weekend_junkie 129 Posted March 3, 2016 I recently received my Texas CHL and plan to carry when I am in Pennsylvania. Thanks to the CHL course, I'm now familiar with TX laws and restrictions. I've searched PA state police info and cannot find similar descriptions of any restrictions. What's a good source to learn & confirm this type of info? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fishnut 2,358 Posted March 3, 2016 Handgunlaws.us Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beachwhistle 28 Posted March 3, 2016 PAFOA.ORG 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted March 3, 2016 This is very much still a gray area. The PA AG - Kathleen Kane (under investigation / lost her law license) - rescinded all reciprocity agreements. The purpose was to prevent PA residents who were denied a PA LTCF, from carrying using a reciprocal state's license. Quite common in Philly as the Philly PD usually over-reached on their authority. So there are those that say it only applies to PA residents and those that say it applies across the board. I don't really want to be the one that defines that via a court case. If Kane resigns or is eventually voted out of office by the legislature (it is an elected position so they can't just fire her - fortunately she has already said that she won't run for re-election) then the reciprocity issue can be revisited by the new AG. You can open carry in PA - but not in Philly without a LTCF (or previously, a reciprocal permit). You cannot get into a car open carrying, as they consider that concealed. However, you can carry in a car provided that you have a carry permit from any state, regardless of reciprocal agreements - this would be the only thing your TX license would be good for at this point. Adios, Pizza Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njpilot 671 Posted March 3, 2016 This is very much still a gray area. The PA AG - Kathleen Kane (under investigation / lost her law license) - rescinded all reciprocity agreements. The purpose was to prevent PA residents who were denied a PA LTCF, from carrying using a reciprocal state's license. Quite common in Philly as the Philly PD usually over-reached on their authority. So there are those that say it only applies to PA residents and those that say it applies across the board. I don't really want to be the one that defines that via a court case. If Kane resigns or is eventually voted out of office by the legislature (it is an elected position so they can't just fire her - fortunately she has already said that she won't run for re-election) then the reciprocity issue can be revisited by the new AG. You can open carry in PA - but not in Philly without a LTCF (or previously, a reciprocal permit). You cannot get into a car open carrying, as they consider that concealed. However, you can carry in a car provided that you have a carry permit from any state, regardless of reciprocal agreements - this would be the only thing your TX license would be good for at this point. Adios, Pizza Bob Just a clarification, I believe any rescinded reciprocity was for non-resident permits. Also, I thought last we heard, TX and NH were still good due to the requirements to get them Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted March 3, 2016 Just a clarification, I believe any rescinded reciprocity was for non-resident permits. Also, I thought last we heard, TX and NH were still good due to the requirements to get them If you go to the PA AG website and find the page for firearm reciprocity agreements, you will find that it is blank. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrumpyOldRetiree 38 Posted March 3, 2016 If you go to the PA AG website and find the page for firearm reciprocity agreements, you will find that it is blank. Bob, Maybe I read it wrong but I just went to PA AG website (https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/Media_and_Resources/Firearm_Reciprocity_Agreements/) and it shows a reciprocity agreement is in place between TX and PA for any TX Concealed Carry License. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maintenanceguy 510 Posted March 3, 2016 TX is the only state left that NJ residents can get to concealed carry in PA. There are other states who's non-resident permits are recognized but those states won't issue to NJ residents unless we first have a carry permit from our home state. The PA AG was in the process of re-negotiating all of the reciprocity agreements when she found herself in legal trouble. She might have gotten to TX but never did. Maybe TX was left alone because you have to actually travel to TX to get one and not many people will bother. The agreement made in 2005 is still the one listed on the PA AG's website. The memorandum of agreement can be read here: https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/MainSite/Content/Criminal/FirearmsReciprocity/Signed_Texas_Agreement.