CCW Training Debate

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Dan, stop making sense.

I'm sure that AK believes cops are the only ones allowed to shoot unarmed people. because.. ya know, training.

[fishnut 2,358]

^thank you I now have coffie all over my phone after reading your post. Lmao

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Funny I got my Florida CCW, and I had to do live fire/safety training to obtain it. As does every Florida resident that wants a permit. So your buddy is either lying about having a permit to carry, or you've just fabricated a bullshit story that we all saw right through... Go troll someplace else please.

 

BTW... gun's don't go into sheaths, blades do. Guns go into holsters. "Unholstered" would be the proper term. Just an FYI for the next time you attempt to troll a fourm, full of responsible gun owners.

 

Also the 3954 has such a heavy trigger, you pretty much have to stand on it to fire it. Pretty unlikely even without a holster, it could go off in a glove box without human assistance.

 

Travon should have thought about his decision, before he decided to bring a can of Arizona fruit punch, and a bag of Skittles to a gun fight he instigated...

POINT!

SET!

MATCH!

 

Dear Slayer you just earned yourself a Beer in Rosey's Famous Texas-style Cantina.  Where Trolls that can't use correct gun language are left pukin' their guts out next to the garbage dumpsters and grease cans in the back alley (where their ilk belong)!!  Seriously Dude, I really wanna shake your hand!

 

Now if ya'll excuse poor lil' ol' me, I've got a Non-Profit 501©3 Second Amendment Group to be the Vice President of, so no more time to waste on Mr Perth Amboy (or is it Static island?) wanna be Kop!

[DeerSlayer 241]

POINT!

SET!

MATCH!

 

Dear Slayer you just earned yourself a Beer in Rosey's Famous Texas-style Cantina. Where Trolls that can't use correct gun language are left pukin' their guts out next to the garbage dumpsters and grease cans in the back alley (where their ilk belong)!! Seriously Dude, I really wanna shake your hand!

 

Now if ya'll excuse poor lil' ol' me, I've got a Non-Profit 501©3 Second Amendment Group to be the Vice President of, so no more time to waste on Mr Perth Amboy (or is it Static island?) wanna be Kop!

Cool I like beer! Lol...

[PD2K 115]

Chainsaws! We need to pull them off the shelves now! Like yesterday now!

 

I can tell you this because I'm an expert with chainsaws. I had 100's of them, maybe 1000's. More than any one else here.

People can hurt them selves and more likely hurt others!

If it jus would save 1 life!

A guy used 1 in Texas.

 

I know you all here are uneducated.

Do we really have a right to cut wood people are massacring each other?⛑⏳⛏✂

 

Hahaha!!!

[average joe 5]

I thought this was a PRO GUN forum.  ?     Is this guy an anti or just jealous of his friend ?

 

I went to Florida and got my CCW a few years ago,  I went through 4 hours of classroom, and 1 hour of live fire instruction.   Sounds like firearms training to me.... Our instructors were extremely diligent, and anybody that needed extra attention go it.  Everybody that left there was fully qualified to CCW, or the instructors would not put their name on the certificate.

[SmittyMHS 603]

I thought this was a PRO GUN forum.  ?     Is this guy an anti or just jealous of his friend ?

 

I went to Florida and got my CCW a few years ago,  I went through 4 hours of classroom, and 1 hour of live fire instruction.   Sounds like firearms training to me.... Our instructors were extremely diligent, and anybody that needed extra attention go it.  Everybody that left there was fully qualified to CCW, or the instructors would not put their name on the certificate.

 Confusing the issue with facts isn't gonna help ya know. 

[Maksim 1,504]

I am now frightened to leave my home. So many gun wielding untrained wannabes waiting to get the chance to shoot someone for giving them a dirty look. OMG

 

Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk.

 

Paul, 

 

I know right?  I am scheduled to speak at a conference in Scottsdale next week... I may skip... after all... a bunch of unlicensed, untrained rich white people carrying guns all willy nilly.

