Background checks - a VERY interesting read.

[Howard 538]

A very interesting read about background checks, how they are almost worthless to stop criminals, are not truly enforced by the government, and are used to take away rights they promised not to. Well worth reading be you either for or against them:

 

http://www.dolpress.com/news/2016/3/27/explaining-the-objections-to-background-checks

 

The article is very long but very interesting and I urge all to read it.

 

I found these two paragraphs particularly interesting.

 

 

Background checks are sold to the public as a means of ensuring that “folks who shouldn’t have guns can’t get them.”  But that doesn’t happen.  According to the Department of Justice, 2010 saw 72,659 denials… out of 6,037,394 NICS checks.  That means only 1.2% of all attempted commercial purchases were denied.

Of those 72,659 denials, 47% (or 34,459 people) were under felony indictment or had a felony conviction, 19% (or 13,862) were fugitives, and 11% (or 7,666) were prohibited by their state law.  However, only 13 of them were ever successful prosecuted.

That’s not a typo; there’s no missing percent sign.  13 people out of 55,987 faced justice for violating the background check laws – translating to 55,974 felons, fugitives, and other denied parties simply going about their business that year.  This hardly seems like an effective public safety tool.

 

[mipafox 438]

Not buying those numbers. The results may have popped up that way on the computer, but most denials are mistakes.

[silverado427 10,680]

The way I read it we  "  need to Outlaw politicians. "

[Howard 538]

Not buying those numbers. The results may have popped up that way on the computer, but most denials are mistakes.

Well even if you don't buy the percentages it is still telling that only 13 people out of over 6 million nics checks were prosecuted.  Just further proof that either the government is totally inept or criminals don't submit to nics checks - or both.

[JT Custom Guns 956]

Good read - Thanks!

[Scorpio64 5,147]

Well even if you don't buy the percentages it is still telling that only 13 people out of over 6 million nics checks were prosecuted.  Just further proof that either the government is totally inept or criminals don't submit to nics checks - or both.

 

Those figures are more or less in line with the data presented during the second attempt at an AWB after Newtown.  It was argued that the scary black guns are used in so few crimes that the number was statistical insignificant compared to the blood lust to take away our guns.  The real problem was people who should not have guns are getting them, many times through the system that is supposed to flag them, even though they were disqualified and the ones that got caught were not prosecuted so there is no real deterrent against trying to buy a firearm through normal channels.  I forget who said it but they were pro 2A, they said more laws will not accomplish anything, especially when the current laws are not being enforced.

 

Our politicians do not want to admit that they are impotent and incompetent, the only thing they can manage to do is take guns (and rights) away from law abiding citizens.  Yes, disarm the people who are not criminals, that will solve everything.

[mipafox 438]

 

Those figures are more or less in line with the data presented during the second attempt at an AWB after Newtown. It was argued that the scary black guns are used in so few crimes that the number was statistical insignificant compared to the blood lust to take away our guns. The real problem was people who should not have guns are getting them, many times through the system that is supposed to flag them, even though they were disqualified and the ones that got caught were not prosecuted so there is no real deterrent against trying to buy a firearm through normal channels. I forget who said it but they were pro 2A, they said more laws will not accomplish anything, especially when the current laws are not being enforced.

 

Our politicians do not want to admit that they are impotent and incompetent, the only thing they can manage to do is take guns (and rights) away from law abiding citizens. Yes, disarm the people who are not criminals, that will solve everything.

 

So, you are proposing gun control. Typical.

[Scorpio64 5,147]

 

 

So, you are proposing gun control. Typical.

 

 

Are you brain damaged or something?

[fumanchu182 23]

Are you dain bramaged or something?

 

[mipafox 438]

Are you brain damaged or something?

"The real problem was people who should not have guns are getting them, many times through the system that is supposed to flag them, even though they were disqualified and the ones that got caught were not prosecuted so there is no real deterrent against trying to buy a firearm through normal channels."

 

You are suggesting gun control is the answer to violence. Specifically, background checks required to own guns.