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted March 3, 2016 Bob, Maybe I read it wrong but I just went to PA AG website (https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/Media_and_Resources/Firearm_Reciprocity_Agreements/) and it shows a reciprocity agreement is in place between TX and PA for any TX Concealed Carry License. Interesting. It appears the PA/TX agreement recognizes the respective licenses without regard to the holders state of residency. If you look at the PA/FL agreement, for example, it specifically states that PA will honor FL licenses held by residents of FL - which precludes all non-resident holders, even though FL has only one license (there is no such thing as a resident/non-resident license). Haven't been doing my homework and relying too much on the MSM for my info. Sorry. I'd still tread carefully. Adios, Pizza Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekend_junkie 129 Posted March 4, 2016 Now that we got that cleared up, I'm still trying to figure out what restrictions there are. Can I carry on a boat? Can I carry when I vote? Can I carry on a box? Can I carry with a fox? Handgunlaws.usThanks. This is super helpful and lays out everything very clearly.http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Golf battery 1,223 Posted March 4, 2016 Yes Bob. Thats why i keep blabbbing about my texas trip. Want to go with me. I got it all figured out. Its gonna cost me about 450. Class range ammo rental ears and eyes plane hotel car rental fingerprints photos the online ltc texas forms. Plus at the range im doing it at. They charge an extra 25$ at the end of the course if you want the utah ccw also. You in ? Oh if you dont have a dd214 its about 115$ more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rifleman1 32 Posted March 4, 2016 This is very much still a gray area. The PA AG - Kathleen Kane (under investigation / lost her law license) - rescinded all reciprocity agreements. The purpose was to prevent PA residents who were denied a PA LTCF, from carrying using a reciprocal state's license. Quite common in Philly as the Philly PD usually over-reached on their authority. So there are those that say it only applies to PA residents and those that say it applies across the board. I don't really want to be the one that defines that via a court case. If Kane resigns or is eventually voted out of office by the legislature (it is an elected position so they can't just fire her - fortunately she has already said that she won't run for re-election) then the reciprocity issue can be revisited by the new AG. You can open carry in PA - but not in Philly without a LTCF (or previously, a reciprocal permit). You cannot get into a car open carrying, as they consider that concealed. However, you can carry in a car provided that you have a carry permit from any state, regardless of reciprocal agreements - this would be the only thing your TX license would be good for at this point. Adios, Pizza Bob It is good my NH permit still works in PA. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maintenanceguy 510 Posted March 4, 2016 What happened to the lawsuit against New Hampshire? NH changed their law so that you had to have a permit from your home state to get a NH non resident permit. ANJRPC sued them saying it was unfair to those of us who live in no-issue states. I never heard any outcome. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M1152 713 Posted March 4, 2016 It is good my NH permit still works in PA. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk .... only until you renew, that is unless you move What happened to the lawsuit against New Hampshire? NH changed their law so that you had to have a permit from your home state to get a NH non resident permit. ANJRPC sued them saying it was unfair to those of us who live in no-issue states. I never heard any outcome. I don't know about the lawsuit but I have the renewal app in front of me. NH sent me the renewal app which I assume is system generated and their SOP. It clearly states in the instructions what you must supply... ALL LICENSE APPLICANTS PLEASE NOTE: A non-resident pistol license will not be issued unless you supply: A copy of (front & back) of your valid concealed carry license issued by the state, county, or town in which you reside. I don't feel like typing the entire app but there it is in a nutshell. There is NO need to go any further on the app since I can’t satisfy item #1. My NH permit will expire at the end of the month so I’m done thanks again to NJ. Rifleman will be in the same boat when his expires unless he moves.. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted March 4, 2016 It is good my NH permit still works in PA. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Not so sure about that - but I've been wrong before The first covenant of the NH/PA reciprocity agreement states: The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania will recognize valid New Hampshire permits to carry concealed firearms by valid permit holders while said permit holders are present in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Which would seem to support your position as to your permit being valid in PA. However, the stated purpose... WHEREAS, the purpose of this Reciprocity Agreement is to extend reciprocal concealed firearm carry permit/license privileges to the citizens of the State of New Hampshire and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, ...would seem to contraindicate that as you are not a citizen of NH. Just playing devil's advocate, but I would hate to see someone get jammed-up because of semantics. Adios, Pizza Bob 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rifleman1 32 Posted March 6, 2016 Usual double talk in the agreement. I will be a PA resident before my NH permit expire. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