[Arthur Kill 0]

Ois vai.... now I know why people call for your head. =)  But don't worry there is hope.

 

Why do you saying Florida's requirements are lax?  Then what would you say for AZ, AK or Vermont? with constitutional carry?  Or what about PA? where you need a piece of paper?

 

Florida is actually fairly strict on CCW and carry laws.

 

the problem with your arguement is that you provide no solutions.

 

Lastly, concealed carry and personal defense is a RIGHT... it is not a privilege like driving. The moment you start restricting carry, you turn into NJ.

 

I don't know about you... but I feel safer in a cowboy state like AZ and Texas than I do in NJ.

 

Even though I agree, that people SHOULD have plenty of CCW training, I am ABSOLUTELY AGAINST REQUIREMENTS. 

 

Contradictio in terminis; you "agree, that people SHOULD have plenty of CCW training" but you are "ABSOLUTELY AGAINST REQUIREMENTS" for that training.  The translation is, "yeah, I'd sound dumb standing against the notion of proper training for people with loaded guns but I don't wanna have to train."

 

Should I call you Mr. Flip-flop...or Mr. Self-Entitled?

 

Again, your "rights" end where they start to infringe upon mine.  Defend yourself all you want but you shouldn't be legally allowed to use a gun to do it in public unless you're properly trained. 

 

I've stated over-and-over again my "solution."  I'll type a synopsis of it again since you haven't been following along -- a repeal and restructing of all existing gun laws -- adequate firearms training to the same state/federal standards required for LE officers, training includes use-of-force, safety, retention etc, etc., training also includes facets that determine the mental/emotional fitness of the trainee.  To stay active, In-service training twice a year, qualifications (minimally) twice a year.  User pays, no cost to the government.

 

Crazy, right?

[njpilot 671]

 

Again, your "rights" end where they start to infringe on mine.

A person carrying a firearm DOES NOT infringe on your "rights"!!!

 

Are you that thick to not understand that? Or are you really just a troll?

 

Sure there's a possibility you or someone else could be injured or killed by a CCW by accident, but how many times has that happened by "your" highly trained LEO standard? Too many to count.

 

I love it when you liberal anti-gun people compare gun ownership to yelling fire in a crowded movie theater. You know what, anyone can yell fire in a crowded movie theater, there are consequences for doing so after the fact.

 

Would you suggest taping the mouths of every "non-trained" person who walks into a theater because by your warped logic, they could infringe on your "rights" if they would yell fire and you were trampled?

 

Just the same, if a person carrying a firearm, screws up and shoots a bystander, they could face consequences for their actions just the same.

[Arthur Kill 0]

A person carrying a firearm DOES NOT infringe on your "rights"!!!

 

Are you that thick to not understand that? Or are you really just a troll?

 

Sure there's a possibility you or someone else could be injured or killed by a CCW by accident...

 

Glad you cleared that up...for yourself.

 

 

...but how many times has that happened by "your" highly trained LEO standard? Too many to count.

 

 

 

 

Again, accidental and misguided police shootings happen, no one is denying that fact.  Clearly, American society as a whole, accepts the risk that mistakes happen as a result of having an armed police force.  So, by the constant criticism of the police that is presented by you and on this board ad nauseum, are we advocating a “survival of the fittest” free-for-all society and where there is no law enforcement at all?  Or, are we suggesting that our police not be armed?  

 

Which is it?   

 

And if accidental police shootings are so bothersome to us that we have to mention them every chance we get, where is the rationale in having the potential for more accidental killing by adding untrained citizens to the mix?

 

This makes no sense and does not forward your "cause" in the least.

 

 

I love it when you liberal anti-gun people compare gun ownership to yelling fire in a crowded movie theater. You know what, anyone can yell fire in a crowded movie theater, there are consequences for doing so after the fact.