 

Insulting me won't change what you are.

[NJGF 375]

I think he was saying that the anti's said this after Newtown, not him.

[Howard 538]

Let's all play nice.  It was an interesting article.

[Kevin125 4,772]

I missed the part in there that said there was a vald reason for background checks.

 

Actually, I didn't since there is no valid reason.

 

The part about NYC makes me want to start a war, conquer NYC and free their enslaved gun owner citizens.

 

Good article Howard.

[Albanian 121]

Most crime guns are received through straw purchase or stolen. Background checks provide the illusion of safety. As does most over reaching law.

[siderman 1,137]

Question for an FFL- are you(any/all) obligated to report to the police if a bad guy attempts to make a purchase and fails the check? Or is it assumed, at least in NJ that they will know by default via the call in. What about all the states that dont route the nics calls thru the state, does the FBI call the local cop shop to make an arrest or is it on the FFL?  

[PK90 3,570]

 

 

Question for an FFL- are you(any/all) obligated to report to the police if a bad guy attempts to make a purchase and fails the check?

No

Or is it assumed, at least in NJ that they will know by default via the call in.

Supposedly

What about all the states that dont route the nics calls thru the state, does the FBI call the local cop shop to make an arrest or is it on the FFL?

I've had 4 denials so far in AZ. Not one call or visit from ATF or Local PD.

 

 

 

Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk.

[siderman 1,137]

i suppose the ffl wouldnt know to make a call anyway if there was a bad guy, the call in is either pass/fail right? However i would like to think that if the loser ranked high enough on some watch list a red flag goes off somewhere....

[NJGF 375]

What is amazing is how few denials (justifiable) get looked at or are prosecuted (like less than 100 per year).

[345Sire 158]

No Supposedly I've had 4 denials so far in AZ. Not one call or visit from ATF or Local PD.

 

 

 

Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk.

It's been a while since I filled out the permit forms, so memory is fuzzy. If someone doesn't lie in filling it out, but answers one of the questions that we know will mean a denial, are they in fact violating any statutes? Surely just failing to qualify/pass isn't grounds for charges of some sort? I'd understand if one were to falsify but,,,,

[JT Custom Guns 956]

Question for an FFL- are you(any/all) obligated to report to the police if a bad guy attempts to make a purchase and fails the check? Or is it assumed, at least in NJ that they will know by default via the call in. What about all the states that dont route the nics calls thru the state, does the FBI call the local cop shop to make an arrest or is it on the FFL?  

I do know that if an applicant applies for a HG inside the 30 day rule, he/she gets denied and that goes onto a NJSP report.

The applicant will be contacted (usually within 10 days) by a trooper to explain the situation.

As to denials for other reasons, I always assumed it made it to a report but what happens from there is a mystery..........

[Darrenf 422]

I do know that if an applicant applies for a HG inside the 30 day rule, he/she gets denied and that goes onto a NJSP report.

The applicant will be contacted (usually within 10 days) by a trooper to explain the situation.

As to denials for other reasons, I always assumed it made it to a report but what happens from there is a mystery..........

Do you mean applies for a P2P or tries to actually purchase a handgun?

[JT Custom Guns 956]

People who have a HG permit in hand, but tried to use one before the 

30 day time period had past............

[raz-0 1,259]

Not buying those numbers. The results may have popped up that way on the computer, but most denials are mistakes.

 

 

Based on other stuff I have read, and talking to FFLs, I agree. However the mistaken denials come up as something, and those percents are what they come up as, even if the net result is actually misidentification rather than a criminal attempt to purchase a firearm. 

 

I can't find it right now, but I have read a better write up on the issue that gets into that. IIRC the numbers were something like prosecuting one in 11,000. 

 

The other part this article plays fast and loose with is if the goal is to get convictions or the goal is to keep those people from being sold a firearm. If just the latter, it is not the failure it looks like. However, I would suggest that even the leftest lefty regards the purpose as crime reduction to some extent, and at that it fails horribly.