magnawing 5 Posted March 7, 2016 Oh if you dont have a dd214 its about 115$ more.For anyone wondering...this is because TX only charges $25 for a Veteran's LTC but the initial license for a non-veteran is $140. That's why my wife waited two months after I filed to submit her paperwork. This signature is AWESOME!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted March 13, 2016 This is very much still a gray area. The PA AG - Kathleen Kane (under investigation / lost her law license) - rescinded all reciprocity agreements. The purpose was to prevent PA residents who were denied a PA LTCF, from carrying using a reciprocal state's license. Quite common in Philly as the Philly PD usually over-reached on their authority. So there are those that say it only applies to PA residents and those that say it applies across the board. I don't really want to be the one that defines that via a court case. If Kane resigns or is eventually voted out of office by the legislature (it is an elected position so they can't just fire her - fortunately she has already said that she won't run for re-election) then the reciprocity issue can be revisited by the new AG. You can open carry in PA - but not in Philly without a LTCF (or previously, a reciprocal permit). You cannot get into a car open carrying, as they consider that concealed. However, you can carry in a car provided that you have a carry permit from any state, regardless of reciprocal agreements - this would be the only thing your TX license would be good for at this point. Adios, Pizza Bob Slow down there, cowpoke. You are generally reliable and well researched. Where the hell did you come up with all this bullshit? Open carrying in a car is considered concealed? Citation of law please. Rescinded all reciprocity agreements? Who are you and what did you do with Pizza Bob? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted March 13, 2016 Slow down there, cowpoke. You are generally reliable and well researched. Where the hell did you come up with all this bullshit? Open carrying in a car is considered concealed? Citation of law please. Rescinded all reciprocity agreements? Who are you and what did you do with Pizza Bob? If you would have read the entire thread, I noted my error about the TX permit. Secondly, if you are open carrying in PA without a LTCF you are not allowed to just get in a vehicle and drive away. The "considered concealed" is the reasoning behind that prohibition, not written into the law. You can, as I stated, transport with a permit from any state - whether there is or is not a reciprocal agreement in place. Adios, Pizza Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted March 13, 2016   If you would have read the entire thread, I noted my error about the TX permit. Secondly, if you are open carrying in PA without a LTCF you are not allowed to just get in a vehicle and drive away. The "considered concealed" is the reasoning behind that prohibition, not written into the law. You can, as I stated, transport with a permit from any state - whether there is or is not a reciprocal agreement in place. Pizza Bob It's not the reason. I believe you are thinking of Ohio or some other midwestern state where this is codified into law (I forget which state). It is true it is not in the law as I stated and you agreed. A 1930s legal review of the proposed NFA stated the reason for prohibition of firearms in cars was that a criminal leaving the scene of a crime could hide his weapon in the car to avoid police discovery. It had nothing to do with the consequences (real and imagined) of carrying a concealed firearm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekend_junkie 129 Posted March 14, 2016 Cowpoke. Ha.  It's not the reason. I believe you are thinking of Ohio or some other midwestern state where this is codified into law (I forget which state). It is true it is not in the law as I stated and you agreed. A 1930s legal review of the proposed NFA stated the reason for prohibition of firearms in cars was that a criminal leaving the scene of a crime could hide his weapon in the car to avoid police discovery. It had nothing to do with the consequences (real and imagined) of carrying a concealed firearm.Not sure how NFA factors in here, but I understood PA to consider open carry whilst in a car to be concealed and thus necessitating a concealed carry permit. I don't have a reference handy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekend_junkie 129 Posted March 14, 2016 Found a few things, but here's a concise recanting of the car matter. http://fox43.com/2013/06/07/what-you-need-to-know-about-open-carry-in-pennsylvania/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted March 14, 2016 Cowpoke. Ha. Not sure how NFA factors in here, but I understood PA to consider open carry whilst in a car to be concealed and thus necessitating a concealed carry permit. I don't have a reference handy. I am sorry, but you are mistaken. PA law has never considered a firearm in a car as "concealed" as far as I know. And only a fool is certain, but I am pretty damn sure about that and you should probably find positive contradictory information in this case. Like I said, I believe that is a law from one or more midwestern states. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekend_junkie 129 Posted March 14, 2016 I am sorry, but you are mistaken. PA law has never considered a firearm in a car as "concealed" as far as I know. And only a fool is certain, but I am pretty damn sure about that and you should probably find positive contradictory information in this case. Like I said, I believe that is a law from one or more midwestern states.Ok, you forced my hand... 6106 (B) (11) provides an exemption whereby a firearm may be carried in a vehicle if one is licensed to carry. Semantics aside, you need a CCW to carry in a car. http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=18&div=0&chpt=61&sctn=6&subsctn=0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted March 14, 2016 Cowpoke. Ha. Not sure how NFA factors in here, but I understood PA to consider open carry whilst in a car to be concealed and thus necessitating a concealed carry permit. I don't have a reference handy. Sorry, I meant "UFA." Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act. There are one or more states that say having a firearm in a car is concealment. That has NEVER been mentioned in PA. Do you know how many dozens of times I have posted 6106 (b) here? You've gotta be kidding me. I've been EDUCATING people since I joined here that you need a license to transport a firearm in a conveyance in Pennsylvania (with exceptions). I probably taught YOU. That does not equal having a gun in a car means the gun is carried concealed. Well, not in Pennsylvania anyway. That's like saying, "Well, the reason you can only make reasonable deviations in Jersey is because if you make a deviation then the gun is loaded with bullets. Here, see this? It says only reasonable deviations. That's because a deviation makes the gun loaded. A gun in a car becomes loaded if there is a deviation." 1 + 2 does not prove 4. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekend_junkie 129 Posted March 15, 2016 Sorry, I meant "UFA." Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act. There are one or more states that say having a firearm in a car is concealment. That has NEVER been mentioned in PA. Do you know how many dozens of times I have posted 6106 (b) here? You've gotta be kidding me. I've been EDUCATING people since I joined here that you need a license to transport a firearm in a conveyance in Pennsylvania (with exceptions). I probably taught YOU. That does not equal having a gun in a car means the gun is carried concealed. Well, not in Pennsylvania anyway. That's like saying, "Well, the reason you can only make reasonable deviations in Jersey is because if you make a deviation then the gun is loaded with bullets. Here, see this? It says only reasonable deviations. That's because a deviation makes the gun loaded. A gun in a car becomes loaded if there is a deviation." 1 + 2 does not prove 4. Dude, check your ego at the door. Analogies and semantics aside, it seems that you concur a CCW is necessary to carry a firearm on your person while in a car. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted March 15, 2016 Dude, check your ego at the door. Analogies and semantics aside, it seems that you concur a CCW is necessary to carry a firearm on your person while in a car. No, I don't. I taught you it is required to TRANSPORT a handgun, SBR, AOW, or Machinegun (firearm for the purposes of this section, not to include long guns). Or any type of firearm in Philly, or during a state of emergency (which PA is in more often than not, and is now.) With defined exceptions. The law says "carry," I agree, but it's very important that you, as a n00b, understand that you can't have a handgun in the car without a permit to carry from any state. Not even unloaded in the trunk. That's why I prefer the term "transport" for dealing with Jerseyites, just to keep it short and to the point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GAPP 11 Posted March 15, 2016 I did quite a bit of research into the open carry issue in PA and wrote out my findings to benefit my students effected by the law change (verified by two lawyer and confirmed by the state attorney generals office as factual)... you can look at it here www.gappnj.com/pistol/open_carry_in_pa Pizza Bob is correct, you need a permit to carry in a vehicle or any other mode of transport (motorcycle, bicycle, horse drawn carriage, etc) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carl_g 568 Posted March 15, 2016 No person, even the holder of a license to carry a firearm, may carry a loaded long gun in a vehicle. In