 

 

 

Your mixing up your amendments.  "Shouting fire in a crowded theater" is an example often used in regards to Free Speech, the First Amendment, to show how some speech is not protected and how all speech is not free.

 

And again, I'm not a liberal nor am I anti-gun -- I'll let you know if that changes.  Your constant repeated name calling does nothing but perfectly display your ignorance and inability to comprehend a basic idea -- like the one that flying an American flag upsidedown is not only desceration but anti-American.  And by doing so, you're giving aid and comfort to our enemies.  Are you ISIS?  When does your frustration reach critical mass?

 

****Michael McLendon was a CCW holder****

 

Officials: Ala. shooter depressed over failures

Associated Press

 

GENEVA, Ala. - The man blamed for the worst massacre in Alabama history was depressed and frustrated with his inability to become a Marine or a police officer, officials said Thursday.

 

Michael McLendon, 28, killed five family members and five others before fatally shooting himself Tuesday.

 

McLendon had told a confidant in the days before the shootings that he was depressed and unfulfilled, according to Barry Tucker of the Alabama Bureau of Investigation.

 

"He talked about his depression, his lack of fulfillment in his jobs, in becoming a police officer and in becoming a Marine," Tucker said.

 

McLendon had been a Marine briefly but was discharged for falsifying information. Officials said he was released from the police academy because he couldn't meet some of the physical requirements.

 

Authorities also said McLendon admitted in a two-page, handwritten letter that he had killed his mother and planned to commit suicide. He mentioned a family dispute over a legal issue but didn't reveal plans to kill anyone else. Investigators said they found the letter in a mailbox. They would not disclose its intended recipient.

 

After killing his mother at the house they shared in Kinson, McLendon started a rampage that ended with him taking his own life following a shootout with police in nearby Geneva at Reliable Products, the metals plant where he worked until 2003.

 

In between, he gunned down three relatives and the wife and 18-month-old daughter of a local sheriff's deputy on a front porch in Samson. He turned his gun next door and killed his 74-year-old grandmother and sent panicked bystanders fleeing and ducking behind cars.

 

McLendon then drove off, spraying bullets through the town, killing three more bystanders.

 

Jerry Conner, chief of the Alabama Bureau of Investigation, said people who spoke to McLendon in the days before the shooting knew he was depressed but did not feel that would prompt violence, even in a man who loved weapons and spent his free time at the local firing range.

 

"This gives a window into what happened. But this sort of violence and rage, it just boggles the mind," he said.

 

County District Attorney Gary McAliley said the only complaint neighbors had about McLendon was that he was constantly behind his home firing a weapon and they were worried about their cows.

 

"I don't think anybody could have anticipated this by looking at him and interacting with him," McAliley said. "But certainly he had a volcano inside of him."

 

[n4p226r 105]

Arthur,

 

do you ever leave the state of NJ?   If so, how has your rights been infringed upon by CCW members when you went to all these other places?

[remixer 1,645]

Arthur,

 

do you ever leave the state of NJ?   If so, how has your rights been infringed upon by CCW members when you went to all these other places?

 Valid Point...

[Maksim 1,504]

Contradictio in terminis; you "agree, that people SHOULD have plenty of CCW training" but you are "ABSOLUTELY AGAINST REQUIREMENTS" for that training.  The translation is, "yeah, I'd sound dumb standing against the notion of proper training for people with loaded guns but I don't wanna have to train."

 

Should I call you Mr. Flip-flop...or Mr. Self-Entitled?

 

Again, your "rights" end where they start to infringe upon mine.  Defend yourself all you want but you shouldn't be legally allowed to use a gun to do it in public unless you're properly trained. 

 

I've stated over-and-over again my "solution."  I'll type a synopsis of it again since you haven't been following along -- a repeal and restructing of all existing gun laws -- adequate firearms training to the same state/federal standards required for LE officers, training includes use-of-force, safety, retention etc, etc., training also includes facets that determine the mental/emotional fitness of the trainee.  To stay active, In-service training twice a year, qualifications (minimally) twice a year.  User pays, no cost to the government.

