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If You Carry A Gun In America

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Here is an article on the major topics to consider if you are going to carry a firearm. I realize 99% of the NJ residents on the forum have no chance of a NJ permit. But others have out-of-state permits, or have firearms in the house for self defense. In either case the article's information is worth reading.

 

It's a long one, because exceptions to general rules and examples are included. The article is Arizona specific, but the general points, especially about interacting with police after a shooting, are relevant anywhere. You may not agree with every specific suggestion, but I thought his overall strategy was good and in line with many other authors I've read on this topic.

 

One thing I learned from the author is that in spite of being very firearm friendly, AZ will give you a mandatory jail sentence for misuse of a firearm, even on a first offense.

 

The author is also on YouTube with videos that repeat some of the points in this article.

 

I guess my main reason for seeking out this kind of information is to think ahead and have my strategies thought out before any SHTF.

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Very sound advice however I strongly disagree with this statement "I realize there may be actual tactical reasons to the contrary, but I recommend you do not carry your firearm with a round in the chamber. " this to me is a head scratcher. He sites concerns regarding accidental discharge as the reason. Bigger head scratcher. JMOP

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Very sound advice however I strongly disagree with this statement "I realize there may be actual tactical reasons to the contrary, but I recommend you do not carry your firearm with a round in the chamber. " this to me is a head scratcher. He sites concerns regarding accidental discharge as the reason. Bigger head scratcher. JMOP

Yes that's one piece of his advice I wouldn't take. And he didn't account for those who carry revolvers.

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Good article.  I read the whole thing.

 

I like this statement.

 

“I refuse to consent to any search whatsoever.  As such, I do not consent to a search of my premises, my person, my immediate location or any vehicle or effects.  I hereby exercise my rights as enumerated by the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Ninth and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution.  I demand to have my attorney present prior to and throughout any questioning at all.  Additionally, I request to call my attorney right now for a private legal consultation.”

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Very sound advice however I strongly disagree with this statement "I realize there may be actual tactical reasons to the contrary, but I recommend you do not carry your firearm with a round in the chamber. " this to me is a head scratcher. He sites concerns regarding accidental discharge as the reason. Bigger head scratcher. JMOP

He's a lawyer, not a fighter. He is more concerned with keeping you out of jail and/or winning a lawsuit than winning a fight. He is also protecting himself and is not going to write something that you can use against him in lawsuit later on.

 

I can see where he is coming from, even though he is wrong.

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HE I by that, how about not commenting one way or the other then you need not worry about the potential reprecussions. He went from legal advice to advice on carry method which given his advice is a head scratcher, how about some prosecuter references this same recommendation later during questioning......

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From the article;

 

"...you would be well served to study the law, and to think about its application before carrying, or even owning, a firearm.

 

This article is no substitute for studying the law regarding firearms and self-defense.  Reading this article will not teach you everything you need to know about carrying or using a firearm; far from it.  I recommend that all gun owners take an initial comprehensive gun safety class as well as a refresher class on a regular basis from a qualified instructor.  Carrying a firearm is a huge responsibility. 

 

There is no room for error.  I have seen many lives changed forever based on an erroneous split second decision or an honest mistake."

 

Pffft. 

 

Obviously just another anti, troll, against-us, liberal.

 

I say we ban him...

 

:onthequiet:

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Good article. I read the whole thing.

 

I like this statement.

 

“I refuse to consent to any search whatsoever. As such, I do not consent to a search of my premises, my person, my immediate location or any vehicle or effects. I hereby exercise my rights as enumerated by the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Ninth and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution. I demand to have my attorney present prior to and throughout any questioning at all. Additionally, I request to call my attorney right now for a private legal consultation.”

Any attorney worth his salt should always advise his clients not to consent but that doesn't mean that a search is not going to occur, either by warrant or by the continuation of the incident as it is occurring.

 

He probably should have mentioned that.

 

:good:

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Any attorney worth his salt should always advise his clients not to consent but that doesn't mean that a search is not going to occur, either by warrant or by the continuation of the incident as it is occurring, or by illegal searches done anyway because they are the government.

 

He probably should have mentioned that.

 

:good:

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Here is an article on the major topics to consider if you are going to carry a firearm. I realize 99% of the NJ residents on the forum have no chance of a NJ permit. But others have out-of-state permits, or have firearms in the house for self defense. In either case the article's information is worth reading.

 

It's a long one, because exceptions to general rules and examples are included. The article is Arizona specific, but the general points, especially about interacting with police after a shooting, are relevant anywhere. You may not agree with every specific suggestion, but I thought his overall strategy was good and in line with many other authors I've read on this topic.

