument is hypothetical and based on if they passed such draconian gun laws. Where has letter writing and phone calls got us? If the great majority refused to comply they would have to build new prisons to house us and feed us. That wouldn't happen because the state can't afford it, so their laws would be meaningless. However because in such a small sampling as this thread, I see multiple people afraid to do anything, based on a hypothetical, I realize that staying and fighting is pointless, because how many more will fold when actually faced with arrest? For a strategy of mass rebellion to work the vast majority would have to participate. Realizing that participation will be low, I would rather be somewhere where my Constitutional Rights are not infringed upon.

 

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So, your not willing to get arrested either huh? At least i'm honest about it!

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So, your not willing to get arrested either huh? At least i'm honest about it!

Wrong I am willing to get arrested and face prison time assuming my strategy of mass protest is taken up. Ultimately do I want to go to prison no, my gamble is we won't go to prison because they won't be able to house us all.

 

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Wrong I am willing to get arrested and face prison time assuming my strategy of mass protest is taken up. Ultimately do I want to go to prison no, my gamble is we won't go to prison because they won't be able to house us all.

 

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Exactly, and from previous 2A protests that have occurred, and not only in NJ, there were never enough people involved to make it overwhelming for them to arrest everyone. And that is why I have my current opinion.  If we ever get ten thousand people to protest at the same time with Non-compliant weapons then i'm in.  But until then, like you say, it's not worth the gamble.

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That is BS. Not complying means I will not turn in my guns. I will not move them out of state or bury them. However I won't take them to a competition full of people afraid to fight the fight. If range allows them yes I will bring them there and shoot them. If not I will shoot at alternative locations within the state. This whole argument is hypothetical and based on if they passed such draconian gun laws. Where has letter writing and phone calls got us? If the great majority refused to comply they would have to build new prisons to house us and feed us. That wouldn't happen because the state can't afford it, so their laws would be meaningless. However because in such a small sampling as this thread, I see multiple people afraid to do anything, based on a hypothetical, I realize that staying and fighting is pointless, because how many more will fold when actually faced with arrest? For a strategy of mass rebellion to work the vast majority would have to participate. Realizing that participation will be low, I would rather be somewhere where my Constitutional Rights are not infringed upon.

 

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Hiding a gun to me is the same as not having it. For me at least, a hidden gun is a useless gun. I would rather comply then not use, because most modifications can be reversed. 

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Exactly, and from previous 2A protests that have occurred, and not only in NJ, there were never enough people involved to make it overwhelming for them to arrest everyone. And that is why I have my current opinion. If we ever get ten thousand people to protest at the same time with Non-compliant weapons then i'm in. But until then, like you say, it's not worth the gamble.

So you would be willing to get arrested? Because we would likely be arrested. The end game is they will not be able to imprison and house us thus making their laws ineffective. This would also mean once arrested refusing to comply with turning in of any firearms?

 

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So you would be willing to get arrested? Because we would likely be arrested. The end game is they will not be able to imprison and house us thus making their laws ineffective. This would also mean once arrested refusing to comply with turning in of any firearms?

 

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I don't mind getting arrested, what I do mind is being prosecuted, spending money on legal fees, and possibly going to prison.

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Hiding a gun to me is the same as not having it. For me at least, a hidden gun is a useless gun. I would rather comply then not use, because most modifications can be reversed.

Where did I say I would hide it? I think I said I would not bury any firearms, remove them from the state and still shoot them. I don't shoot competitively so that part doesn't really apply to me.

 

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Where did I say I would hide it? I think I said I would not bury any firearms, remove them from the state and still shoot them. I don't shoot competitively so that part doesn't really apply to me.

 

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If I could move them out of state then I would, but as I stated earlier I have no where out of state to move them.

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I don't mind getting arrested, what I do mind is being prosecuted, spending money on legal fees, and possibly going to prison.

The possibility of prison will exist. It is a calculated risk that if everyone took I think would be worth taking and would finally win the fight. If they realize their laws are unenforceable they will stop trying to make new ones.

 

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The possibility of prison will exist. It is a calculated risk that if everyone took I think would be worth taking and would finally win the fight. If they realize their laws are unenforceable they will stop trying to make new ones.

 

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And that is the reason that I say for me it's not worth the risk, not for this particular legislation. If I didn't have kids then my views would be different.

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And that is the reason that I say for me it's not worth the risk, not for this particular legislation. If I didn't have kids then my views would be different.

I have kids and I am willing to take the risk so my kids can live free, but since so many others are afraid to the strategy of mass rebellion will not work. Thus I will go with plan B move to a place they can live free. Just remember if they pass 7 rounds next it will be 5 rounds. Eventually you will only be allowed to have single shot firearms. I hope you get a lot of time at the range to hone your skills, in case one day you need to protect your family.

 

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Great discussion here. Lets keep it civil.

 

Good points on whether to stay and fight or leave and let state rot. Honestly, I think the only way to let them understand is to leave.

 

Who is John Galt?

 

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So there are a few blurred lines here being drawn in the sand, IMO.

 

No they cannot arrest everyone.

 

They can make examples of some.

 

Moving them out of state is not the same as complying......or giving up.

 

Leaving the state is not the same as complying.......or giving up.

 

Me personally, I am done with this state for any number of reasons, one being the anti gun climate, but there are a plethora of others as well.

 

The one thing that should be pointed out and I am NOT taking a side, just illustrating a point.

See how the feds squashed the occupation in Oregon? Why? Because those protesting took up a position that was ultimately untenable and how many 'patriots' ran to their aid. Now that situation may be markedly different but it is illustrative of when you force a hand, many will just rollover.

 

The same can and would happen in this state *if* there was a real push for confiscation. You would not have any rallying forces to your side if you make a stand, you will be labeled a terrorist, anti gov whacko and you will lose.

 

Mobility is life....time to leave the NE

They did use divide and conquer in Oregon and it worked. Also Patriots didn't run to their side because most in the know realized it was about big business such as mining and ranching and not about using state lands for the public. Even though Bundy standoff was the same reasoning, most Patriots bought into Bundy's BS, and government did back down, even though they had counter snipers on the bridge and normally would have all been arrested. I think the Patriot movement took Oregon as fool me once shame on me fool me twice shame on you.

 

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Proposed question at the PA Forum what would they do if hypothetically their legislature was ruled by Liberal Dems overnight and governor signed similar law as proposed in NJ. Refreshingly not one person said they would comply regardless of possible prison time. A former NJ Resident now living in PA gave 7 great reasons to move there. One of which was PA gun rallies are passionate and effective.

 

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Remember a guy named Jim Florio? How many gave up their guns more than two decades ago or registered their guns, sold them, or turned them in? Allow yourself to be taken back in the time machine: 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/18/nyregion/new-jersey-votes-the-strictest-law-in-the-nation-on-assault-weapons.html

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I was around the last time. NO ONE, surrendered anything that I knew of. It all went to PA, which will happen again.  In fact anyone want to invest in a storage/store/shooting facility?  Could be a big money maker short term.

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Reminder: If you all won't comply, if they try to purge you forcefully due to your belief, you become a felon over-night, all that jazz, blah blah blah.... You just did it all for naught. Making your weapons go missing and not reporting them as so, will make you a felon.
 

I'm not condoning this, but if you really want to have the Molon Labe mentality, the only way you will be a patriot is going down fighting. That means firing the first shot. If you do not, you lose. Nothing will be gained. If you do, you lose. Your family loses. It's a lose lose for possibly both sides. They may lose a few LEO or whatever, but in the end, you will lose or die. Then, all guns are confiscated after your death. Your family is left holding the bag. Your families lives will continue to be ruined mentally, physically, financially, publicly, etc...

 

So move your stuff or go to jail or die. No other possible out-come in that aspect. You have to draw your own line in the sand. NJ is not Oregon. No arm chair patriots will show up on your door step to protect you because this is NJ where nobody gives a ratz arse about anyone. PERIOD! OR - figure out a way to stop these draconian laws before it comes to the above!

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The reality of the situation has already been stated. This will become law in 3 years. Christie will veto it for the rest of his term. It will be on the next guy's desk within 3 months of his arrival and signed.

 

If the 2nd amendment means enough to you to leave, then leave. Three years is tight, but doable, for an exit strategy depending on your situation.

 

If the 2nd amendment only means enough to you that exporting your guns out of state is a reasonable inconvenience, then export them out of state for use out of state, and stay in NJ.

 

Finally, if none of that is amenable, comply, bend over, and accept your rights are effectively gone.

 

We literally do not have the numbers to effect change through civil action. There will be no Federal intervention, the Courts are done with the 2A for the foreseeable future.

 

11614552-large.jpg

 

eta: One thing that had me thinking the other day, reminiscing about Heller and the various Supreme Court activity in the past decade. All that time, money, and effort expended and what did anyone actually gain from it? As far as I know it is still difficult to get guns in places where it was difficult to get guns. It is still effectively impossible to carry in places it was impossible to carry before. All that pomp and bloviating, and one could argue things are worse in as many places as they got better, if they got better at all.

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Three years, try January 2018, 23 months away.  It will happen to what extent depends on 2016 Federal elections as we vote for POTUS, 34 Senators (24 are currently Republican, 9 could possibly loose and there is only 8 seats separating control) and the entire 435 member of Congress. Lose one, not to bad, lose two, 2A in deep trouble.  Then NJ in Fall of 2017.  Losing additional 2A rights after that will be nothing compared to the crap we will be hit with regarding fees, taxes, and other stuff. I will venture to say NJ will declare bankruptcy by 2020 without a doubt.  Current spending, free stuff is unsustainable.  Democrats will enact crap you never evened dreamed of.

 

The only two things left is move, or motivate those to vote. Period.

 

http://www.270towin.com/2015-senate/

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