 

Crazy, right?

 

How is that Mr. Flip Flop?  Please do read with a level head.

 

I personally believe that people should go out and get training, however I am against making it a requirement as it is a slipper slope...

 

Do I believe people should get training before opening their mouths?  Limits on free speech.

 

Should people get licensed and trained before practicing a religion?  

 

Or Women or minorities, or anyone else for that matter be required to have training before they go vote?  (after all, you vote affects me too, right?)

 

 

Florida as you love to point out, also has some of the most stringent gun laws for people showboating... 7 years mandatory if you just draw a gun on someone.

 

There is your John Locke's "You rights end, where my nose begins".

 

Let people carry or do whatever they want.... if they want to shoot their own cows on their own property, let them.  If they endanger others...they will be responsible for that.

 

Or are you for a nanny solution too that we should run everything by the government?

 

As I said in the beginning, I have absolutely ZERO issues with anyone of any philosophy coming to the forum.... but I do require them to be able to have an intellectual conversation. 

 

If this is not the place for you, will gladly protect you from yourself and delete your account and block your access to the forum.

[remixer 1,645]

At the same time i think we should be required to take Civics and Constitutional Classes before being allowed to vote.

 

Before voting is it not a good idea for people to understand what they are voting for?

[Zeke 5,504]

Valid Point...

Truth is a right can only be infringed when a crime has been enacted upon you. If a person where to be shot, rights infringed. Not shot, no infringement.

 

I'm not sure about the right to fear? Fear seems to be the qualifier for most of the agenda . Fear of the "what if"

[Zeke 5,504]

I'm not gonna lie" protect you from yourself " is classic!

I'm using that one somewhere somehow today!

[JackDaWack 2,895]

lol a story about a CCW holder and an incident that had literally nothing to do with CCW.

 

Does this guy really think we're "frustrated"? These threads have become my new daily humor.

[Maksim 1,504]

lol a story about a CCW holder and an incident that had literally nothing to do with CCW.

 

I wanted to point that out... but it would not be fair.

 

Or that it is a story about a guy doing something illegal, anyway.... and nothing else makes a difference.

 

I bet he was a democrat too? As most of the mass shooters and terrorists were?

[SmittyMHS 603]

At the same time i think we should be required to take Civics and Constitutional Classes before being allowed to vote.

 

Before voting is it not a good idea for people to understand what they are voting for?

You can't do that! What would all the 47%ers do? There would be no more liberals in office.....Oh, wait a minute!

[n4p226r 105]

. but I do require them to be able to have an intellectual conversation. 

 

 

crap.. most of us in this thread are definitely getting banned

[remixer 1,645]

crap.. most of us in this thread are definitely getting banned

I sorta feel safe

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I think maybe I may need to invite a few more posters here to Rosey's Cantina, lol!  All this Troll-flushing down the toilet bowl is gettin' FUN!

[fishnut 2,358]

I think maybe I may need to invite a few more posters here to Rosey's Cantina, lol! All this Toll-flushing down the toilet bowl is gettin' FUN!

if ya do make sure all your guns are in their sheaths and your knives are in their holsters. Think of all the baby's you will save

[Zeke 5,504]

crap.. most of us in this thread are definitely getting banned

I am a meat Popsicle!

[Zeke 5,504]

if ya do make sure all your guns are in their sheaths and your knives are in their holsters. Think of all the baby's you will save

Could I scabbard mine?

[fishnut 2,358]

Only if you have scabies

[njpilot 671]

 

Glad you cleared that up...for yourself.