addition, Pennsylvania law provides that “any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle…without a valid and lawfully issued license…commits a felony.” This rule does not apply to: Those traveling to or from target shooting, if the firearm is unloaded with the cartridges or shells carried in a separate container; Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed firearm; Agents, messengers, or employees of banks or businesses whose duties require them to protect money or other valuable property in the discharge of their duties; Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms or the agent of such person, having in his or her possession, using, or carrying a firearm in the usual course of business; Any person carrying an unloaded firearm in a secure wrapper between certain places, including the place of purchase or repair to his or her home or place of business, or when moving from one home or business to another; Any person licensed to hunt or fish, if he or she is actually hunting or fishing; A person training dogs during the regular training season; Any person carrying a firearm in a vehicle who possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the U.S. or any other state; A person who had a license to possess a firearm that expired within six months before his or her date of arrest, if the person is otherwise eligible for renewal of the license; and Any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a firearm and who is operating a vehicle which is registered in the person’s name or the name of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which a license has been issued to the spouse or parent owning the firearm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted March 15, 2016 I did quite a bit of research into the open carry issue in PA and wrote out my findings to benefit my students effected by the law change (verified by two lawyer and confirmed by the state attorney generals office as factual)... you can look at it here www.gappnj.com/pistol/open_carry_in_pa Pizza Bob is correct, you need a permit to carry in a vehicle or any other mode of transport (motorcycle, bicycle, horse drawn carriage, etc) He was not correct, and nobody disputed it was illegal to carry in a vehicle without a permit (with exceptions). If you feel differently, provide a quotation as an example. <p> No person, even the holder of a license to carry a firearm, may carry a loaded long gun in a vehicle. In addition, Pennsylvania law provides that “any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle…without a valid and lawfully issued license…commits a felony.” This rule does not apply to: Those traveling to or from target shooting, if the firearm is unloaded with the cartridges or shells carried in a separate container; Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed firearm; Agents, messengers, or employees of banks or businesses whose duties require them to protect money or other valuable property in the discharge of their duties; Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms or the agent of such person, having in his or her possession, using, or carrying a firearm in the usual course of business; Any person carrying an unloaded firearm in a secure wrapper between certain places, including the place of purchase or repair to his or her home or place of business, or when moving from one home or business to another; Any person licensed to hunt or fish, if he or she is actually hunting or fishing; A person training dogs during the regular training season; Any person carrying a firearm in a vehicle who possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the U.S. or any other state; A person who had a license to possess a firearm that expired within six months before his or her date of arrest, if the person is otherwise eligible for renewal of the license; and Any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a firearm and who is operating a vehicle which is registered in the person’s name or the name of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which a license has been issued to the spouse or parent owning the firearm. Three things. First, nobody said it was legal to carry a LOADED long gun in a vehicle. Quote anybody in this thread that said that. It is a summary offense (usually a ticket, but worse is possible) and also a violation of fish and game regulation (a ticket). Except in Philly or during a state of emergency, where even an unloaded gun is an issue. Pro tip (Again) - PA is usually in a state of emergency. You can't bring your long arm to PA right now (with exceptions), sorry. Second, you are using two different definitions of firearms. The law you quoted only applies to handguns, SBRs, SBS, machineguns, and AOWs. "firearms" does not mean long guns in that section. Third, carrying a handgun concealed or transporting in a car is not a felony by default. It is a felony if you have no LTCF and are not qualified to get one if you needed one. It is normally a misdemeanor if you simply have no LTCF. If you need me to explain anything else about what you posted, let me know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites