Jump to content
Maksim

Apple fighting the Government on creating a backdoor for phones.

Recommended Posts

I don't think Apple should do it.

 

I fear the continued undermining of our rights much more than I fear any terrorists. Yeah, occasionally the choices you need to make to ensure freedom reigns can suck, but it isn't worth squandering to defend against savages. If we do, they win....

 

On the other hand, killing more savages is totally acceptable.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think Apple should do it.

 

I fear the continued undermining of our rights much more than I fear any terrorists. Yeah, occasionally the choices you need to make to ensure freedom reigns can suck, but it isn't worth squandering to defend against savages. If we do, they win....

 

On the other hand, killing more savages is totally acceptable.

X's 2 on every point!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://on.wsj.com/1Mx4oSx

How do people feel about Apple's "uncrackable" product now that the Government has cracked the iPhone?

 

This article does not say much about how.  I had read previous pieces that suggested something like virtualizing the phone and do the hacking on virtual copies.  Either way, I am sure it required serious resources, but I am surprised they cracked it so fast--I think I heard about this just a week or two ago.

 

How should Apple spins this (no comment yet)?  Yes our products can be breached after all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone who ever thought that any electronic device could not be hacked is living in a dream world. I'm not at all surprised that the FBI found someone to break into the iphone, or any other device for that matter, no matter how good apple's programmers are, there is always someone better somewhere. Even the best safes can be cracked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It wasn't about cracking 1 phone. I'm all for them getting into that one. But they wanted every phone.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Any phone, tablet, computer, etc... can be hacked, and the scary thing is that you don't necessarily need US government financial resources to do it. Any tech savvy teenager in their garage can theoretically do it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am in no way condoning it, I vehemently oppose it. I think invasion of privacy is a crime of the highest degree. But facts are facts, and by denying them we only fool ourselves.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone who ever thought that any electronic device could not be hacked is living in a dream world. I'm not at all surprised that the FBI found someone to break into the iphone, or any other device for that matter, no matter how good apple's programmers are, there is always someone better somewhere. Even the best safes can be cracked.

Agreed, but Apple has implied that this is virtually impossible with the latest iPhone.  If that were the case, I would have expected it to take a bit longer to crack it.  Many have taken Apple at its word: Your data are secure.  And a lot of people believed that.  This puts us on notice--if you believed it in the first place--that nothing is really secure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It wasn't about cracking 1 phone. I'm all for them getting into that one. But they wanted every phone.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If they can get into this phone, they can get into every phone.  And the hackers that helped the FBI can also get into every phone...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed, but Apple has implied that this is virtually impossible with the latest iPhone.  If that were the case, I would have expected it to take a bit longer to crack it.  Many have taken Apple at its word: Your data are secure.  And a lot of people believed that.  This puts us on notice--if you believed it in the first place--that nothing is really secure.

That's why I don't like apple and don't have an iphone, honestly if it wasn't for my wife and kids I wouldn't have a single apple product in my house. It's not because I think their products are inferior, quite the contrary, their products are top notch. it's because I don't like their business practices, and as you mentioned, their grand claims of total security when most people know that's a flat out lie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it was a different operation system they would have been in that phone that day

 

I've been following this case and the man to listen to is John mcafee. This wasn't about 1 phone at all.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mcafee-ill-decrypt-san-bernardino-phone-for-free-2016-2

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the sound of things, they probably de-encapsulated the flash chip. That requires removing the chip and removing all material until you get to the actual bits on the chip. Then you use an election microscope to read them and then recreate the actual data. I could be wrong, but it sounds that way from the news reports.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it was a different operation system they would have been in that phone that day

 

I've been following this case and the man to listen to is John mcafee. This wasn't about 1 phone at all.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mcafee-ill-decrypt-san-bernardino-phone-for-free-2016-2

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

interesting article. and they never took him up on it, did they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any phone, tablet, computer, etc... can be hacked, and the scary thing is that you don't necessarily need US government financial resources to do it. Any tech savvy teenager in their garage can theoretically do it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am in no way condoning it, I vehemently oppose it. I think invasion of privacy is a crime of the highest degree. But facts are facts, and by denying them we only fool ourselves.   

 

That's over stating the abilities of tech savvy teenagers Marty.  It may be true for a many devices, older phones, desktop PCs and macs.  Certain weakly encrypted data in motion. 

 

In this case, they built a fail safe that can't bypassed outside of extraordinary means...  see AdamM's post as an example of one theoretical methodology.  If you know quite literally -everything- about the device, you have a shot.  But only if you have resources, for example, that could look at the state of the semiconductors in the micro-circuitry. Assuming that's even reliable and possible.

 

Imagine a system where you have material in a stone cave that is enveloped in a flammable gas. And any entry will introduce an oxidizer and incinerate everything.  There's only one way to disable it and it's owner knows how but there are tens of thousands of options for attempting it and all but the correct one will cause ignition.

 

Yes... there's a way in, but you only get one try.   Difficult problem to solve.  Some problems such as these have no solutions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's over stating the abilities of tech savvy teenagers Marty.  It may be true for a many devices, older phones, desktop PCs and macs.  Certain weakly encrypted data in motion. 

 

If you look at it historically these teenagers starting in their garages become silicon valley billionaires by the time they can legally drink. So maybe not any tech savvy teenager but some can.

 

My point is that nobody can expect 100% privacy when dealing with any electronic device no matter what the company claims. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you look at it historically these teenagers starting in their garages become silicon valley billionaires by the time they can legally drink. So maybe not any tech savvy teenager but some can.

 

My point is that nobody can expect 100% privacy when dealing with any electronic device no matter what the company claims. 

 

Right, nothing is 100% secure.  We certainly shouldn't ever bet the farm that it is, or that our data will remain private.  Getting in the way the gov't is trying likely to be nearly impossible.

 

But... when we are -using- these devices... that's a different ball game.  Motorola makes connections back to it's servers on all Droid devices.  I've seen this first hand.  Then you get into all the Apps people load... forget about it....  They stream everything they can get a person to blindly agree to in the EULA.  Most of the mindless games are data collection tools that all people to entertain themselves with bright shiny objects as they upload your life to their DBs.  i'm sure Apple Apps do the same.

 

I'm more concerned about what my device is doing when I drive around with it and get calls, text msgs, etc.  than I am with some gov't agency looking to crack it.  Not that I do anything with my phone that would significantly affect me should some company like Disney or Home Depot be perusing it.  But it does amaze me that so many people are oblivious or just don't care about their privacy.

 

The devices are not ours.  Without some tech skills, there's no way to control what the device is doing.  And even then, what you can control is limited. Especially on newer devices... and we PAY for this stuff..... unreal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, nothing is 100% secure.  We certainly shouldn't ever bet the farm that it is, or that our data will remain private.  Getting in the way the gov't is trying likely to be nearly impossible.

 

But... when we are -using- these devices... that's a different ball game.  Motorola makes connections back to it's servers on all Droid devices.  I've seen this first hand.  Then you get into all the Apps people load... forget about it....  They stream everything they can get a person to blindly agree to in the EULA.  Most of the mindless games are data collection tools that all people to entertain themselves with bright shiny objects as they upload your life to their DBs.  i'm sure Apple Apps do the same.

 

I'm more concerned about what my device is doing when I drive around with it and get calls, text msgs, etc.  than I am with some gov't agency looking to crack it.  Not that I do anything with my phone that would significantly affect me should some company like Disney or Home Depot be perusing it.  But it does amaze me that so many people are oblivious or just don't care about their privacy.

 

The devices are not ours.  Without some tech skills, there's no way to control what the device is doing.  And even then, what you can control is limited. Especially on newer devices... and we PAY for this stuff..... unreal.

And most of the people who complain about NSA and govt surveillance, etc. are more than happy to give up all their privacy by downloading and using apps--without a clue of what the EULA might say, or how the company will be using the data they harvest from their usage and location-based data.

Most of the people have no clue what they are really paying for free or low-cost apps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And I could be wrong, but I just read that immediately after unlocking it someone spilled water on it and the phone is now useless? Is this for real?

If that is so, then it certainly backs up the de-encapsulation theory. Once you do that to the chip, it gets destroyed. By cutting the chip open, it makes it useless, however you are able to recreate the data that was on the chip, bit by bit.

 

Kevin125, yes de-encapsulation is certainly a viable method. I have seen this first hand and know it works! It certainly would cost some $$$ to do this, but I'm sure they have no problem spending our tax dollars on that project.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...