 

 

 

 

Again, accidental and misguided police shootings happen, no one is denying that fact.  Clearly, American society as a whole, accepts the risk that mistakes happen as a result of having an armed police force.  So, by the constant criticism of the police that is presented by you and on this board ad nauseum, are we advocating a “survival of the fittest” free-for-all society and where there is no law enforcement at all?  Or, are we suggesting that our police not be armed?  

 

Which is it?   

 

And if accidental police shootings are so bothersome to us that we have to mention them every chance we get, where is the rationale in having the potential for more accidental killing by adding untrained citizens to the mix?

 

This makes no sense and does not forward your "cause" in the least.

 

 

 

Your mixing up your amendments.  "Shouting fire in a crowded theater" is an example often used in regards to Free Speech, the First Amendment, to show how some speech is not protected and how all speech is not free.

 

And again, I'm not a liberal nor am I anti-gun -- I'll let you know if that changes.  Your constant repeated name calling does nothing but perfectly display your ignorance and inability to comprehend a basic idea -- like the one that flying an American flag upsidedown is not only desceration but anti-American.  And by doing so, you're giving aid and comfort to our enemies.  Are you ISIS?  When does your frustration reach critical mass?

 

 

 

 

Cleared what up? That you don't understand how protection of Rights work? Yes, I guess I cleared that up for all of us that you don't understand or care about the Rights of others.

 

Equating the Right of people to "bear" firearms to the privilege of driving a car, you would say that people driving a 3-4000 lb vehicle next to you on the highway at 65 mph shouldn't be allowed without extensive training including qualifying twice a year. You stand a much greater chance of injury or death from an inattentive driver hitting you than you do from a CCW, but you aren't calling for the revoking of privileges of people who don't meet such equivalent training requirements, as you do for CCW holders.

 

No mixing up Amendments, just pointing out the usual comparison anti-gunners like to make it saying that since restrictions can be put on the 1st, they can be put on the 2nd. Not surprising at all that you don't understand the comparison.

 

You can say you aren't liberal or anti-gun all you want. I can say I'm the Pope, it doesn't make it true. Others here as well as myself have insinuated that you are liberal and anti-gun by the totality of your statements. You know, the ones that sound like they came from Brady, Everytown and Mom's Demand. 

 

If it looks like a duck  and sounds like a duck.....

 

As far as my avatar, like many other things here, I guess you don't understand the meaning of it. Has nothing to do with disrespect or desecration, nor with giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Am I ISIS? That's what you get from my avatar. First, you should probably do some research so you don't look so foolish making such stupid statements.

 

No real frustration here jack. I have a distant relative who is very liberal and has been committed for mental illness more than once. I know the signs when I see them. Nothing anyone here can say to change your mind on anything because you believe you know everything. Suggestion: get yourself some help and if you really do have a badge and a gun, I feel sorry for the people you are supposed to be serving, not ruling over.

[302w 83]

Could I scabbard mine?

If it's a shotgun.

[MartyZ 692]

Contradictio in terminis; you "agree, that people SHOULD have plenty of CCW training" but you are "ABSOLUTELY AGAINST REQUIREMENTS" for that training.  The translation is, "yeah, I'd sound dumb standing against the notion of proper training for people with loaded guns but I don't wanna have to train."

 

Should I call you Mr. Flip-flop...or Mr. Self-Entitled?

 

Again, your "rights" end where they start to infringe upon mine.  Defend yourself all you want but you shouldn't be legally allowed to use a gun to do it in public unless you're properly trained. 

 

I've stated over-and-over again my "solution."  I'll type a synopsis of it again since you haven't been following along -- a repeal and restructing of all existing gun laws -- adequate firearms training to the same state/federal standards required for LE officers, training includes use-of-force, safety, retention etc, etc., training also includes facets that determine the mental/emotional fitness of the trainee.  To stay active, In-service training twice a year, qualifications (minimally) twice a year.  User pays, no cost to the government.

 

Crazy, right?

Your 1st amendment rights are NOW infringing on the everyone here. Does that mean that you need training to be able to speak???