 

One thing I learned from the author is that in spite of being very firearm friendly, AZ will give you a mandatory jail sentence for misuse of a firearm, even on a first offense.

 

The author is also on YouTube with videos that repeat some of the points in this article.

 

I guess my main reason for seeking out this kind of information is to think ahead and have my strategies thought out before any SHTF.

Very good article. I have been a huge advocate of "Don't Talk to the Police" for many years. However, the writer and the law professor in the video ignore a very important point.

 

The cop shows up, sees you looking sheepish, sees a guy writhing on the floor or dead. How is the officer to have any inkling that the shooting was lawful?

 

"Did you fire the shot?"

"I invoke my 5th Amendment rights."

 

"Did he break in?" 

"I invoke my 5th Amendment rights."

 

"Did you know him?"

"I invoke my 5th Amendment rights."

 

 

A cop in a bad mood that day could very well assume the situation was fishy and arrest you. At that point you can add $5000 to your legal bill if -- if -- you can get your lawyer up at 1:30 in the morning. Plus you'll need to post bail, which for a homicide will be on the brisk side.

 

There must be something you can say that's like a get out of jail free card. "I was awakened about 15 minutes ago by the sound of an intruder (someone breaking in , walking around downstairs, opening the cabinets). He attacked me. I shot him with my legal handgun. I henceforth invoke my 5th Amendment rights. Any further communication between us must involve my attorney."

 

I don't see anything in that statement that could possibly be used against anyone but the perp. And it immediately gets the cops off your back. 

 

This is the kind of info that all pro-2A organizations should post and distribute. Why don't they?

 

Any lawyers feel like chiming in?

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Newtonian, that's pretty much exactly the advice I got my Massod Ayoob. If there's a dead guy lying on the floor of your house it's easier to say something. Obviously something happened. "You were forced to shoot him/them to defend yourself and/or family and now with all due respect your shaken up and want to talk to you lawyer after which time you'd be happy to give a full statement". Done.

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The cop shows up, sees you looking sheepish, sees a guy writhing on the floor or dead. How is the officer to have any inkling that the shooting was lawful?

 

An excellent point, which is one Massad Ayoob notes in his approach to after-shooting interaction with the police. I think put generically the strategy would be state any relevant facts, but don't offer any opinions or reasoning. Example:

 

1. I am the victim. I will sign a complaint.

2. The person on the floor is the assailant.

3. The knife he was holding is under my couch. (Or any other similar statement of hard evidence, including any witnesses you may know of.)

4. He broke through the door to my house, as you can see.

5. You will have my full cooperation, but I now exercise my 5th amendment right to remain silent and I will not answer any further questions until I have consulted with my attorney.

6. Repeat number 5 as often as necessary.

 

I would not recount how things went down, what I was thinking, how I felt etc. as those are the major items open for misinterpretation. What you actually say will be one thing; what is voiced in court (as in recollected by police officers) might be quite different. If I ever have to shoot someone in self defense I fully expect to be arrested and not to be able to talk myself out of that.

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Very good article. I have been a huge advocate of "Don't Talk to the Police" for many years. However, the writer and the law professor in the video ignore a very important point.

 

The cop shows up, sees you looking sheepish, sees a guy writhing on the floor or dead. How is the officer to have any inkling that the shooting was lawful?

 

"Did you fire the shot?"

"I invoke my 5th Amendment rights."

 

"Did he break in?" 

"I invoke my 5th Amendment rights."

 

"Did you know him?"

"I invoke my 5th Amendment rights."

 

 

A cop in a bad mood that day could very well assume the situation was fishy and arrest you. At that point you can add $5000 to your legal bill if -- if -- you can get your lawyer up at 1:30 in the morning. Plus you'll need to post bail, which for a homicide will be on the brisk side.

 

There must be something you can say that's like a get out of jail free card. "I was awakened about 15 minutes ago by the sound of an intruder (someone breaking in , walking around downstairs, opening the cabinets). He attacked me. I shot him with my legal handgun. I henceforth invoke my 5th Amendment rights. Any further communication between us must involve my attorney."

 

I don't see anything in that statement that could possibly be used against anyone but the perp. And it immediately gets the cops off your back. 

 

This is the kind of info that all pro-2A organizations should post and distribute. Why don't they?

 

Any lawyers feel like chiming in?

 

 

You made one mistake. You admitted murder, and identified yourself as the perpetrator.

 

Believe it or not, not admitting you murdered someone, in self defense or otherwise, no matter how obvious you think it looks, might get you home in time for breakfast and throw things into limbo for a little while as your lawyer gets to work. Also, a self defense claim can limit your options, and you will always give out baggage to support it. And, the cops will write down your statement however they want or what is on their mind at the time. When they get it wrong, or lie, it is always to your detriment.

 

Either say you are exercising your 5th and 4th Amendment rights and say nothing else or go with Ayoob's advice of pointing out evidence. There is no need to say you killed someone. And NEVER answer a question, you waive your rights. You can still shut up, but it provides a line of evidence to Probable Cause if you answer ANY question and then stop. Even, "Are you OK?"

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You made one mistake. You admitted murder, and identified yourself as the perpetrator.

 

Believe it or not, not admitting you murdered someone, in self defense or otherwise, no matter how obvious you think it looks, might get you home in time for breakfast and throw things into limbo for a little while as your lawyer gets to work. Also, a self defense claim can limit your options, and you will always give out baggage to support it. And, the cops will write down your statement however they want or what is on their mind at the time. When they get it wrong, or lie, it is always to your detriment.

 

Either say you are exercising your 5th and 4th Amendment rights and say nothing else or go with Ayoob's advice of pointing out evidence. There is no need to say you killed someone. And NEVER answer a question, you waive your rights. You can still shut up, but it provides a line of evidence to Probable Cause if you answer ANY question and then stop. Even, "Are you OK?"

If the cop does not suspect that the 911 caller, the person standing amidst the corpus delecti (not to mention right by the corpse), did not kill the guy lying on the floor, then he needs to go back to the academy. Is that sufficient reason to arrest you in the absence of any explanation? I don't know.

 

61 year old white home owner and two 20 year old black guys, 2am: pretty obvious. 61 year old white home owner, 50 year old white heroin fiend, 9:30 pm, nobody else home, I dunno. Was he over for a card game? Was he a gay guy you met on Facebook? I absolutely have no clue what would go through an officer's mind in that situation. No idea if they would delay a few days or arrest on the spot.

 

Under no circumstances would I provide any details except the basic, obvious facts. No description of a pitched battle involving deadly weapons, where I stood and in what direction he was facing, whether he called me a guinea bastit. Just enough to stay in my home that night and at least delay my entry into the sewer that is the US criminal justice system.

 

Totally and completely different situation than if the cops show up at your door with a warrant to arrest you for robbing the 1st National Bank, Chicago, or for killing somebody in Vineland three years ago. Then you just STFU. Obvious. "I was never in Vineland" can't possibly help you. Let your lawyer tell it to the judge. Totally different situation.

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An excellent point, which is one Massad Ayoob notes in his approach to after-shooting interaction with the police. I think put generically the strategy would be state any relevant facts, but don't offer any opinions or reasoning. Example:

 

1. I am the victim. I will sign a complaint.

2. The person on the floor is the assailant.

3. The knife he was holding is under my couch. (Or any other similar statement of hard evidence, including any witnesses you may know of.)

4. He broke through the door to my house, as you can see.

5. You will have my full cooperation, but I now exercise my 5th amendment right to remain silent and I will not answer any further questions until I have consulted with my attorney.

6. Repeat number 5 as often as necessary.

 

I would not recount how things went down, what I was thinking, how I felt etc. as those are the major items open for misinterpretation. What you actually say will be one thing; what is voiced in court (as in recollected by police officers) might be quite different. If I ever have to shoot someone in self defense I fully expect to be arrested and not to be able to talk myself out of that.

Wasn't Ayoob a cop?

 

IMO that's too much information. In the absence of concrete legal advice I'd be inclined to say "he broke in, he threatened me, I shot him. By the way officer, this discussion is being recorded. I want to cooperate but I cannot provide any more information until I speak with my attorney." You' and your attorney will have plenty of time to concoct some BS about the guy lunging at you or pulling a knife, or about the actual circumstances if he was attacking you. Barring absolutely bizarre circumstances I can't see anything bad happening. And there'll be no suspicion that you committed murder. 

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Newtonian, on 20 Feb 2016 - 3:06 PM, said:

Very good article. I have been a huge advocate of "Don't Talk to the Police" for many years. However, the writer and the law professor in the video ignore a very important point.

 

The cop shows up, sees you looking sheepish, sees a guy writhing on the floor or dead. How is the officer to have any inkling that the shooting was lawful?

 

"Did you fire the shot?"

"I invoke my 5th Amendment rights."

 

"Did he break in?" 

"I invoke my 5th Amendment rights."

 

"Did you know him?"

"I invoke my 5th Amendment rights."

 

 

A cop in a bad mood that day could very well assume the situation was fishy and arrest you. At that point you can add $5000 to your legal bill if -- if -- you can get your lawyer up at 1:30 in the morning. Plus you'll need to post bail, which for a homicide will be on the brisk side.

 

There must be something you can say that's like a get out of jail free card. "I was awakened about 15 minutes ago by the sound of an intruder (someone breaking in , walking around downstairs, opening the cabinets). He attacked me. I shot him with my legal handgun. I henceforth invoke my 5th Amendment rights. Any further communication between us must involve my attorney."

 

I don't see anything in that statement that could possibly be used against anyone but the perp. And it immediately gets the cops off your back. 

 

This is the kind of info that all pro-2A organizations should post and distribute. Why don't they?

 

Any lawyers feel like chiming in?

 

 

 

 

You have ZERO chance of avoiding a legal situation if you shoot someone in most states in the US.

 

In NJ - no matter what the circumstance, you will likely be arrested and zealously prosecuted.  I'm a big believer in NEVER EVER giving the police ANYTHING they can use against you.  Speak through your lawyer only.   

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If the cop does not suspect that the 911 caller, the person standing amidst the corpus delecti (not to mention right by the corpse), did not kill the guy lying on the floor, then he needs to go back to the academy. Is that sufficient reason to arrest you in the absence of any explanation? I don't know.

 

61 year old white home owner and two 20 year old black guys, 2am: pretty obvious. 61 year old white home owner, 50 year old white heroin fiend, 9:30 pm, nobody else home, I dunno. Was he over for a card game? Was he a gay guy you met on Facebook? I absolutely have no clue what would go through an officer's mind in that situation. No idea if they would delay a few days or arrest on the spot.

 

Under no circumstances would I provide any details except the basic, obvious facts. No description of a pitched battle involving deadly weapons, where I stood and in what direction he was facing, whether he called me a guinea bastit. Just enough to stay in my home that night and at least delay my entry into the sewer that is the US criminal justice system.

 

Totally and completely different situation than if the cops show up at your door with a warrant to arrest you for robbing the 1st National Bank, Chicago, or for killing somebody in Vineland three years ago. Then you just STFU. Obvious. "I was never in Vineland" can't possibly help you. Let your lawyer tell it to the judge. Totally different situation.

Don't worry, you are certainly smarter than all the people that trained me, and continue to do so.

 

Through no experience nor study whatsoever, your simple ego and intellect will always lead you to the proper course of action by default.

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Don't worry, you are certainly smarter than all the people that trained me, and continue to do so.

 

Through no experience nor study whatsoever, your simple ego and intellect will always lead you to the proper course of action by default.

Hey gimme a break. I admit when I don't know nothing about nothing, and this is one of those situations. 

 

I'm just looking to stay out of the system for a few days. I don't want to get arrested, at least not before I speak with a lawyer. 

 

If what you say is true then ok. I would really like to hear a lawyer say it though. 

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When I took my TX CHL course, we were advised to request an ambulance if you are even remotely agitated. "It's not unusual for blood pressure to spike or for a person to go into shock if they've been the victim of a violent attack requiring them to defend themselves".

 

The next question was "where would you rather answer questions from...a hospital bed or an interrogation room?"

 

And have your attorney meet you at the hospital.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Well, I'm lucky in this scenario. 

I live in Colorado and we have what is referred to as a "make my day" law. 

Someone breaks into my house it is presumed that he means to do me harm and I can respond in any way I think is proper including shooting him 5 times (I'd probably only shoot him 3, but--).  

AND, Yes, I'd shoot the SOB at least twice!  

Sarge   

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An excellent point, which is one Massad Ayoob notes in his approach to after-shooting interaction with the police. I think put generically the strategy would be state any relevant facts, but don't offer any opinions or reasoning. Example:

 

1. I am the victim. I will sign a complaint.

2. The person on the floor is the assailant.

3. The knife he was holding is under my couch. (Or any other similar statement of hard evidence, including any witnesses you may know of.)

4. He broke through the door to my house, as you can see.

5. You will have my full cooperation, but I now exercise my 5th amendment right to remain silent and I will not answer any further questions until I have consulted with my attorney.

6. Repeat number 5 as often as necessary.

 

I would not recount how things went down, what I was thinking, how I felt etc. as those are the major items open for misinterpretation. What you actually say will be one thing; what is voiced in court (as in recollected by police officers) might be quite different. If I ever have to shoot someone in self defense I fully expect to be arrested and not to be able to talk myself out of that.

I think #s 1-4 are saying too much. I would keep it generic: He broke in and the sounds woke me up; I shot him. Leave the details for later.

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